Question about T-213's

[marvjung]

Hi guys - haven't posted in a while.

I recently picked up a couple of my first T-213's (Type 2) and I notice that whenever these come up for sale (mostly looking on Ebay), that a significant number of these are really beaten up. I have seen on a rare occasion some nice quality T-213's, but for the most part, most look like they've been through the ringer and then some.

I was wondering why the 213's were in such rough shape?

[canjond]

I have speculated before that Coupon's are often in worse condition than other cards due to their packaging. While most cards of the era were packaged in slide and shell cigarette packs (cardboard packs with an outer shell and inner slide), Coupon utilized a soft pack configuration. See my website below for an image of the pack:

http://www.baseballandtobacco.com/t213.htm

Because the pack was not stiff, the card inside was not that well protected (or so I assume).

[caramelcard]

Interesting Jon. Thanks.

T213 type 1 are some of the thinnest tobacco cards ever made which would explain why they didn't stay in good shape for the last 100 years.

Rob

[canjond]

Rob - it's only a guess but seems logical to me. Part of the reason type 1s may have been thin is because a thicker cardboard may have ripped the cigarette wrapper. Again, just a guess.

[canjond]

I should add, I've spoken with a few cigarette collectors at length about Coupon packs and they have provided me with enough information to be fairly confident that Coupon cigarettes were not offered in a slide and shell configuration. Jim Shaw owns the Coupon cigarette pack pictured on my website (which is a softpack) and it does date to 1910. It is the only period Coupon pack I have ever come across (all others I have seen date to the 1920's through 1940's with many being in cellophane).

Interestingly, Coupon is not the only cigarette to package cards with softpacks in this time period. Pirate also packaged its cards in softpacks. Later on, however, possibly in the 1920s, Pirate switched to a slide and shell configuration.

[tbob]

Interestingly enough when I was lucky enough to be a part of the 4 person group that uncovered the "Southern Find" back in the mid 80's, there were no T213-1s, only 2s and 3s. The 2s were in mixed shape but a lot of them were in very nice shape. I ended up with about 200 2s and almost all the Hall of Famers but the 6 Cobbs I got were between VG and EXMT. There were 25 Cobbs total in the lot! The other 3 people in the group wanted 2s but I knew how rare the 3s were so I ended up with a near set of 3s, all in VG to EXMT. I lacked 2 cards of having the entire set and was able to find two T213-3s which were unknown at that time. Long gone now, sold them to Bill Mastro 20 years ago...

[rman444]

Originally Posted by canjond

Interestingly, Coupon is not the only cigarette to package cards with softpacks in this time period. Pirate also packaged its cards in softpacks. Later on, however, possibly in the 1920s, Pirate switched to a slide and shell configuration.

Jon - interesting. I have never seen a Pirate soft pack, but many slide and shells. What leads you to believe that the Pirate backed cards were not issued in the slide and shells and these are not circa early 1910's? The number of Chinese beauties/warriors Pirate backed cards leads me to believe that they were issued in the slide and shells.

[danmckee]

I believe this same problem occurs with the T227's that were soft pack only.

[oaks1912]

Ted....All of my Type 1 Coupons are on a thinner stock, as with all others I've seen. Perhaps you're confusing them with Type 3's.....

[tedzan]

Come on guys....me "confused" on the 1910 COUPON's ! ?

I'm one of the few collector's here that contend that these cards are really the 16th basic T206 T-brand.

I guess I better get my calipers and micrometer and measure my two cards.......either that, or I have two
very unusual Type 1 cards.


TED Z

[canjond]

Ted,

I'm with you that Coupon's are the 16th brand, but I still think they are thinner.

- Jon

[tedzan]

I know you agree with me on this subject; however, I think you and I are in the minority on this forum.

These cards were printed simultaneously with the regular 350 Series T206's in 1910. The 68 cards in
this set are 350 Series Subjects. Their back design is virtually identical with the Am. Bty, Broad Leaf,
Cycle and Drum issues. All my research into the 1910 COUPON cards virtually proves my argument that
it indeed a T206 issue.


........1910 COUPON................T213 type 2.................T213 type 3







As for the debate on the thickness of the cardboard stock; as I said, I'll measure my COUPON and a T206
with a micrometer and report back to you.


TED Z