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#1
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Satchell Paige, Bill Veeck rookie cards?--Genuine?--See update/thread #10.
As a hall of fame collector, I recently picked up these three, all tough to get.
They were advertised as "1948 Team Issued Photo Pack," and indeed they are photos. I inquired where they came from, and the seller told me: "I bought these several years ago from a private collector, along with other Indians cards-he said his father got them after the 1948 season and kept them in a large envelope that had only been opened about 2 or 3 times-it is why they are in such pristine condition." Now, I'm very happy with them as I had no Bill Veecks and only one Satchell Paige, and I got them for a song. But I'm curious as to how such "team issues" are regarded, generally speaking, within the hobby. And specifically, would this be considered a Satchell Paige rookie card? Ditto, Bill Veeck? Are they even officially regarded as cards? Thanks for your expertise. Doug Last edited by dougscats; 04-07-2011 at 10:36 AM. Reason: new information |
#2
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I think what you'll find is that rookie card collectors make their own choices about how to define a rookie card - you'll find collectors all over the map on any number of questions (what constitutes a card, does a minor league issue count, etc.). You need to decide what is a satisfying definition for your collection.
Perhaps Phil, Dan and some of our other rookie card collectors can share their definitions and that may help your decision. |
#3
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The Standard Catalog identifies them as the "1948 Cleveland Indians Picture Pack".....33 photos.
I have collected the various team issues (Boston Red Sox, Brooklyn Dodgers, Cleveland Indians, New York Giants, and New York Yankees) from 1947 to 1951. They are tough to find, especially in nice condition, but are great collectibles representing a great era in BB. And, many of these photos were the source pictures for the early Bowman cards. TED Z |
#4
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What I generally go by with the odd issues in my rookie card/collectibles collection, is that if they fall in the same year or earlier than what is typically considered the player's rookie card, I will credit it as a rookie(or pre-rookie) in my HOF Rookie collection. Notice, I'm not using the term earliest issue as rookie card. For me a rookie must meet certain criteria. 1)Nationally released item. 2)Major League item. 3)pack available(no team sets). 4)no other players featured on the card(no team cards).. Obviously my criteria is alot different for pr-war issues, at that point I generally go by first individual issue.. When it comes to executives and the such, I general go by first release, regardless of regional/national/team. I believe the '48 is Veeck's first release, I myself have the '49 wide pen photopack that used the same photos, plus 3 unreleased proofs/test photos including Wynn(I'm really not 100% sure what these 3 are though). These are just personal preferences though when it comes to rookies.
Last edited by novakjr; 04-07-2011 at 09:40 AM. |
#5
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That's what I love about collecting RC's; the research, definition, variety, etc. It's much more rewarding (to me at least) than just checking cards off of a list. As has been said before on this forum: to each their own!!
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Dan |
#6
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Speaking only of the Indians issues, because those are the ones I collect, I can say that it's not hard at all to find them in very nice condition. Complete sets were issued in envelopes and often are found still in them in almost untouched condition. When I was putting together my collection and found off-condition examples, I always passed because I knew near-pristine ones were readily available. Can't speak to how other team issues were packaged.
Complete sets of Indians issues aren't tough to find and usually can be picked up in their original envelopes for $50-$75. I've never considered these to be cards. Last edited by Rob D.; 04-07-2011 at 09:51 AM. |
#7
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Complete sets were issued in envelopes and often are found still in them in almost untouched condition.
Rob--- Would you say 95% of them are that way?
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I've learned that I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it. |
#8
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Genuine or not?
Thanks for all your input.
I checked out the Standard Catalog, Ted, and the ones I have are less than half the size of the specifications in the book [Mine measure 2 1/2" x 3 1/2" rather than the 6 1/2" x 9" specified in the Catalog]. Now the seller listed them as a "Photo Pack" as opposed to the Catalog's "Picture Pack." To tell you the truth, I was surprised when I got these--they're real cards, cardboard--I'd been expecting the bigger, paper photographs. So, now I'm left with the question as to whether these are genuine 1948, or whether, more probably, they were reprinted. I'm suspecting they are reprints, as they measure exactly the same as the cookie-cutter dimensions of almost all cards since 1957, and I don't think that those exact dimensions were ever used before 1957. Would a black-light help me here? Thanks again. Doug |
#9
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Doug, I don't know any collectors who would consider those cards. However, if you change your definition to "rookie collectibles" you're all set! I believe Beckett will encapsulate them, if that means anything to you. Personally I don't consider these types of photo's cards. I have a few borderline rookie photo/cards that I really like, but don't consider them RC's.
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Dan |
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