Article about Collecting and Fraud in the Hobby

[whiteymet]

Hi Gang:

A recent article appeared in the Philadelphia Inquirer and Daily News regarding the hobby. Some of our members and are interviewed and shown in photos. Sadly, I can't show the photos and the article can be seen by subscription only, but I copied it below

SPORTS
Fraud is ‘rampant’ in sports collectibles. Here’s how the industry and collectors are trying to fight it.
The hobby has struggled to regulate itself, creating opportunity for bad actors looking to cash in.

A fan holds an autographed baseball.
A fan holds an autographed baseball.
Aaron Doster / AP
by Jon Marks, For The Inquirer
Updated Sep 13, 2022

The collector had no idea he had been scammed. He had bought autographed baseballs for 25 years, amassing 263 in his collection that include some of the all-time greats: Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Honus Wagner, Cy Young, and Christy Mathewson, as well as current stars such as Mike Trout, Albert Pujols, Ronald Acuña Jr., and Bryce Harper. He even had all-star team balls signed by every player, all of them authenticated as legit.

So there was no reason to suspect the Thurman Munson ball he purchased a decade ago was a fake until the auctioneer he bought it from contacted him last year.

“They had been tracking this [forger] because there was a painting he forged,” said the Montgomery County collector who prefers to remain anonymous. “They followed the money.

Pictured is the autographed baseball collection by a Montgomery County collector, including a fake Thurman Munson ball (fourth from the left on the second row).
Pictured is the autographed baseball collection by a Montgomery County collector, including a fake Thurman Munson ball (fourth from the left on the second row).
Jon Marks
“The way it was explained to me, he’d pay his people with checks and they were able to trace where the money went and found other people who did this and they all came clean. The FBI got back to the auction house and said this ball was forged and they called me and said, ‘It’s a fake and we need it back.’ They turned it over to the FBI.”

He’s not the only one to fall victim to a practice that has grown in recent years. Despite ongoing FBI investigations and better public awareness, fraud in the sports collectibles industry has become a problem.

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“There’s a lot of money out there,” said Brian Brusokas, an agent with the FBI’s Art Crimes Team, which was created in 2007 to investigate suspicious activities in several areas, including sports collectibles. “That’s when the unscrupulous actors start to take advantage of collectors.

“That’s what myself and my colleagues in the FBI are looking to root out.”

Al Crisafulli of Love of the Game Auction House, which specializes in vintage pre-war cards.
Al Crisafulli of Love of the Game Auction House, which specializes in vintage pre-war cards.
Jon Marks
While the vast majority of collectors and dealers are legit, Brusokas said there is that element that will try to take advantage of unsuspecting customers. The 1999 FBI investigation called Operation Bullpen and subsequent Operation Foul Ball resulted in numerous convictions in several states and recovered millions in phony memorabilia, but instances of fraud have been on the rise in recent years.

‘Rampant’ fraud
“It’s rampant and it’s been rampant for years,” said Al Crisafulli of Love of the Game Auction House in Kingston, N.Y. “The authentication companies have done a pretty good job on the autographs side, so you’re usually good as long as what you’re buying has been authenticated by a reputable company.

“The hobby has not done a good job policing itself and it’s not regulated. If you have a car with 100,000 miles on it and roll back the odometer, you can go to jail. But in this hobby, there is no governing body. No laws that prevent somebody from theoretically doctoring a card, getting it past the grading company, and having it go to auction. There hasn’t been anybody who’s paid a really stiff punishment.”

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Perhaps that’s why there were long lines in July at the National Collectors’ Convention in Atlantic City for the Professional Sports Authentication and James Spence Authentication sites, considered the foremost authentication authorities.

“There’s a lot of fraudulent memorabilia in the market,” said Chris Carlin, the director of customer care at California-based PSA. “We employ some of the most renowned autograph experts in the world, which is why people are in long lines here today.

Jay and Jim Lutz of Bucks County Baseball Co. in Bristol. They are a father-and-son team, specializing in the Phillies and other Philadelphia team memorabilia.
Jay and Jim Lutz of Bucks County Baseball Co. in Bristol. They are a father-and-son team, specializing in the Phillies and other Philadelphia team memorabilia.
Jon Marks
“Grading services are where we will authenticate and encapsulate trading cards and assign them a numeric grade from 1-10. Autograph authentication is done by PSA/DNA.”

PSA/DNA is a detailed four-step authentication process that includes using invisible ink containing a synthetic sequence specific to PSA.

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“Our services are designed to protect the consumer,” said Carlin, who added they’ll soon be changing the name from PSA/DNA to PSA Autograph Division to avoid confusion since no actual DNA is used. “If we don’t have confidence in what’s presented to us, we will not pass it through the process.”

One major case
Just as the collectibles industry has expanded, so have the degree and levels of fraud. The fraudulent autographed Munson ball referenced earlier, as well as fake Ruth and Lou Gehrig autographs on bats by using wood from that era, are believed to have been perpetrated by Donald “DB” Henkel, who was indicted in April by the Department of Justice along with his brother Mark and another man. His Michigan studio was reportedly raided in July 2020, although the FBI would not confirm that since it’s part of an ongoing investigation. All three men have pleaded not guilty to federal fraud charges for allegedly scheming to create and sell false works of art and memorabilia.

“[Donald Henkel] is one of the best who ever lived,” said Jeremy Kraft, who has worked for Hunt Auctions in Exton for 14 years after spending four years as an authenticator. “It’s unreal what he can create.

Chris Ivy, Heritage Auctions Director of Sports Auctions, holds a 1952 Mickey Mantle card that sold for a record $12.6 million in August.
Chris Ivy, Heritage Auctions Director of Sports Auctions, holds a 1952 Mickey Mantle card that sold for a record $12.6 million in August.
LM Otero / AP
“Certain forgers’ work can be identified. That case is more of an anomaly, as forgers who are not necessarily talented can operate for some time.

“Most never get called out. But there are guys who are talented and who pump stuff out. At one time, there were tens of thousands of bad [Mickey] Mantle and [Joe] DiMaggio pieces that came into the market.”

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Besides producing fake autographs, there’s also the business of altering cards. Smoothing out rough edges, changing the degrees of color and realigning the print face can change a card’s value. So a card originally graded as a 4 suddenly is a 5 or 6 and so on.

But that’s not the case with the prize collection recently auctioned off by Dallas-based Heritage Auctions. The company, which also specializes in world and ancient coins along with comic books, auctioned off a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle rookie card last month that graded 9.5. It sold for a record $12.6 million, easily surpassing the $7.25 million that a T-206 Honus Wagner card went for in a recent private sale.

“It’s got beautiful corners and everything about it is perfect,” said Crisafulli, whose auction house specializes in vintage pre-war cards. “Now, if you had this same card with a smushed-in corner, maybe that’s going to be a 4 worth around $70,000.

“If there was a way to take that smushed-in corner and straighten it to fool graders into a 5, that might go for $120,000. A 6, even more. With these kind of incremental changes, you can impact the value by trimming cards’ edges to make them a little sharper or adding color. It’s not easy to do, but for the people who do it, it’s fraud.

Julie Develin, founder of Women in the Hobby.
Julie Develin, founder of Women in the Hobby.
Jon Marks
“You’re lying about what you have and it devalues the card. The other thing it does is it causes the person who buys it to shell out a lot more money than they should for the card.”

In the mail: Nothing
Then there’s simply the old switcheroo.

“I met a guy who wanted to do a trade with me,” said Chicagoan Sam Nubani, who said his collection is worth $10 million. “I thought I could trust him.

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“He said he would mail me my cards and I would mail him his at the same time. I go to FedEx to mail my box when I get notification he mailed his. Two days later, I get the box and it’s empty. I lost about 70 grand.”

It comes with the territory.

“Yes, it’s something we always worry about,” said the founder of Women in the Hobby, Julie Develin, who grew up playing softball in Plymouth Meeting. “I feel like 95% of those in the hobby are probably good actors, but fraud absolutely happens.

“From my niche, women in general are probably preyed on more because we’re perceived as not having as much knowledge, which couldn’t be further from the truth.

“I’ve been scammed on eBay. I think all of us have.”

But the longer you’ve been around, the more you learn to sense when something might not be right.

I found in the ’90s, there were more fraudulent companies out there, but some of those items are still out in the marketplace. Today’s autographs are much more secure. Where it becomes harder are those older autographs.

Jim Lutz of Bucks County Baseball Co.
“Experience kind of tells us where we can see things that are kind of red flags,” said Jim Lutz, who works with his son, Jay, at Bucks County Baseball Co. in Bristol, where they used to get Mike Schmidt and other notable players to make personal appearances and sign for their customers. “When there are items people are trying to sell us, we kind of vet things.

“I found in the ‘90s, there were more fraudulent companies out there, but some of those items are still out in the marketplace. Today’s autographs are much more secure. Where it becomes harder are those older autographs.

“Even with the best authenticators, all they’re giving you is an opinion. It’s an educated opinion, but Connie Mack used to have a secretary do his signings.

“She was as good as he was. That’s a true story.”

Brusokas said that while the industry has made strides to inspire customer confidence over the last 20 years, collectors should remember that grading memorabilia is not a science but “an educated opinion.”

“Collectors should purchase sports collectible items because they enjoy looking at them, learning about the players or because looking at the item takes them back to a special time in their life, not for the resale value,” Brusokas said.

And as Carlin advises, if a deal looks too good to be true, “it probably is.”

Published Sept. 13, 2022
JM
Jon Marks, For The Inquirer
VIEW COMMENTS
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A

[Peter_Spaeth]

"No laws that prevent somebody from theoretically doctoring a card, getting it past the grading company, and having it go to auction."

Hard to read, who said that? It's not right if the third part above is included. We've been through this extensively. Mail and wire fraud apply to knowingly selling an altered card and not disclosing that it's altered, at least if most people would view the alteration as material (eg trimming). It isn't a defense that you fraudulently graded it. That's why we have, or had, an FBI investigation.

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

"No laws that prevent somebody from theoretically doctoring a card, getting it past the grading company, and having it go to auction."

Hard to read, who said that? It's not right if the third part above is included. We've been through this extensively. Mail and wire fraud apply to knowingly selling an altered card and not disclosing. It isn't a defense that you fraudulently graded it. That's why we have, or had, an FBI investigation.

Peter:

in reading the article the wording you are questioning seem to be in quotes from Al Crisafulli

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Peter:

in reading the article the wording you are questioning seem to be in quotes from Al Crisafulli

Well I am not going to judge anyone on the basis of a quote in the press, as he may have been misquoted or taken out of context. But the statement as quoted is wrong, there clearly is an applicable legal framework as was discussed ad nauseum a couple of years ago and since, and the FBI would not have investigated if there wasn't. And PWCC would not have cooperated (for a long while anyhow), and his elite criminal lawyer would not have advised him to, if there wasn't. Maybe the reporter should have asked Special Agent Brusokas if he wanted to know about the law..

[MikeGarcia]

.
“I met a guy who wanted to do a trade with me,” said Chicagoan Sam Nubani, who said his collection is worth $10 million. “I thought I could trust him.

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“He said he would mail me my cards and I would mail him his at the same time. I go to FedEx to mail my box when I get notification he mailed his. Two days later, I get the box and it’s empty. I lost about 70 grand.”



... maybe it's just me , but for 70K I would gas-up the Park Avenue , shanghai a grand kid out of school for a day to help drive , and meet in the parking lot of Los Pollos Hermanos if need be, but we be doing that 70K in person , hombre.

..

[Peter_Spaeth]

I have a friend who bought a 52T Mantle from a guy through the mail or maybe it was Fed Ex and received a 57T. It was a long painful process but we got his money back.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

"No laws that prevent somebody from theoretically doctoring a card, getting it past the grading company, and having it go to auction."

Hard to read, who said that? It's not right if the third part above is included. We've been through this extensively. Mail and wire fraud apply to knowingly selling an altered card and not disclosing that it's altered, at least if most people would view the alteration as material (eg trimming). It isn't a defense that you fraudulently graded it. That's why we have, or had, an FBI investigation.

Don't disagree with you at all Peter, but what has come of that FBI investigation? I understand the Covid pandemic may have had an impact on its progress and continuation, but how many years is it now, with no further word, decision either one way or another, or even a hint of a possible resolution anytime soon? To my knowledge, any and all suspect parties seem to be carrying on with business as usual, and have really suffered no significantly discernible negative effects from being the potential targets of such an investigation.

And along those same lines, what has been going on with the BODA/Blowout guys blowing the whistle and outing all those resurfacing doctored cards that helped to start the investigation? I am not on Blowout, but seemed to almost regularly see postings and warnings on our forum of their ongoing discoveries of altered cards being put up for sale. Are they still doing that? I can't remember the last time I heard about their latest investigative findings/outings.

And as for the selling of altered cards and the potential fraud aspect of it, I wanted to make sure I fully understand your comment and point. Anyone can alter or doctor a card they own, that is no crime, period. And even if someone knowingly altered/doctored a card, their submission of it to any independent TPG for that TPG's opinion of said card is also in no way a criminal offense either, still correct, right? The trick and potential crime seems to start coming when the card is put up for sale/auction by an independent, third-party seller/AH the card doctor decides to sell the card through. If a card doctor goes to directly sell an item themself, say through Ebay, even if the card was mistakenly graded by a TPG I understand the card doctor as the actual, direct seller would still be considered responsible to inform potential buyers of the known alterations/restoration to the card, and can therefore potentially be subject to fraud implications and charges if they don't. But does that potential criminal liability for a card doctor dissipate, or possibly go away entirely, when instead of selling a card directly themself they opt to consign it to an independent third-party seller or AH?

If any third-party seller/AH that ends up selling an altered/restored card without proper disclosure is truly independent of the card doctor who consigned it to them, and was never made aware of the alterations/restoration to that card they were selling, I would think that at least technically they are not criminally liable and potentially guilty of fraud. And since I've never consigned anything for sale to a third-party seller/AH I have to ask, do any such sellers/AHs ever directly and specifically ask consignors of cards to be sold if they have been altered/restored to that consignor's knowledge, despite what a TPG may have graded and encapsulated a card as? And are there any specific federal/state/local laws that may otherwise require those sellers/AHs to ask such specific questions of consignors. Absent positive responses to either of these questions, I can see how the FBI's investigation may have stalled if one of their goals was to somehow implicate and charge these sellers/AHs/TPGs with being a potential party to such fraud.

But unless the card doctors can somehow get out of potential criminal fraud liability by using unrelated and independent TPGs, sellers, and AHs to kind of buffer and insulate them from such criminal fraud charges, I'm a bit surprised that the FBI's investigation hasn't then just focused on going after the card doctors. If for nothing else than to bring charges against them, and then use that as leverage to sway the card doctors to turn against the TPGs, sellers, and AHs that may in fact have been working in cahoots with those same card doctors all along after all. But maybe it is still too early in the FBI's investigation, and we just haven't reached that point yet.

So Peter, if the FBI's investigation is unable to link the TPGs, independent sellers, and AHs as conspiring and working with card doctors to defraud the public, you're saying the card doctors can 100% still be held criminally liable for fraud themselves under the way they seem to be selling their altered/restored cards now, right? Or is it possible that without air-tight evidence of collusive activity among the suspected parties involved that even with the Blowout/BODA investigative work and findings, the FBI may not be able to get convictions against individual card doctors alone from such evidence.

Our hobby does not have a definitive, agreed upon, single set of standards and measures, appears to be based a lot on mere opinions of supposed "expert" third parties that can very easily be shown and proven to lack consistency and whose opinions are ripe with errors and mistakes. Also, not all people in the hobby necessarily look down or disapprove of restorations or improvements being made to items like cards. In fact, arguably the most famous/infamous, as well as arguably most valuable, card in the hobby is now definitively known to have not been properly issued as it should have been, and deserves no numerical grade whatsoever. This isn't even debatable given the supposed standards the opining TPGs and the hobby as a whole supposedly promote and follow. And yet, the card's grade has never been corrected, nor has the TPG involved corrected the listing of the improperly graded item in their own population records. Start putting that kind of information and evidence in front of a jury of non-card collecting nerds, like most on this forum, and who knows what kind of reasonable doubts that could raise in just one juror's mind.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I have no idea about the status of the FBI investigation. Certainly, we have seen these things take even longer, you may recall that the indictment only came down recently for the T206 forgeries that happened if memory serves five or so years ago. I also speculate, and it's pure speculation, that if it had ended with no action, certain people would have been proclaiming their innocence in public. But again, I have no idea.

One of the three BODA guys is still active. I suspect the others just got back to their lives, it was a huge commitment of time and effort, all unpaid.

In my judgment a card doctor could not insulate himself from mail/wire fraud by arranging for someone else to make the sale, any more than the fact that the card doctor defrauded a TPG would somehow be a defense. The card doctor/consignor is still directly responsible for the misrepresentation/omission assuming he doesn't disclose it to the seller. I haven't researched it but I have to believe the statute would reach that. The AH or other seller, on the other hand, if innocent, and that's debatable in many of these situations, would not have the necessary mens rea to be guilty of a crime.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have no idea about the status of the FBI investigation. Certainly, we have seen these things take even longer, you may recall that the indictment only came down recently for the T206 forgeries that happened if memory serves five or so years ago. I also speculate, and it's pure speculation, that if it had ended with no action, certain people would have been proclaiming their innocence in public. But again, I have no idea.

One of the three BODA guys is still active. I suspect the others just got back to their lives, it was a huge commitment of time and effort, all unpaid.

In my judgment a card doctor could not insulate himself from mail/wire fraud by arranging for someone else to make the sale, any more than the fact that the card doctor defrauded a TPG would somehow be a defense. The card doctor/consignor is still directly responsible for the misrepresentation/omission assuming he doesn't disclose it to the seller. I haven't researched it but I have to believe the statute would reach that. The AH or other seller, on the other hand, if innocent, and that's debatable in many of these situations, would not have the necessary mens rea to be guilty of a crime.

I agree with your thinking, but was wondering from the legal side if you thought/knew there was possibly some specific ambiguity(ies) in the law that could potentially keep prosecutors from reaching that "beyond a reasonable doubt" level in juror's minds. Given all the inconsistencies and such as are in this hobby, a non-collector in looking at a lot of what we've come to accept as normal would likely laugh and roll their eyes at us collecting nerds.

And you're probably right about the FBI still being in the midst of investigating. No one has been, or looks to currently be, in danger of any physical harm or violence, so timing isn't as critical for the FBI to stop someone in this case. And the potential theft/loss some people may have initially incurred, when buying these altered cards from the card doctors selling them, could have been (and very likely was) quickly turned around and negated if and when these initial victims later turned around and then unknowingly resold these altered/doctored cards to other unsuspecting victims. In many cases for possibly even bigger profits and amounts than the card doctors got away with to start, given the huge jump in card prices in recent years.

And that leads to another question concerning such fraud. I know in the case of a card's theft, if after the theft the card changes hands a few times involving unsuspecting and innocent buyers, that card, if later discovered by authorities to have been taken in a theft, can forcibly be taken from the then current owner, and rightfully returned to the original theft victim. What would happen in a fraud case to the then current unsuspecting and innocent owner of a valuable card if it suddenly was discovered and came out during a trial of the person that originally doctored/altered the card that their card they now owned had been altered, and was now worth thousands of dollars less than they paid for it? And to further complicate things, the altered card you now own had changed hands several times after the initial sale by the card doctor, right after he first altered the card and then got it erroneously graded by some TPG. There's no theft victim for the card to be returned to, so without question you own the card. But now that its alterations are outed and you know it, you can't sell it to anyone else without fully disclosing those alterations (unless you now want to potentially be liable for fraud also). So say you do sell it, after properly disclosing the alterations, and lose your ass on it. What actual legal recourse(s) do you have, if any? Can you go back against the also innocent person/dealer you bought it from, or do you go back against the original card doctor? And what about the TPG that improperly graded it, can you just go back at them assuming they don't voluntarily make you whole for their original mistake, even though you never dealt with them personally in regard to getting the card graded? Or is this TPG issue further complicated by having to now go back and read, decipher, and interpret the various agreements and contracts that were signed and entered into at the time the card in question was graded, even though you were never involved nor signed or agreed to anything with the particular TPG that graded your card? Or are you just SOL, get hit with the loss, and can only end up checking with whatever insurance coverages you might have to see if by some miracle one of them will agree to cover and pay you at least something for your loss?

And I'm asking this as a very serious question, as given the presumed decades over which card doctors are believed to have been operating, and the unfathomable number of altered cards thought to be out in the hobby market/community today, the chances for any of us with even just a somewhat modest collection of graded cards to unknowingly have an altered card or two in our personal collections is a lot stronger than I know I'd ever care for it to be. I'm guessing the possibility of ever catching and really outing a truly significant percentage of these altered cards in the hobby is virtually nil. Despite the best efforts of the BODA/Blowout guys, they're probably lucky if they've even scratched the surface on what altered stuff is out there. But having said all that, who knows if the FBI investigation does not one day pan out, and they nail one of these card doctors, who then in cooperation with the feds to hopefully lessen their punishment and sentence turns over records and documentation of literally thousands of cards they've altered over the years, along with which TPG slabs (and cert #s) they got those cards into. So, in case something like that ever came to be, I know I'd like to be aware of my potential recourse options if I suddenly found cards I owned on such an outed list.

Any good thoughts, comments or legal advice in regard to the above?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Well, your first remedy might be to ask PSA to review it under their marketplace guarantee. Good luck with that. See Leaf Jackie Robinson.

There's probably a misrepresentation/mistake theory in most or all states under which you could seek rescission against your immediate seller, even if they're innocent, although there may be limitations issues depending on how long ago your purchased. But if the seller isn't willing to accept the return, are you really going to litigate it with all that entails?

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by BobC

Don't disagree with you at all Peter, but what has come of that FBI investigation? I understand the Covid pandemic may have had an impact on its progress and continuation, but how many years is it now, with no further word, decision either one way or another, or even a hint of a possible resolution anytime soon? To my knowledge, any and all suspect parties seem to be carrying on with business as usual, and have really suffered no significantly discernible negative effects from being the potential targets of such an investigation.

And along those same lines, what has been going on with the BODA/Blowout guys blowing the whistle and outing all those resurfacing doctored cards that helped to start the investigation? I am not on Blowout, but seemed to almost regularly see postings and warnings on our forum of their ongoing discoveries of altered cards being put up for sale. Are they still doing that? I can't remember the last time I heard about their latest investigative findings/outings.

And as for the selling of altered cards and the potential fraud aspect of it, I wanted to make sure I fully understand your comment and point. Anyone can alter or doctor a card they own, that is no crime, period. And even if someone knowingly altered/doctored a card, their submission of it to any independent TPG for that TPG's opinion of said card is also in no way a criminal offense either, still correct, right? The trick and potential crime seems to start coming when the card is put up for sale/auction by an independent, third-party seller/AH the card doctor decides to sell the card through. If a card doctor goes to directly sell an item themself, say through Ebay, even if the card was mistakenly graded by a TPG I understand the card doctor as the actual, direct seller would still be considered responsible to inform potential buyers of the known alterations/restoration to the card, and can therefore potentially be subject to fraud implications and charges if they don't. But does that potential criminal liability for a card doctor dissipate, or possibly go away entirely, when instead of selling a card directly themself they opt to consign it to an independent third-party seller or AH?

If any third-party seller/AH that ends up selling an altered/restored card without proper disclosure is truly independent of the card doctor who consigned it to them, and was never made aware of the alterations/restoration to that card they were selling, I would think that at least technically they are not criminally liable and potentially guilty of fraud. And since I've never consigned anything for sale to a third-party seller/AH I have to ask, do any such sellers/AHs ever directly and specifically ask consignors of cards to be sold if they have been altered/restored to that consignor's knowledge, despite what a TPG may have graded and encapsulated a card as? And are there any specific federal/state/local laws that may otherwise require those sellers/AHs to ask such specific questions of consignors. Absent positive responses to either of these questions, I can see how the FBI's investigation may have stalled if one of their goals was to somehow implicate and charge these sellers/AHs/TPGs with being a potential party to such fraud.

But unless the card doctors can somehow get out of potential criminal fraud liability by using unrelated and independent TPGs, sellers, and AHs to kind of buffer and insulate them from such criminal fraud charges, I'm a bit surprised that the FBI's investigation hasn't then just focused on going after the card doctors. If for nothing else than to bring charges against them, and then use that as leverage to sway the card doctors to turn against the TPGs, sellers, and AHs that may in fact have been working in cahoots with those same card doctors all along after all. But maybe it is still too early in the FBI's investigation, and we just haven't reached that point yet.

So Peter, if the FBI's investigation is unable to link the TPGs, independent sellers, and AHs as conspiring and working with card doctors to defraud the public, you're saying the card doctors can 100% still be held criminally liable for fraud themselves under the way they seem to be selling their altered/restored cards now, right? Or is it possible that without air-tight evidence of collusive activity among the suspected parties involved that even with the Blowout/BODA investigative work and findings, the FBI may not be able to get convictions against individual card doctors alone from such evidence.

Our hobby does not have a definitive, agreed upon, single set of standards and measures, appears to be based a lot on mere opinions of supposed "expert" third parties that can very easily be shown and proven to lack consistency and whose opinions are ripe with errors and mistakes. Also, not all people in the hobby necessarily look down or disapprove of restorations or improvements being made to items like cards. In fact, arguably the most famous/infamous, as well as arguably most valuable, card in the hobby is now definitively known to have not been properly issued as it should have been, and deserves no numerical grade whatsoever. This isn't even debatable given the supposed standards the opining TPGs and the hobby as a whole supposedly promote and follow. And yet, the card's grade has never been corrected, nor has the TPG involved corrected the listing of the improperly graded item in their own population records. Start putting that kind of information and evidence in front of a jury of non-card collecting nerds, like most on this forum, and who knows what kind of reasonable doubts that could raise in just one juror's mind.

bob, I suspect that the FBI has their hands full at the moment with the events unfolding at Mar a Lago and that lower priority cases are on hold.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Yoda

bob, I suspect that the FBI has their hands full at the moment with the events unfolding at Mar a Lago and that lower priority cases are on hold.

LOL

Great point, but that is a much more recent incident. Still, I hope the FBI prevails in both cases to getting the correct answers and just outcomes.