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#1
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First time I’ve been ripped off
Hey guys,
Just thought I’d share an experience with you as this seller continues to sell on the BST here (for now). I bought a Piper Bat from Kevin (khkco4bls) and the deal for one bat ballooned into 15 bats. Kevin sent me a lot of pictures of his collection and I said that one day I would like to purchase my first vintage baseball. He proceeded to offer me a Goldsmith baseball that has the word ATLANTIC across the front. The price was 600 dollars, and that was only because I was already purchasing 15 bats. The Atlantic League was 1896 to 1900 and I told him that I would be so happy to add a ball from that era. Long story short, I asked Brandon Grunbaum to confirm the age of the ball and he tells me that it’s ball from 1926-1932 and it’s worth 50 to 75 bucks. Not 600. Not rare and certainly not of the era I was told. I write Kevin and simply tell him that the ball isn’t what he said it was and that I’d like a refund. His first response is that he has another one and when it goes to auction in October, he would refund me the difference. I responded to that saying that waiting until October is too long and that I never would have bought the ball if he told me what it actually was, regardless if he actually knew or not. He then responds to me “No. You made the deals we all win and lose sometimes you're going to have to wait” I’ve had countless deals on the forum and every one has been smooth. I’ve never deceived anybody and nor will I ever. I’m thoroughly disappointed that I won’t be refunded but I think it’s fair that everyone knows that when dealing with Kevin, you will not be refunded if unhappy. Heck, he won’t refund me after selling a ball that he completely misrepresented. I hope that he reconsiders and refunds me my money, but there has been a lot of back and forth and essentially he’s telling me that he knows I’ve been taken but that’s just part of the hobby. Well it’s certainly not the hobby I want to contribute to. Rant over. Jonathan Schwartz |
#2
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Ball Question
I guess the immediate question is: you spent $600 on a ball that you did no research on until after you paid for it?
Am I reading this incorrectly? |
#3
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I thinks there's bigger issues than your " immediate question".
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#4
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It looks like the seller you've accused has many items listed for sale on this site. If this is all true it doesn't say much for his honestly or credibility. Hopefully he will respond and present his side of this story. Returning the item for a refund if it was misrepresented seems like a logical resolution.
__________________
Successful transactions with peter spaeth, don's cards, vwtdi, wolf441, 111gecko, Clydewally, Jim, SPMIDD, MattyC, jmb, botn, E107collector, begsu1013, and a few others. |
#5
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Remind me to never buy anything from you.
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#6
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If I sold you something as authentic and it wasn't would that be your fault?
__________________
Leon Luckey |
#7
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Quote:
In my heart, I believe Kevin was ripped off when he bought the ball originally. And maybe he has too much pride to admit that. |
#8
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Ball
Saw a few responses and read the original post again.
My bad, I just got hooked on phonics....should have spent more time on it before responding. |
#9
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The sellers response is like well we all get ripped off so I'll rip off you too . Totally inappropriate and BS .
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#10
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Im not sure what your payment method was but that might give you a few different options with regards to the refund.
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#11
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Quote:
At least not off of this site. This is the one site that I feel as though I can trust everyone.
__________________
429/524 Off of the monster 81% 49/76 HOF's 64% 18/20 Overlooked by Cooperstown 90% 22/39 Unique Backs 56% 80/86 Minors 93% 25/48 Southern Leaguers 52% 6/10 Billy Sullivan back run 60% 237PSA / 94 SGC / 98 RAW Excel spreadsheets only $5 T3, T201, T202, T204, T205, T206, T207, 1914 CJ, 1915 CJ, Topps 1952-1979, and more!!!! Checklists sold (20) T205 8/208 3.8% |
#12
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Did Kevin tell you the ball was that old, or did you assume the ball was that old? That part of your story isn't quite clear.
If he told you that, yes you deserve a refund because it was misrepresented. If you assumed that, then you should have done more research. |
#13
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Quote:
He told me that. And then when I told him that Brandon said it wasn't from when he said it was, he said that Brandon doesn't know what he is talking about, I to quote his response "Whoever told you that was worth $75 he's totally wrong the ball is not from the 19 thirties there is a later model of the same type with different type faces that is not as early as that one" To which Brandon replied to me "Comical, "there's a later model that looks the same"...The stuff these guys come up with. Tell him you talked to me, and show him this image. This is not opinion, this is research and fact." |
#14
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Thanks for the reply. Good luck with your refund. Hopefully he'll see the post and make things right. |
#16
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I will speak to AMEX and see what they can do. Best, Jonathan |
#17
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And yes, if he misrepresented the ball to you, that's a clear case of needing to give you a full refund. He needs to make that right. |
#18
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The fact that this ball was being purchased in ADDITION to a large number of bats, and I'm assuming that was no small purchase, and the seller is yanking your chain like this? Unethical and in very poor form.
Over the years I've been on 54, I've seen instances where one's reputation can be eternally tarnished, deservedly so, because of a very poor choice. I truly hope the seller makes this right.
__________________
Working on the 1957 Topps set. |
#19
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I second Brian, I would like to see photos of this ball.
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Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards |
#20
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What a douche of a seller. Yeah, Brandon doesn't know what he's talking about, ok. Has a book on the history of the baseball for no reason I guess lol.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
HOFAutoRookies.com |
#21
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If the OP is telling the whole story, I'm appalled that no refund has been made. This seems like outright theft.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
__________________
Thanks, Jason Collecting interests and want lists at https://jasoncards.wordpress.com/201...nd-want-lists/ |
#22
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The silence (from the seller) is deafening.
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#23
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Normally, I would agree, but it is the 4th of July weekend. The guy has been on here forever, let's give him a chance to respond.
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#24
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Is the second ball being taken to the National the same vintage as the one you purchased? If so, and the seller is now aware of the vintage, why would he try to sell it as an older ball at the National?
__________________
fr3d c0wl3s - always looking for OJs and other 19th century stuff. PM or email me if you have something cool you're looking to find a new home for. |
#25
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That's pretty shady! I actually PM'd the seller a few days ago about one of his BST listings, but haven't heard anything back. Thanks for posting this and making us all aware. You def deserve a refund!!!!
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#26
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Quote:
Look, at the end of the day it isn't 5K or 10K, so I can at least be thankful for that. That being said, I wanted to get as much info on the ball as possible because I was proud to have something like that in my collection. When I sit in my baseball room with my 5 year old son, we talk about the history of the game, and we handle the items because that's how we enjoy it. It's not enjoyable to show him the ball that I got ripped off on. I gave him a chance to take that out. When I originally emailed him I said that the ball isn't what WE thought. That gives him the out to say "crap, well I must have been lied to when I bought it so return it for a refund and I'm sorry" or some iteration about that. Instead he said that Brandon doesn't know what he's talking about. Then I emailed him the PDF reference to show the different Goldsmith logos and their years of usage. Then he responds that he can refund me the difference after his other ball sells in October. Then I tell him that it's a little much for me to have to wait until October for a refund. His response was “No. You made the deals we all win and lose sometimes you're going to have to wait” THAT is where he crossed the line with me. It's 100% unacceptable. |
#27
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Is the cover of that ball canvas? It knid of appears so which would make it a more a kids playground or carnival type ball. Either way the logo proves it to be much later than what it was sold to you as and you deserve a full refund on it.
__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards |
#28
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Quote:
if you took your money he should have the money RIGHT now to pay back...why does he make you have to be unconfortable waiting for your money when he easily can be the unconfortable one refunding you now...then he can waiting till October to resolve his money issue.......you have bills to pay now...... slow pay with conditions is the same is no pay to me .. i may get in back and forth on some on some posts..but you will see its never about an actual sale of a card and a dissatisfied buyer...i not sure how you dont refund the money on that issue immediately i know i woudl Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 07-03-2016 at 09:57 PM. |
#29
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Well, he was on the board as of 9 PM CDT tonight, he may not have seen this post, but he was here.
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Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards |
#30
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The plot thickens...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
__________________
Thanks, Jason Collecting interests and want lists at https://jasoncards.wordpress.com/201...nd-want-lists/ |
#31
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A little off topic but the bats on eBay look pretty nice for their age and for the prices paid.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
__________________
Thanks, Jason Collecting interests and want lists at https://jasoncards.wordpress.com/201...nd-want-lists/ |
#32
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If I had a little more experience (and probably less respect for my elders as I'm only 33 years old) I would have returned the entire group of bats. But Kevin, I didn't want to 'bug' you and instead chalked it up to my inexperience. The problem is that you've been doing this for a long time. You said that on the phone too. When you told me that you were going to put them all in a single bat bag and ship them to Washington State (I actually live on Bowen Island in British Columbia and my post box in Washington State is about a 60 minute drive for me) I decided to call Greg and see if he wouldn't mind meeting you to pick them up because I was nervous about them rattling around together in a bag with no protection. When I get a bat from Greg it comes in a tube, bubble wrapped, with peanuts on either end, with bubble wrap around the tube and shipped in a big box.Unfortunately he couldn't meet you on the day you were driving to play golf with friends. We took about a week to see if I could make that meeting happen.
When Greg got the bats in hand he called me and said that they were no good. And Greg is the ONLY person I trust when talking about this stuff. He has been around a long time and has never once steered me wrong. He didn't say they were no good but 'man oh man you are going to make a killing selling these things". As a matter of fact, it would have been easier for him to just reship them to me and hype them up so that I wouldn't have had a bad experience buying from you. He wasted his time unloading them to at least recoup me some of the money. One of the most discouraging things about you is that after speaking to Brandon, coupled with you having experience in this hobby, you could have sold me even a decent ball that was a pro model for the 600 dollars. You showed me pictures of balls in your collection that I know now to be pro baseballs. To me, it's clear that you flat out ripped me off. The ONE ball you choose to offer me ends up being a dud? What are the odds of that happening? With all those balls you showed me, and their boxes in cubes, you choose to sell me the one ball that ends up being a dud? Come on, I might only be 33 but I have common sense. I told you on the phone when we spoke the I've been doing this for around 18 months, and that I'm practically brand new in the equipment side of the hobby. I told you that I do this to be able to sit with my 5 year old son and talk about the game. Anyone on this board who has taken a second to have a chat with me would know exactly the kind of person I am, and you took advantage of that person. At the end of the day, I struggled even posting the original message, because on some baseline, being associated with negativity isn't something I like to be a part of. When I spoke to Leon I told him that I needed some time to think about whether or not to even do it. I know how these things can go. The people that don't know me can certainly come to their own conclusions. However, I gave you a chance to refund the money. I was nice about it. I told you that even though the condition of the bats wouldn't fit in my collection I was ok with it. I wrote that in an email to you. I never ONE TIME emailed you or called asking to return the bats. I had already chalked that up to a loss. The GREAT deal you gave me resulted in a $600 ball worth $50 bucks, and a loss of around $800 on bats that were not properly described. Let's take it a step further. One of the bats was a Winchester. It was completely cracked. The crack was hidden under grip tape. You never said, one of the bats I'm selling you is completely cracked but the crack is hidden under grip tape so you'd never really know unless you take the tape off..." You kept that information to yourself. I have no clue how you wouldn't have known that it was cracked, but maybe you didn't know for the same reason you say you didn't know about the baseball. The whole thing stinks. You know what you did, and now you can undo it. For someone to be in the hobby a long time and take advantage of a new collector is sad. It's something that every other person on this board has NOT done to me. 600 dollars it's peanuts. This whole deal started with a cheap Piper Bat. It developed into a phone conversation where you heard firsthand about my inexperience. Then you sunk your teeth in. Finally, I fully expect that some members will think I've done something wrong, and that's ok. All I can do is lay out the facts and try to explain my point of view. We are talking about a 600 dollar baseball, sold from an experienced collector to an admitted novice. Those are the facts. 6:37 AM and the kids are up. I check the thread all the time and will answer any other questions that are asked of me. Jonathan |
#33
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However it all plays out, I think it took real balls to post this.
__________________
Thanks, Jason Collecting interests and want lists at https://jasoncards.wordpress.com/201...nd-want-lists/ |
#34
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Our long national nightmare is over.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk |
#35
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Not bad. Not bad. I do like the empty tub of popcorn better. If only Scarlett's "Popcorn girl" gif had been posted.
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#36
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Bailey which Bailey? This is Mr. George Bailey. Love the movie. Sorry couldnt resist! This is about all the thread warrants.......
__________________
The speed of light is faster that the speed of sound that is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. Trying is the first step towards failing, and failing is the first step towards success! Life's lessons cost money Some lessons cost a lot.. |
#37
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Sorry, I started off with Jon Stewart's popcorn gif, needed closure.
__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
#38
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Although I'm glad that the buyer ultimately got his refund, is anyone else kind of disappointed this thread is over...it's like, what do I do with this extra hour I just found?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Successful transactions with: jp216 |
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