19th century Part 2

[GaryPassamonte]

This thread will expand on Jeff's topic a bit. Which 19th century sets or subsets are the most difficult to obtain an example from, exclusive of cost, and which types have the fewest surviving cards? These are two questions that may or may not have the same answer. Possible responses could include Four Base Hits, Just So, Lone Jack, Hess, Dog's Head, OJ California League, etc. Although no one knows the definitive answers, I was just curious about the combined experience of the board.

[barrysloate]

Most of the sets you cited have something in common: in almost every case, whatever players have survived are either unique or darn close. Nearly every player known in Four Base Hits is unique, although we know of two Mike Kellys. Just So has about a dozen catalogued players, and maybe one or two of them have two examples known. I also believe that the OJ California League players are unique, although perhaps there is a player with two known cards.

The question I have is why have so few survived? You would have to think a fair number of them were distributed, so why are they so terribly rare? I don't know the answer.

[oldjudge]

Great question Gary. I can speak to a few of the issues. As far as I know, all Dogs Head N173s are unique with the exception of Kelly (two copies). California League N172 vary. Some are unique, some have two copies, Levy and Perrier have, I believe, three. Barry has already said that there are two 4BH Kellys. I think I have seen duplicate copies of one or two others but I wouldn't swear to it. I have seen multiple copies of Lone Jacks. My view is that they do not belong in this group. S F Hess California League photographic cards are also very scarce with only a few copies, at most, of most known players. Again, Levy seems to be the most readily available.

[barrysloate]

Levy is most prevalent among the N321 Hess color issue. Is he also seen frequently in N338?

[oldjudge]

Barry-If that is the photographic issue(I'm bad at remembering set numbers) then yes. He is the most common. Must have been a lot of Jewish collectors back then.

[barrysloate]

Gary- interesting point, and I agree that with these very rare sets there was some specific reason for so limited a distribution. But are you saying that a Four Base Hits was issued only so friends of the tobacco company could get a sample? I doubt that; I think they were designed for distribution but maybe something happened between the time they planned the set and when it was ready for circulation.

Jay- I was thinking the same thing. It's a very Jewish set if Levy is double or triple printed in both color and photographic.

[GaryPassamonte]

Barry,
Is it possible some of the rarest issues were not really issued at all, but were samples or "test" issues, or possibly produced in very limited numbers, as were CdVs, to be given to the players pictured as mementos?

[GaryPassamonte]

Barry,
I believe Levy has two poses in N338-1, which might account for his being more "available." Personally, I think N338-1 cards are either unique or have two cards per player. In Lipset's 19th century Encyclopedia, he stated only 16 players were known and eleven of those were in Burdick's collection. In the 27 years since the issue of the Encyclopedia only a few new players have been added to the checklist.

[oldjudge]

Gary-I only recall one copy of Levy, but I guess two is possible. However, I know I have seen three copies of one. I remember this from when I collected them.

[bh3443]

After reading about the record holders below in the Players League, I was wondering if any of these stars are represented in the series on a Players League team. The cards from this league would be a great and rare sub-set!
Here's the info:
The Players League Triple Crown leaders were Hall-of-Famer Roger Connor with 14 home runs, Pete Browning with a .373 batting average, and Hardy Richardson with 146 RBI. For pitchers, Mark Baldwin had 34 wins, Silver King had a 2.69 ERA, and Mark Baldwin struck out 211 batters.

On June 21 King threw an unofficial eight-inning no-hitter.

Oddly, in its one season of operation, the Players League saw seven triple plays: the Giants on June 14, the Red Stockings on June 30, the Pirates on July 15, the Pirates again on July 30, the Burghers on August 15, Ward's Wonders on September 6, and the Bisons on September 29.[1


I found Connor, O'Keefe, Rourke and Comiskey so far...... what a nice group of cards!

[oldjudge]

Bill-We discuss these cards in the 1890 chapter of the Old Judge book. Pick up a copy-you'll enjoy it

[bh3443]

Thank you! I will really enjoy seeing this in the book. Thanks for your help.
Regards, Bill