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#1
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Is 3000 hits a big deal or overrated?
I do appreciate that Ichiro didnt take like 20 years to do it like others which would be more easy but still
Isnt total bases the true measuring stick Id rather honor a guy for example with 2500 hits but 5000 total bases compared to a guy with 3000 hits with 4000 total bases because of a bunch of 2 out slap singles....this assumes the RBI total is also greater for the guy with 5000 total bases. I thought a walk is as good as a hit as well at least in little league. so maybe we should be honoring someone with 7000 total bases or whatever amount that there would be only 30 players that were able to get to whatever that number would be... Incidentally i just checked the total base leaders..and number 1 was a little a shy of 7000..(hank aaron 6856) Number 30 would be Andre Dawson. Babe Ruth would be number 7..he was shy of 3000 hits..does it matter?? http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...B_career.shtml Ichiro is 106th all time ranked in total bases...Chili Davis is 100th 42 bases ahead...i think should be a big celebration if Ichiro is top 100! Have a total bases countdown and wear shirts... plus ichiro is like 128 away from 4000 total bases..lets start the countdown Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 08-07-2016 at 10:21 AM. |
#2
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Well.... 3000 hits is just a number that, because humans like even numbers, we decided carries some special meaning. It really doesn't. BUT, it's still a big moment in a player's career and has happened rare enough for it to be a decent career gauge.
HOWEVER, that being said, it isn't a very good yardstick for productivity as all hits are not created equal. 3000 Ichiro hits have not had the same value as 3000 Clemente hits. Power matters. Now, as to your idea about using Total Bases, it's ok I guess, but there are better numbers to use to get an overall picture of a hitter's merit. Weighted Runs Created + measures each hit individually includes park and league adjustment and puts it all into a neat single number with 100 being avg. Take that number and then look at hits and you get a better picture of production that took place in the hits rather than gauging all hits equally. (example: Ichiro's wRC+ for his career is 105, 5% above avg, Clemente's was 129 or 29% above avg) Another problem with hits and total bases is that total plate appearances matter too. Rose got 4256 hits to Cobb's 4189, but he did it over 15876 PA's to Cobb's 13072. It becomes obvious here that the so called" HIT KING" is nothing of the sort.
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"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."- Tom Waits Last edited by bravos4evr; 08-07-2016 at 12:03 PM. |
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but not cool to be a 1.3 hit per game hitter...... i not into round numbers...i dont mind have a lot of 9s instead of 0s... |
#4
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Have you ever played baseball? College level? High School level?
Yes, getting 3000 hits in the Major Leagues is a big deal. It is an enormous accomplishment, no matter how long it takes. Heck, getting one at bat at that level is an honor of which any man could be proud. Look at how good you have to be, just to get drafted. Look at how few of all those who have played, have achieved certain milestones. Last edited by MattyC; 08-07-2016 at 06:17 PM. |
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#6
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Same... And it is not about total bases since those favors the sluggers. The name of the game is getting on base and avoiding outs. It's this line of reasoning that will get Tim Raines in the hall soon. Having said that 3000 hits is still a huge accomplishment.
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One post max per thread. Last edited by chaddurbin; 08-07-2016 at 07:07 PM. |
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LOL +1, I saw the title and I knew immediately who started it.
Last edited by D. Bergin; 08-07-2016 at 07:31 PM. |
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LOL when i saw your post which contributes zero and just attacks someone thats making a case for something and not bad intentioned at all i know it had to be another bnorth post...congrats you did not disappoint
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#9
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Great point Ben, what's the freaking use? It's like arguing with a wooden indian....
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#10
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so if wade boggs told you than 3000 hits isnt a big deal, you would change your mind..or adam greenberg since he got 1 ab..whatever he says about baseball is right compared to you because you didnt play in the show? why go there....look at my post......it just compares total bases to hits....man, whats the deal. and what bravosforever stated....what clemente did for his 3000 hits blows away ichiro...yet we grouping them in the same category as an equal accomplishment... Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 08-07-2016 at 07:58 PM. |
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I would take Ichiro over Thome for the top of the order. The only way I take Thome is if I have others just as good as getting on base and he is an upgrade over my middle of the lineup guys. Ichiro is also a good fielder. Thome is not. |
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and it's an ok deal, but it's not some mark of greatness without the context of how it was done. Mostly it's a sign of longevity. A player's productivity can not be described by the blunt instrument of how many hits they got.
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"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."- Tom Waits |
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Agree on all points. 200 hits a year for 15 years. Playing 15 years is an accomplishment, then averaging 200 hits per 500 some to 600 at bats. It's about endurance and perserverance as much as athletic ability. |
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I agree as well its an accomplishment..just not as good as some other and its celebrated too much in comparison. 4500 total bases takes in account endurance and preserverance as much as atheltic ability on a grander scale.....i already gave ichiro credit for doing it in less than 20 years like many other 3000 hit guys which makes their accomplishments pale in comparison even more to the top 30 total base guys
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Last edited by CMIZ5290; 08-09-2016 at 03:18 PM. |
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None isnt saying its a great accomplishment, i am saying total bases matters more and gets zero interest
Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 08-09-2016 at 03:58 PM. |
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sorry, 3000 hits doesn't mean jack. It just doesn't. you can stomp your feet and whine until you turn blue and it doesn't change a thing. Your viewpoint is simply antiquated and wrong and based on a fundamental misunderstanding of baseball. (which, isn't really your fault, bad information was preached as gospel by lot's of so called "experts" for a long time, but we evolve, we learn we understand more and more now than ever before, and 3000 hits ,in and of itself, simply isn't an indicator of production. hitting 5% above avg isn't all that great.)
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"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."- Tom Waits |
#18
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One last thing...while there is no rule about posting images of cards, I think that a hundred or so posts without one is too many. Enjoy the '56 Mantle, everyone.
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