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#1
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A T219 Thread
Any of you gentlemen into T219? Pretty tough, pretty good looking, pretty cheap. My trinity. It hasn’t been talked about much here, mainly a few posts explaining that it is indeed a different set than T218. PSA doesn’t seem to know the difference between these two sets, they tag T218 as T219 and vice versa fairly frequently. I'd title this "The T219 thread", but that's a little presumptuous.
It’s the later of 2 clones of the common T218’s, with only boxers (12 poses excised to cut the set down to 50. ATC/ALC seem to have liked printing in multiples of 25). Unlike T223 and the later T206 clones, the T219’s are the same image quality as their source. The physical size is smaller side-to-side and usually just a little bit taller, not sure why as the T218 cards would fit fine in the HLC and Miners boxes, and are cropped differently. The missing boxers and their corresponding t218 series are Sailor Burke (1), Charles Eyton (3), Joe Gans (2), George Gardiner (2), Jimmy Gardner (1), Charley Griffin (2), Dick Hyland (1), James J. Jeffries (Drapes) (2), Jack Johnson (Green) (Late 1 and 2), Johnny Summers (Boxing) (3), Johnny Summers (rowing) (3), Eddie Walsh (1). Johnson and Jeffries were presumably to avoid duplication, and Gans was dead. Gardiner was a former champion, but retired. Some of them were pretty good, like the other Gardner brother, but it seems to me the excisions had some thought put into them, some of the weaker fighters, duplicates, and the two who were no longer active. As they include a selection from all three series, it must come after T218-3 that was issued in early 1911. The Jeffries and Johnson cards were edited on the backs for the July 4, 1910 bout (The Johnson back update mirrors his T227 back text). Possibly a precedent/follow-up to the T227 HLC/Miners partnership? It deductively must be a 1911 or 1912 issue. They are significantly tougher than T218, but supply seems to far outstrip demand anyways. Honest Long Cut Black is the common back. Honest Long Cut Green is maybe 3x-5x tougher than the blacks, though they usually aren’t even noted as existing when the set comes up. I’m not sure if anyone else cares about them whatsoever. Miners Extra is fairly tough, seems easier than it actually is the last couple of years due to a couple large lot sales and a series of them put up for rather optimistic BIN’s on eBay that just sit. They are easier than T218 Tolstoi’s. The Red Cross are almost impossible, there’s a couple big batches of them and outside of those, good luck. I still don’t have a type card of the Red Crosses, but am building a set of each of the other 3 backs, for a 150 card run (I have 124 different). I haven’t really made notes to confirm each card exists with each back until recently. I’ve confirmed everything with Honest Long Cut Black, Miners Extra, and Red Cross (that one complete set made the tough one easy for once). I still need to confirm Honest Long Cut Green backs for Coulon, Jeanette, Kaufman, Harry Lewis, Loughrey, Neil, Nitchie, O’Toole, Jack Sullivan, West and Wolgast. I’d be pretty surprised if these didn’t exist, but I’ve learned to never assume with ATC/ALC sets. Anyone else collect these? Hate them? Thoughts on the backs? Have any of the HLC Green’s I haven’t seen a pic of you’d be willing to share? Rub it in and share a Red Cross? Here's the 3 backs I do have, plus the Johnson size/crop comparison since he's the only card that seems to get any attention. |
#2
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I really enjoy the T219 issue and have collected and completed the ME and RC sets. The RC backs are very tough and I haven't seen a group of these in several years.
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#3
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That’s one heck of an accomplishment. I need 5 commons to complete the ME back set. There was a batch of 15-20 beater red crosses on eBay someone got for a BIN of ~$25 a few months ago. They got one nice steal there. Aside from that, I’ve only seen a handful of singles come up the last 3-4 years. Seems most of them are locked down in collections now.
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#4
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Probably someone has to quit or croak to free up a decent # of Red Cross cards. I guess they are as rare as the baseball version.
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... |
#5
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Just to confirm HLC green back Kaufman and Nitchie. Mark them as known as seen. 👍
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#6
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I don’t really collect the T219s, but I have a few that were in T218 lots. I did notice that the Miner’s Extra Jeannette card has the single “n” name on the back like some of the Hassan T218 versions. Interesting.
B74654DF-38A9-481D-8BBA-680E2F2BF337.jpg |
#7
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Thank you for sharing and confirming Kaufman and Nitchie! 2 more I got to chase down here
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#8
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Best I ever found was 7 at a local show back in the day. They were beaters too; looked like they'd to hell and back.
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Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... Last edited by Exhibitman; 06-21-2021 at 12:11 PM. |
#9
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I have 158 T219 cards...that includes 2 complete HLC sets and lots of HLC duplicates...the few non HLC cards I have and one of my complete sets are shown
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk |
#10
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Very nice set! Mine sure is a bit rougher. If you ever happen to go through the backs, I'd be much obliged if you could confirm a Green Text Honest Long Cut in either of your sets of any of these gentlemen: Coulon, Jeanette, Harry Lewis, Loughrey, Neil, O’Toole, Jack Sullivan, West and Wolgast.
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#11
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Quote:
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk |
#12
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As promised, I am much obliged . Thank you for sharing these!
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#13
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Bought a lot of 30 some odd cards (I should stop buying lots of sets I like but have most of the cards already, but I'm an addicted junkie) and breaking it up have found 4 of the 5 remaining blacks I needed. Puts me at 49/50, only Jack Johnson (of course!) to go.
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#14
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Dave, what's the provenance of this? A collector? Non-collector? Dumpster diver who got lucky?
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... |
#15
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"Supposedly" Social worker helping out an old guy. they were given to her,
then supposedly thrown in the trash and a roommate took them out of the trash then supposedly she took them back to the guy, maybe not all in this order and he told her to get off his property and take the cards with you, kind of a crazy story. They were in 9 pocket sheets and clearly had been in there a while the sheets were quite toned. There were a couple other dealers, I looked them up but forget exactly who they were who expressed an interest as well. I probably paid too much for them, but I know they are super rare and did not want to let them get away There are quite a few duplicates, a total of 55 boxers and three flags |
#16
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That's certainly a crazy story. I was surprised to see you're in LA. I figured this kind of thing only happens on the east coast where there's much more of the old cards to find (or so it seems).
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#17
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They were sent from Texas, most of the stuff I buy comes from all over the country
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#18
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Did one of you guys win the sgc 40 T219 RC common for $350 the other day? I guess I'm not going for the set for those prices. I bid $88.88 and someone before me had already bid that exact amount, so I stopped bidding. I like these cards in the $100 range, otherwise, I'd rather go for the track cards with a Hassan back for $4.00 and $7.00 shipping.
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Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades) Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc |
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