The Goodwin Plank and Magie are TRIMMED!

[danmckee]

3rd Party grading has hit an alltime low, these 2 cards are obviously hacked. You grading fanatics should see this nightmare and realize there is major problems with 3rd party grading.

I am shocked that the Scott I know would slab these 2 hack jobs.

What an embarrassment!


3rd party grading is a CANCER AND A JOKE!

Sincerely,

Dan Mckee

[FrankWakefield]

+1. Sincerely, too. Frank

[danmckee]

Frank my friend, I must say thank you as you are always the first one in to thank me on controversial subjects!

[FrankWakefield]

Dan, I think that anytime I'm with you on something you can safely assume that you're out on a limb and in the minority view. Many times right; but in the minority.

Someone posted that they perceived the Wagner card overgraded; I actually thought it to be a pretty good looking card. Were I to have megabucks dumped into my lap, that card would be more than good enough for me.

[danmckee]

Yes Frank!! the Wagner is a decent looking card and just a hair over graded and not nearly the biggest problem here. But... a hair over graded on a Wagner = major dollars!!!!

But yes, I agree with you

and yes, I am always in the minority

and yes, I am not always right but when I am, I am still attacked

and yes, I love my hobby and I hate, hate the garbage 3rd party grading which is an absolute comical joke!

[Gradedcardman]

Dan, is the rear of the Magie also showing some signs of paper loss or is it fading ?

By the way, look forward to seeing you in Baltimore. Enjoyed meeting you and purchasing some T206's for my collection from you in Chicago.

[danmckee]

Hi Adam, there will be some huge raw scans posted soon of these cards. I look forward to seeing you in Baltimore unless 1 of the death threats I have received from trashing the 3rd party grading comes through, when big money is involved and theft, people's lives are in danger.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I thnk the Wagner has a nice clean overall appearance and looks OK in a 3 holder. I look forward to Dan's further posts on the Plank and Magee.

[atx840]

Originally Posted by danmckee

Hi Adam, there will be some huge raw scans posted soon of these cards.

Looking forward to these.

[bbsports]

When you get a chance, check out the bottom edge Joe Doyle SGC 84. I've never seen a bottom edge like that. It's very unique.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bbsports

When you get a chance, check out the bottom edge Joe Doyle SGC 84. I've never seen a bottom edge like that. It's very unique.

Could that just be that the card is slightly bowed so it looks curved in two dimensions?

[E93]

Originally Posted by bbsports

When you get a chance, check out the bottom edge Joe Doyle SGC 84. I've never seen a bottom edge like that. It's very unique.

Looks like a slight tilt cut. That it matches on top and bottom suggests it is not tampered with imho.
JimB

[botn]

Originally Posted by danmckee

.

I am shocked that the Scott I know would slab these 2 hack jobs.

Do we know that it was Scott who actually graded these cards?

Greg

[Gradedcardman]

Well Dan, I am hopeful that we both make it to Baltimore !! I have learned over the last 12 months of active Net54 surfing to keep my cool. Quite a few on hear that like to push buttons. Amazing how easy that is over the net versus in person. Its like a costume party where no one knows you !!

[Moonlight Graham]

Originally Posted by danmckee

3rd Party grading has hit an alltime low, these 2 cards are obviously hacked. You grading fanatics should see this nightmare and realize there is major problems with 3rd party grading.

I am shocked that the Scott I know would slab these 2 hack jobs.

What an embarrassment!

And to the double top secret chat board that has a field day on me where I can't defend myself, please tell me that the Piedmont 150 Plank that can only be hand cut and is blatantly hacked and the Magie that is blatantly hacked are properly graded??????????????????????????

3rd party grading is a CANCER AND A JOKE!

Sincerely,

Dan Mckee

dan' i'm not really sure why you call 3rd party grading a joke. every card i own is professionally graded. i try to buy the best condition of dead ball era stars that i can afford and i worry about counterfeits. i'm not educated enough to tell the difference myself. i know there are a lot of inconsistencies in the actual grades but do you think they actually slab fakes? i'm not trying to be a wise guy but i would like to hear your point of view on this-maybe i can get a different insight because i am brainwashed to have all cards graded-thanks and i look forward to your response!

[murcerfan]

profiteers and one eyed pirates...and secret handshakes and lies and drama and shit.

...........what a hobby.

[Vintagecatcher]

Dan and Frank,

You are not alone. A few of us have been around prior to this slabbing nightmare. Many of these new collectors think that if a card is graded by one of the top grading companies then the card must be original, and must not be altered. Many of these collectors have put a "blind faith" in these third party grading companies.

The only thing that third party grading/slabbing has done is drive up card prices for collectors. They created a false sense of security for naive collectors. Not only did they milk these collectors for slabbing fees...they then introduced "half grades" to continue the revenue stream further. Then they added their card registries to further inflate card prices as greedy collectors competed against one another.

This is just my humble opinion. I'm sure many will state how wonderful 3rd party grading has been for the hobby. I'm not buying that load of crap.

Patrick McMenemy

[Moonlight Graham]

Originally Posted by Vintagecatcher

Dan and Frank,

You are not alone. A few of us have been around prior to this slabbing nightmare. Many of these new collectors think that if a card is graded by one of the top grading companies then the card must be original, and must not be altered. Many of these collectors have put a "blind faith" in these third party grading companies.

The only thing that third party grading/slabbing has done is drive up card prices for collectors. They created a false sense of security for naive collectors. Not only did they milk these collectors for slabbing fees...they then introduced "half grades" to continue the revenue stream further. Then they added their card registries to further inflate card prices as greedy collectors competed against one another.

This is just my humble opinion. I'm sure many will state how wonderful 3rd party grading has been for the hobby. I'm not buying that load of crap.

Patrick McMenemy

patrick, i agree with you about "naive collectors" and "blind faith" because that describes me! but on the flip side, don't you guys think that old time collectors, and collections for that matter, now benefit from third party grading? if a collector has some really old and rare cards and wants to get rid of them, the auction house he chooses will most likely get them graded and authenticated if they feel the collection is worth big money. then the seller really benefits even if he didn't believe in having them graded himself. i'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you but just making a point of how a collector and future consignor could benefit from third party grading. eventually we probably will all part with our collections.

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by murcerfan

profiteers and one eyed pirates...and secret handshakes and lies and drama and shit.

...........what a hobby.

and don't forget about the death threats too!!!!

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Moonlight Graham

dan' i'm not really sure why you call 3rd party grading a joke. every card i own is professionally graded. i try to buy the best condition of dead ball era stars that i can afford and i worry about counterfeits. i'm not educated enough to tell the difference myself. i know there are a lot of inconsistencies in the actual grades but do you think they actually slab fakes? i'm not trying to be a wise guy but i would like to hear your point of view on this-maybe i can get a different insight because i am brainwashed to have all cards graded-thanks and i look forward to your response!

Well, the obvious answer -- one which really doesn't depend upon whether you agree with third-party grading or not -- is to educate yourself so that you can make your own determinations. Are fakes slabbed? Yes, but hopefully not often. Do they miss altered cards? Yes, sometimes that happens too. Do they misgrade cards? According to lots of sellers on ebay, that appears to happen frequently, although very few cards seem to be overgraded

I'm not a huge fan of third-party grading, although I've certainly had many cards graded. Obviously, it has some utility in terms of allowing a person who can't see the card in person to form an opinion about the card's characteristics. However, relying upon the opinion of someone else should be in addition to, not in lieu of, obtaining knowledge about the card in question. Slavish reliance upon any third-party grader to tell you what you may be buying is very much a mistake IMO.

[CW]

Thread needs links. The Plank is a very intriguing card!

Plank.

Magie

It is interesting to note that both Goodwin and SGC knew they were poking a hornet's nest (so to speak) by giving this Plank a numerical grade. It seems they were very careful when grading it under such scrutiny from the hobby community.

As noted in the auction...

To safely assure you that the previously stated SGC grading process for this incredible T206 Plank heirloom is completely accurate, we are proud to post the following statement from BOTH SGC’s renowned president and head grader:



“When learning Bill Goodwin had a T206 Piedmont Plank, we clearly informed him that the card had to be hand-cut from a scrapper sheet and similar to the other handful that exist, would receive an “Authentic” assessment. Only ironclad circumstances relating to no evidence of trimming, whatsoever, could possibly enable us to encapsulate the card with a numerical grade. After scouring the card for what appeared to be an infinite amount of time, our unwavering opinion was to assign the current SGC 70/5.5 grade since not a shred of evidence relating to trimming exists under our finest magnification process. We stand by this card’s factory cut origin and vouch with 100% certainty that it was not hand-cut”.

€hû¢k Wölƒƒ

[Vintagecatcher]

Moonlight,

A seller would certainly benefit from having a collection graded when selling because people have "bought" into the myth that graded cards are what the grading companies say they are. That assumption can be and sometimes is a mistake. People are buying the grade and not the card.


Patrick

[Moonlight Graham]

Originally Posted by Vintagecatcher

Moonlight,

A seller would certainly benefit from having a collection graded when selling because people have "bought" into the myth that graded cards are what the grading companies say they are. That assumption can be and sometimes is a mistake. People are buying the grade and not the card.


Patrick

that's a good point patrick! unfortunately you described me again......most of the time

[Runscott]

Well, if it's not a Plank that's 'new' to the hobby, which one is it? Hey Chris...

[atx840]

What about a rebacked SC, although that is a risky move?

[ScottFandango]

have you EVER made a post that doesnt deal with "trimmed cards being in a TPG holder"?

you have to bee the biggest broken record on this site..

we know you HATE TPGs and they only slab trimmed cards...

geesh...broken record

[FrankWakefield]

Time for ScottFandango to have his real name with each of his posts, I think.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Time for ScottFandango to have his real name with each of his posts, I think.

I agree Frank, we need Leon on this one!

[FrankWakefield]

Gotta be careful, Greg. Leon might call you a cry baby.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Gotta be careful, Greg. Leon might call you a cry baby.

ScottFandango's name is Scott Fandango.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ScottFandango

have you EVER made a post that doesnt deal with "trimmed cards being in a TPG holder"?

you have to bee the biggest broken record on this site..

we know you HATE TPGs and they only slab trimmed cards...

geesh...broken record

Don't shoot the messenger. I think Dan has raised issues worth discussing, given that no factory-cut Piedmont Plank has previously been documented (to the best of my knowledge); that we know nothing about provenance; and that the lower left corner on the large scan looks funky to some of us.

[glynparson]

In my opinion Those cards are an abomination. My problem with 3rd party grading is it was supposed to clean up the hobby and root out all the card doctors. But I think All it really did was get rid of the hacks and make the good ones rich. I feel tHIS IS ESPECIALLY TRUE at PSA AFTER THE PAY RATE FOR GRADERS WAS SLASHED BY ABOUT 50-75%. i ACTUALLY THINK MANY EARLY PSA GRAded cards are less messed with however they tend to be " overgraded" by the unrealistic standards of today. A true qualified grading service would be a blessing but it wont happen.



Sorry bumped caps lock button.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I agree with you re early PSA grades. In the early days of grading it was still possible to find a fair number of high grade, unaltered raw cards. At some point, with a relatively efficient market, the supply of those diminished as more and more were graded. So if there continues to be a steady influx of high grade cards coming out of the grading services, it seems reasonable to infer that more and more are altered in some way.

[RGold]

Peter, since my email is still down, Bryant's downtown for real KC BBQ, Oklahoma Joe's in the suburbs for generic BBQ, and Jack's Stack on the Plaza for upscale fine dining BBQ. Some also like Gate's.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by RGold

Peter, since my email is still down, Bryant's downtown for real KC BBQ, Oklahoma Joe's in the suburbs for generic BBQ, and Jack's Stack on the Plaza for upscale fine dining BBQ. Some also like Gate's.

Bring a defibrillator if you go to Bryants.

The Jack Stack out in Martin City is the best barbecue in the KC area, in my opinion - hands down. The rib sampler plate is pretty amazing.