JOE DOYLE variations(T206)

[stina]

does anyone know why psa does not recognize all variations of the joe doyle t206 card, and does anyone else have a partial "Y" missing dot variaton like me. i have only heard of two others that exsit, but have not been verified. psa did not recognize my variation but did rate it at "PSA 4". it seems that they did not increase or diminish the valueation due to the partial "Y" misssing dot.!

[T206.org]

As far as I know, PSA (and SGC?) only recognizes T206 "errors" that are in the Standard Catalog, and based on the 2012 catalog release, that didn't include any of Bob Lemke's T206 updates, it's going to be a while, if ever, before any new entries are made.

[egbeachley]

If you start to include every difference resulting from the degradation of the printing plates, missing colors, lighter colors, etc., then you could almost call every card a variation.

In my opinion, a variation needs to be where the plates were specifically and/or deliberately changed by someone.

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

In my opinion, a variation needs to be where the plates were specifically and/or deliberately changed by someone.

I agree with Eric 100% on the above statement. The "N.Y. Nat'l" and "N.Y." examples are variations. Everything else that I have seen proposed as a new variation is a print anomaly.

Also the scarcity of Doyle N.Y. front/back combos has been greatly exaggerated in previous threads.

[stina]

Quote:
Originally Posted by egbeachley
In my opinion, a variation needs to be where the plates were specifically and/or deliberately changed by someone.

the plates were specifically and/or deliberately changed. the "N.Y.." (double dot) was created when they tried to file of the "NAT'l" from the plate. the second dot was created when the bottom portion of the "N" was not fully filed. the "partial Y missing dot" was created when they specifically and/or deliberately tried filing off the extra dot from previous attempts to file the "NAT'L". finally they specifically and/or deliberately got it right and made the "N.Y."

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by stina

Quote:
Originally Posted by egbeachley
In my opinion, a variation needs to be where the plates were specifically and/or deliberately changed by someone.

the plates were specifically and/or deliberately changed. the "N.Y.." (double dot) was created when they tried to file of the "NAT'l" from the plate. the second dot was created when the bottom portion of the "N" was not fully filed. the "partial Y missing dot" was created when they specifically and/or deliberately tried filing off the extra dot from previous attempts to file the "NAT'L". finally they specifically and/or deliberately got it right and made the "N.Y."

That's a very interesting take, one worth considering. In the field of coin collecting, early American coins exhibit flaws that were caused by the dies as they were compromised from continued use. As the die cracks got larger, the corresponding flaws on the coins got larger too. And collectors do go after these various die states.

So you could make the argument that the different states of the Doyle card could be collected too. Of course, some documentation would be useful here, such as good images of the card in its various states. Would collectors be interested in acquiring an example of each of these Doyles? Only time will tell. But I found the idea provocative.

[tedzan]

The Joe Doyle card is tougher to find than most T206 commons simply because many of the cards were acquired by scammers
back in the mid-1980's in an attempt to modify this card by adding the "Nat'l" lettering to its caption, in order to replicate the
very scarce Joe Doyle error card. Some very professionally altered cards were good enough, in that they fooled the Grader's.
One such graded fake example still exists in circulation with a POLAR BEAR back. To date, only 8 - legitimate Doyle error cards
have been found. The printers caught this error very quickly; therefore, the Joe Doyle error card will be found ONLY with the
PIEDMONT 350 back.






The following is a survey excerpted from a prior thread (Sept 2007) regarding the "printer's mark" found on some Joe Doyle cards.
Thread......
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...slow+joe+doyle

Also, included here is the current SGC pop report of the T206 Joe Doyle card.


Posted by........Ted Zanidakis 9/26/2007


v.....UPDATED SURVEY......9/25/2007.....v

T-brand.................Mark.......No-Mark...........Current SGC Joe Doyle pop report


Piedmont 350............. 7 .......... 29 ...................................... 32

Sweet Cap 350 f30...... 4 .......... 37 ...................................... 52

Polar Bear.................. 2 .......... 17 ...................................... 10

Old Mill...................... 1 ........... 5 ........................................ 4

Tolstoi....................... 0 .......... 1 ......................................... 2

Sovereign 350............. 0 .......... 2 ......................................... 5

EPDG......................... 0 .......... 1 ......................................... 2
________________________________

Totals...................... 14 ......... 94




TED Z

[cfc1909]

This is not totally accurate


[QUOTE=tedzan;933167]The Joe Doyle card is tougher to find than most T206 commons simply because many of the cards were acquired by scammers
back in the mid-1980's in an attempt to modify this card by adding the "Nat'l" lettering to its caption, in order to replicate the
very scarce Joe Doyle error card. [QUOTE=tedzan;933167]




The reason the Doyle card is tougher to acquire is because the card was only printed with 8 backs and other cards from the same series can be found with approximately 20 backs.

Backs the Doyle can be found with

EPDG
Old Mill BBS
Piedmont
Polar Bear
Sovereign apple green
Sweet Caporal 350 factory 25
Sweet Caporal 350 factory 30
Tolstoi

[JeremyW]

If you do a forum search for "survey doyle variation" you'll find a very interesting and informative thread started by Ted Z. regarding the various Doyle variations & printing marks.

[bbsports]

I have the Doyle variation with the extra dot after the N.Y. in a PSA 4.5 & PSA only looks at it as just a common Joe Doyle.