Undocumented T206 Variations: Matty Black Cap

[Runscott]

Okay, I'm through sulking.

I mentioned a while back that I would be posting about Matty black cap variations (I was waiting to find another of the type on the left, and now I have). It should be no surprise that there are various versions of this card - it's one of the most common HOF'er cards. Here are two ends of the spectrum of what I've found in the 13+ that I've owned. The card on the right is what I normally looked for in this card - nice dark colors. The one on the left looks a bit different - there is at least one glaring item that, once you've become aware of it, you'll always look for it in this card. Guesses?

[ethicsprof]

the green background is lower(in relationship to the glove) in the brownish
colored Matty.????

all the best,
barry

[CW]

My guess would be the slightly darker shadow found in the blue sky, just to the left of Matty's head (much more evident on the card to the right).

[asoriano]

Other than Matty's belt, the "NY" logo, and and the partial letters "rk" in York being brown rather than black, I'm not really seeing it.

[atx840]

Brown layer looks black!

[CW]

If y'all don't mind, I'd just like to use this thread as yet another reason to try out my new scanner and show more cards.

[Jaybird]

Top shirt button "appears" bigger in the one on left.

[Piratedogcardshows]

The angle of his eye's looks different to me.The right appears to be looking straight on as the left appears to be looking slightly upward.

[mrvster]

SCott!!

YES...this is what i'm talking about......you are the man glad to see you get us thinking

card on left:
1)What's the blue line in the bottom lower right border?? by the name caption??

also- small uniform line missing ???or very light in the pant leg??might not be significant??


my guesses besides the obvious color difference(lighter uniform, sky)

barry is right about the green back ground...chris and the rest...all great observations...


TELL US SCOTT

[Mikehealer]

The one on the left has a couple of minor creases.

Just kidding, you can see more of the whites of his eyes in the one on the left.

[ethicsprof]

sorry wrong thread for this comment.
best, barry

[frankbmd]

One black, one brown

The blotch and the brown belt go together.

Sample size 2. Yours and mine

[fkw]

scan both of the original cards with the same scanner. looks like the one on the left had the contrast adjusted a bit, its too white, while the one on the right looks normal. The captions on all T206 cards should be a brown color never black like the line around the image directly above caption (Ive never seen an authentic card with pure black caption)


wonder if some of the print variations were different series ie 150, 350, 460 etc. Im not an expert on which series this card is even found in, but that may have something to to with the color variations.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by fkw

scan both of the original cards with the same scanner. looks like the one on the left had the contrast adjusted a bit, its too white, while the one on the right looks normal. The captions on all T206 cards should be a brown color never black like the line around the image directly above caption (Ive never seen an authentic card with pure black caption)


wonder if some of the print variations were different series ie 150, 350, 460 etc. Im not an expert on which series this card is even found in, but that may have something to to with the color variations.

Hi Frank, I don't have the card on the left in hand yet, and that's a good point - the brown/back difference is currently highlighted unfairly.

The series thought is a good guess, but I only have 350 and 350/460 black caps, and the differences overlap both of those series. I'll admit I'm dumb in this area, but does the fact that the black cap was a superprint mean that it was printed in ALL series? Because I haven't found any 150 examples.

I also noticed that there are some color similarities between the white cap and the black cap on the left. I honestly don't know what any of this might mean about printing order, etc., but thought perhaps someone might.

[tedzan]

Here are the different Matty cards in my collection. They were scanned from the same scanner. Check out the subtle difference in the background coloring of these cards.















Best regards,

TED Z

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Here are the different Matty cards in my collection. They were scanned from the same scanner. Check out the subtle difference in the background coloring of these cards.















Best regards,

TED Z

Hey Scott

I think Frank (FKW) is on to something in his previous post here.

The 7 cards of Matty that I show here were all printed by American Lithographic circa 1910. There are subtle differences, but nothing too significant.

You may find that the Matty (dark cap) cards printed at the tail-end of the T206 press runs (circa Spring 1911) were printed with a different shades of inks.

These would include Matty's with the following backs........

PIEDMONT 460 factory 42

SWEET CAPORAL 460 factory 42


NOTE....this Matty was not printed with the UZIT back or the AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 factory 42 back.


TED Z

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey Scott

I think Frank (FKW) is on to something in his previous post here.

The 7 cards of Matty that I show here were all printed by American Lithographic circa 1910. There are subtle differences, but nothing too significant.

You may find that the Matty (dark cap) cards printed at the tail-end of the T206 press runs (circa Spring 1911) were printed with a different shades of inks.

These would include Matty's with the following backs........

PIEDMONT 460 factory 42

SWEET CAPORAL 460 factory 42


NOTE....this Matty was not printed with the UZIT back or the AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 factory 42 back.


TED Z

Okay, but I don't have any 460 images - all of mine were either 350 or 350/460, or undefined.

[atx840]

The Ritchie proof has faint dove clouds.

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Example the cards below can be found with all sorts of degrees of clouds, glove colors, redness in cheeks etc. i.e. Ritchey/Doves.




Cheers,

John

[Runscott]

Brian, thanks for posting.

My intention, and I forgot to mention it - was to ask others to post cards that they saw as intentional variations, so definitely not a de-rail.

I never noticed the Ritchie dove before, but I think this is similar to the Matty halo...but maybe not. Since the dove was in the proof, I would see a change as intentional if we found dark blue Ritchie cards without doves, but the 'without dove' cards are all light blue.

[Brian Weisner]

Hi Scott,
I agree the Ritchey wasn't changed from it's original "proof", but I it appears that the printers weren't happy with the first run and increased the amount of ink to bring out the "Dove".... Check out the Owen Wilson card too... Nice Orange and Yellow versions....
Be well Brian

PS I posted this on the old board sometime in 2005 or 2006... Then Tim and Jamie Hull produced a wonderful thread on it again in 2009....Check it out...

Hi Chris,
Nice McQuillians.... I don't have any in my Photobucket, but will post some when I get home....

[wonkaticket]

I’m with Brian on this one cards can have all sorts of subtle differences. If you were to collect all these subtle differences you would have tens of thousands of cards and still be finding them. Still very cool though!

Chris posted some good ones of mine that show this I have some others I’ll dig up later.

Ted, sweet Mattewson’s! BTW you may have missed me saying congrats on your pickup of a Magie card in the other thread. Congrats I know you were looking for one. Details what shape did you score nice one?

My few Matthewson’s….



Cheers,

John

[Gradedcardman]

As I don't have the quantity of cards to show as some of the guys here, it does seem that that the colors are more "cloudy" the less sharp the print is. Just observing some of the various examples shown it looks as if the sharper the print the less color variations you see. I am sure this does not hold true 100% of the time but seems to be a pattern.

Beautiful cards John and Brian !! As always thanks for sharing !!

Adam

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Gradedcardman

As I don't have the quantity of cards to show as some of the guys here, it does seem that that the colors are more "cloudy" the less sharp the print is. Just observing some of the various examples shown it looks as if the sharper the print the less color variations you see. I am sure this does not hold true 100% of the time but seems to be a pattern.

Beautiful cards John and Brian !! As always thanks for sharing !!

Adam

Adam - I think this is because the one on the left has more of the 'image definition' black color, and the one on the right has more of the 'richness' colors - blues/greens/reds/browns, etc. - and less black.

[Theoldprofessor]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Okay, I'm through sulking.

I mentioned a while back that I would be posting about Matty black cap variations (I was waiting to find another of the type on the left, and now I have). It should be no surprise that there are various versions of this card - it's one of the most common HOF'er cards. Here are two ends of the spectrum of what I've found in the 13+ that I've owned. The card on the right is what I normally looked for in this card - nice dark colors. The one on the left looks a bit different - there is at least one glaring item that, once you've become aware of it, you'll always look for it in this card. Guesses?

Matty's gloved hand in the darker one seems to lack any detail.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Theoldprofessor

Matty's gloved hand in the darker one seems to lack any detail.

Aha! And this goes along with what I said earlier: the black is more pronounced in the left image, and brown added in the right. I'm really looking forward to getting this card in hand and re-scanning both of them together. I'll also loop them very carefully.

The older 13 cards that I had were collected for registration and condition, as I liked all versions of this card and wasn't looking for anything specific.

These 2 new ones were collected as extreme examples of each type (but now I need a 'purple background' one as well), so they should yield the most information once in hand.