Show us your "alleged" stolen nypl spaldings...."

[Freddie Maguire]

I thought it might be helpful to start a thread that didn't get bogged down with arguing about replevin and accusations.

Why don't we use the our collective knowledge to go investigate and put our skills to the test. Together can help expose the stolen goods that have sold on the market for the last few decades and put together a checklist of missing items-maybe we'll post them all.

Pull images from old auction catalogue scans, photos, old SCD's, Old Judge's etc. that you believe could match missing library items. This isn't meant to be a place for empty accusations, just observations. Maybe our detective work will even lead us to the culprits.

Like the Ole Professor said, "You could look it up!"

Here's a gem to kick it all off. It only seems fitting to start with old "Father Harry". Looks like he's rather pleased he got some of his letters back.

This one's perfect:
1. It's a Randall Cabinet Photo of HW on the NYPL missing list.
2. Exquisite back damage and paper loss. Luckily, just far enough away from Harry's signature.
3. I know, It's not unique (aside from the signature) But at least one or two of those Randalls out there are hot. OK, I'm only saying it's "alleged" to have a chance to be hot.
4, Harry did sign this one to someone. And it's Spence authenticated.
5. What I love about this one most is that it was from the Barry Halper Collection that wasn't sold at Sotheby's. That really gives the item some extra credibility.
6. Lastly, notice how REA describes the paper loss as coming from "removal from an album". Which album?

http://robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2007/21.html

[Leon]

That's a great looking cabinet. Sorry, I don't think I have any stolen items to help out with. Anyone else?

[prewarsports]

Without going over to the other thread, which is really long and boring even for a Lawyer, is there a link to the stolen items list from the NYPL?

I apologize if the info is already on here somewhere.

Rhys

[rhettyeakley]

No stolen material here either, but don't let having actual evidence of the item being stolen from the NYPL get in your way...let the accusations fly...

[baseballart]

If people have concerns about particular items, they should contact the NYPL directly. The person I contacted last year about an ebay item was:

Robert J. Vanni
Vice President, General Counsel and Secretary
The New York Public Library, Astor, Lenox and Tilden Foundations
Fifth Avenue and 42nd Street
New York, New York 10018-2788
tel. (212) 930-0744
fax (212) 391-2503
rvanni@nypl.org

As it turned out, he advised that the item had been deaccessioned by the NYPL. He indicated that if there were other items of concern, the NYPL was always grateful if such items could be brought to its attention.

I hope this assists, as I think such contact is first appropriate, rather than having a debate on a public forum without full consideration of the position of the NYPL on an item.

Max

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

No stolen material here either, but don't let having actual evidence of the item being stolen from the NYPL get in your way...let the accusations fly...

That has never stopped this board before why should it now? If this was about Mastro everyone would be throwing a pitch fork party with nooses at the ready....I applaud Freddie wholeheartedly for trying to better the hobby and I hope others will too.....The only reason you wouldn't applaud him is if you are the one who did something wrong. I have never seen any proof of any theft. If the NYPL says they are missing items then so be it. As to the above photo....I don't think you can tell anything from that back, except it has paper loss.

edited to add clarity

[Freddie Maguire]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

No stolen material here either, but don't let having actual evidence of the item being stolen from the NYPL get in your way...let the accusations fly...

Originally Posted by prewarsports

Without going over to the other thread, which is really long and boring even for a Lawyer, is there a link to the stolen items list from the NYPL?

I apologize if the info is already on here somewhere.

Rhys

I can understand the obvious trepidation by the members of this board. Accusations are ugly and lead to bickering which, on the internet, tends to its most juvenile form. That's why I started this thread. It's for posting items that match the New York Public Library's list of stolen goods.

There's no need to accuse anyone of anything here; I suppose that's what the other thread is for. Please just add to the catalog of missing items so that the community can show it is responsible and part of the recovery process. Without us, the effort is doomed.

I've attached the list for the NYPL's stolen items.

Here is one item that seems to match the list very well. In fact, it's marked as returned to the NYPL . It's listed as "O'Rourke and another, Bridgeport. Compliments to his dear friend Henry Chadwick , Jas H O'Rourke" It's sad but most likely that whole inscription may have been obliterated. I don't know, I never saw this one in person. It says the Library recovered it in Feb 07.





If you feel like you recognize something on the list, post it. If you are in error, I'm sure there will be plenty of people to say so. If you are correct, you've done your duty.

Let's not forget that not only is Harry Wright the father of professional baseball, he is also the father of baseball collecting. His collection was without equal before these sad thefts. We owe it to the hobby he helped to create to right the wrongs.

[19cbb]

Originally Posted by Freddie Maguire

I've attached the list for the NYPL's stolen items.

Freddie, I don't see the attachment

[Freddie Maguire]

Originally Posted by 19cbb

Freddie, I don't see the attachment

I'm sorry about that. You're right. The file is too big. It's a pdf. Does anyone have any suggestions?

[Leon]

This list was given to me by Freddie....sorry for the way they came out but it's the best I could do.....

[canjond]

Interesting to see the Jordan & Co. items on the list. I can recall one or two of those coming up for auction in the past few years. I imagine there can't be that many known to exist?

[19cbb]

Originally Posted by canjond

Interesting to see the Jordan & Co. items on the list. I can recall one or two of those coming up for auction in the past few years. I imagine there can't be that many known to exist?

I remember seeing the 4 NYPL Jordan & Co. CDVs while visiting the library. I think there were 2 Sam Wright's and one each of Crossley and Hammond. All of them had the old NYPL rubber stamp mark on the back.

The one I sold at auction in 2004 was never part of the NYPL... in fact at the time it was a different pose from the ones known and was incorrectly ID'd at first. I think a similar example appeared a couple of years later.

Here's my ex-jordan in raw state prior to encapsulation. (Sorry about the watermarks)




Although the Harry and Sam Wright 'Anthony CDV' cited on the stolen material report is not unique, I remember seeing a copy at public auction that looked pretty suspicious because it had the same paper clip mark like the one from the NYPL.

I need to check those catalogs again.

[barrysloate]

I've sold three Jordan and Co. in the last few years and all had good provenance. I can offer details if anyone cares.

And I wanted to add that like Jimmy, I went to the NYPL in 2005 to do some research before I sold my first two. I also saw the four he cited- two Sam Wrights, a Crossley, and a Hammond. I recall that the Crossley was an alternate pose to the one I had.

[Freddie Maguire]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I've sold three Jordan and Co. in the last few years and all had good provenance. I can offer details if anyone cares.

And I wanted to add that like Jimmy, I went to the NYPL in 2005 to do some research before I sold my first two. I also saw the four he cited- two Sam Wrights, a Crossley, and a Hammond. I recall that the Crossley was an alternate pose to the one I had.

This is the back of the Harry Wright with Sam Wright CDV with the paper clip mark noted in this forum.

It is interesting to note that it does not have a traditional NYPL stamp. It is in fact, unstamped-not every item in the collection was stamped.

It's important to note that when you guys are looking at the designation "unidentified cricket player. (Jordan and Co.) 4 photographs of 4." That means that 4 different specimens are actually missing from the Spalding Collection.

The other ones you are referring to are accounted for in the inventory.

That being said and considering the staggering rarity of these CDV's, where are the 4 missing ones and what is the likelihood that Jordans on the market are stolen from NYPL? Where did the Jordans that have been sold come from? This isn't meant to be an accusation-it just needs to be asked. Mr. Sloate said he had some provenance info on these. I think it should be posted.