1915 Boston Red Sox Postcard vs 1905 W601 Detroit Tigers

[bcbgcbrcb]

Since this Red Sox postcard has now become so beloved in the hobby, I thought that it would be interesting to make the comparison to this Tigers item, both portray team images as opposed to the usually more popular individual appearance. It appears that the biggest selling point of the 1915 postcard is that it includes Ruth a year before his traditional M101-5 RC. And, of course, Ruth is top 5 all-time, likely even #1. The W601 pictures Cobb two years before his 1907 Wolverine/Taylor/Dietsche postcards. Apparently, some of the most respected board members here believe that the Red Sox postcard is worth every penny of the recent nearly $200K sale in Goldin. Meanwhile, there have been no recent public sales of the W601 but previous numbers have been in the $5K-$10K range. As far as I know, Cobb is also a top 5 player, all-time. So, what is wrong with this picture? I know, the W601 is oversize and obviously not a card. However, the postcard is also larger than a traditional card, and as a postcard, is not a card either. But let’s say the postcard is close enough and we call it a card. How about the nearly $100K sale of the ‘15 Red Sox pitching staff type 1 photo in Goldin. That one is 8X10 and obviously not a card at all nor is it catalogued, same as the ‘15 Red Sox postcard is not catalogued nor part of a set. However, the W601 is catalogued and is part of an annual issue which ran for 10 years and was also used as an advertising medium for a product, the Sporting Life newspaper.

To me the W601 should be at least in the same conversation as the Red Sox postcard but $5K vs. $200K? I can tell you which looks like the bigger bargain and smarter buy to me. Anyone else?

[oldjudge]

Phil—Good topic. I agree that the Cobb postcard may be undervalued but there is no way it should be close to the Ruth postcard. First, Ruth is a top 1 player, Cobb is a top 10 player, generally ranked in the 6-10 range. Second, composites are less popular than actual team photos. Third, Ruth was loved, Cobb was hated by many. There’s a start.

[Rhotchkiss]

I started a thread about this a while back. https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=353304

I agree the Ruth beats the Cobb all day, but I also feel the price difference should be less than it is.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Sorry, missed that, Ryan. But, my comparison was to the W601 Tigers premium, notice that I said 1905 as my year of issue. I know, very confusing and most likely the ONLY ACC designation where the same identifier was used for two totally different issues. Much of the same logic applies to the '06 postcard, however. I see from your previous post that most everyone agrees that the Ruth should be worth more than the Cobb but that the Cobb is quite undervalued. More than a year later, don't think the view on the W601 Cobb has changed at all, nor has the perceived value since I don't know of any actual public sales. Doesn't really make sense to me, my best guess is maybe 1% of collectors can afford the Ruth postcard today and maybe 25% can afford the W601 Cobb. You would think with a much larger audience, that would be the one escalating in value more rapidly, but it seems to be the opposite. Thus, once again, it has become that the REALLY BIG cards can no longer be acquirable by anyone except the extremely wealthy, which might make up 1% of the collectors out there. If I saved up for the rest of my life, I likely couldn't afford to buy the Ruth postcard. That's why I try to advocate for things that are still affordable for a larger percentage of collectors but it seems with each passing month/year, more and more of the REALLY BIG cards are falling by the wayside for the vast majority of us. We all want the best and not have to settle for only what we can afford. Only 5-10 years ago, it wasn't this way. Why does it seem that those with big money to spend were controlling themselves back then and avoiding crazy escalations in prices while today, it has become the Wild, Wild West with unlimited spending. Seems to take away some of the allure of the hobby to me. Of course, that is coming from the perspective of someone who falls into the latter category.

[calvindog]

Phil, owning both (plus the W601 Tigers PC), I can tell you that the W601 Premium is not in the same ballpark as the 1915 Red Sox PC for the reason you stated -- it's not a card. It's also not in the same ballpark as the W601 Tigers PC for that same reason. As for "smarter" buy, the Ruth team PC is a card, and has Ruth's first major league image on it. There's no player who is more important to collectors than Ruth. To compare the 1915 Red Sox PC to the 1905 W601 Tigers Premium is like comparing apples to a fire hydrant. Not even on the same planet.

The better comparison would be the 1915 Red Sox PC to the W601 Tigers PC and for the reasons described above, I'd agree that the Tigers PC featuring Cobb's first image is undervalued. But there's no way it will ever be worth what the 1915 Red Sox PC is worth -- Cobb does not compare to Ruth in the eyes of collectors.

To me, the argument that makes more sense is why the 1915 Red Sox PC is worth so much less than the 1916 M101-5 Ruth cards, especially when you consider the PC is a year earlier and has a way lower population. But as Jay pointed out, the PC doesn't feature Ruth alone, and well, there you have it.

I also lament prices going up but then again, I also decry young people stepping on my lawn. That's how the world works.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I started a thread about this a while back. https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=353304

I agree the Ruth beats the Cobb all day, but I also feel the price difference should be less than it is.

Phil, I think the most likely reasons are stated in the other thread that Ryan pointed out, namely, there are other "rookie" cards for Cobb that have much better eye appeal that collectors prefer with comparable postmark dates, and for Ruth, there are hardly any Red Sox cards available for him, so even a third year card like a 1918 Boston Store is worth over 100K.

Personally, I'm waiting for my faded c1916 postcard (that I paid ~$3500 in 2019) where you can barely see Ruth to hit six figures sometimes. It's even rarer than the W601! lol.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by glchen

Phil, I think the most likely reasons are stated in the other thread that Ryan pointed out, namely, there are other "rookie" cards for Cobb that have much better eye appeal that collectors prefer with comparable postmark dates, and for Ruth, there are hardly any Red Sox cards available for him, so even a third year card like a 1918 Boston Store is worth over 100K.

Personally, I'm waiting for my faded c1916 postcard (that I paid ~$3500 in 2019) where you can barely see Ruth to hit six figures sometimes. It's even rarer than the W601! lol.

Cool Piece Gary
IF you give up on it let me know.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Nice postcard, Gary. I had an accompanying Type 1 PSA photo taken from the same event likely only moments apart and at a different angle where Babe was partially obscured. Sold it last year, I think around $2,300, which was close to a grand below what I paid for it less than a year earlier. I guess comparing that one to the 15 Red Sox p/c is like comparing an apple to a fire hydrant.

Sorry, I couldn’t resist…..

[bcbgcbrcb]

Thanks, Jeff. Finally, someone has made a point that I can grasp and latch on to. Us long-time COLLECTORS controlled our spending just fine for many years but today’s post-COVID world has brought in countless individuals primarily looking to make a buck (or a million) and have brought the irresponsible spending into the hobby. Thus, those with the financial resources to do it, are forced to up their ante in order to keep collecting what they like, just costs a lot more for everything. In the meantime, the rest of us have to sit back and watch from afar and can only dream about acquiring a really big card like the ‘15 Ruth. 10 years ago that was a $10K or so card before the escalation started around 2015, much earlier than just about anything else. I guess at that time, the card had been severely undervalued. Just about the same time that the Gehrig exhibit exploded. Since then, the Gehrig has tailed off somewhat while the Ruth continues to escalate. Based on the “card” theory, how does the Gehrig exhibit become $100K in the first place, it’s basically a postcard.

[mrreality68]

Some Great points and the gap should be there but it should be less
But another factor is supply/demand

The early ruth cards are not very many and do not have alot of quantity

Cobb seems to have a ton of different Cards, Postcards, etc and many of them have a ton of quantity

So even though there are limited quantities of some cards there is so many alternates for collectors/investors to choose from for Cobb vs the Ruth

[calvindog]

There’s actually much fewer examples of the 1906 Tigers W601 PC which is the “true” Cobb rookie than the 1915 Red Sox PCs with Ruth.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by calvindog

There’s actually much fewer examples of the 1906 Tigers W601 PC which is the “true” Cobb rookie than the 1915 Red Sox PCs with Ruth.

Jeff
I 100% agree and if I stated my point wrong I appologize
my point was there are so many different type of early Cobb Cards, Postcards, and supplements etc. vs the number of types of early Ruth Card, Postcards etc
That it is easy to get something early Cobb item.

There are very few early 1915 or 1916 or even 1917 Ruth Cards vs all the Early
1905-1909 Cobb Items
Think of how many items are Called a "Cobb Rookie Card" vs the number of items called the "Ruth Rookie Card"

[oldjudge]

Phil--the market is what the market is. We are all priced out of some cards we might like. Appreciate what you can buy and stop whining about what you can't. The constitution guarantees a lot of things, but baseball cards is not one of them.