Astros sign stealing suspensions

[doug.goodman]

Wow.

The Red Sox and Alex Cora better be preparing for the next round...

[Jim65]

Alex should get much worse, involved for 2 different teams, and MLB thinks he's the mastermind behind it.

[packs]

I found the Astros punishment to be really weak. I mean, 5 million dollar fine? That's like fining me 5 bucks. If they really wanted to end cheating tomorrow, they'd lower the Astros luxury tax threshold by 30 million for the next decade and let them bleed.

[packs]

Also I don't understand how a guy who hacks a server in the offseason gets banned for life while a bunch of guys on the field cheating in game to win a World Series get 1 year bans.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by packs

I found the Astros punishment to be really weak. I mean, 5 million dollar fine? That's like fining me 5 bucks. If they really wanted to end cheating tomorrow, they'd lower the Astros luxury tax threshold by 30 million for the next decade and let them bleed.

$5mil is the maximum allowed by the league constitution.

[clydepepper]

Big WOW!!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Also took first two picks in draft for next two years. Basically a ban on the GM and Hinch too. Who's going to hire them now (They've been fired)

[packs]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

$5mil is the maximum allowed by the league constitution.

Does the constitution say anything about lowering the luxury tax threshold for a team?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

I found the Astros punishment to be really weak. I mean, 5 million dollar fine? That's like fining me 5 bucks. If they really wanted to end cheating tomorrow, they'd lower the Astros luxury tax threshold by 30 million for the next decade and let them bleed.

Since you found the Astros punishment to be really weak, how do you think the Yankees should be punished given what has come to light?

I find it funny how so many people voiced their opinions about the Astros cheating scandal, but are dead silent about the Yankees cheating scandal.

[butchie_t]

I don't like the fact that no team, player, manager, etc. got punished enough once it all came to light. MLB pretty much threw a blind eye to the entire thing and just wanted it to go away. Effectively wrist slaps and come on back and play.

Pete Rose, who is no saint in my book. Did much less in comparison and he was/is ostracized and shunned for his actions. IMHO

Everyone involved in cheating at this level should be facing a lifetime ban from the sport. But that will never happen.

Bring back the Mountain, he'll set things right.

My take on this cheating crap.

My take on why Houston has more focus than other teams is because they won the Series and were cheating. Still does not absolve any other team for doing this BTW.

Butch Turner

[Hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Since you found the Astros punishment to be really weak, how do you think the Yankees should be punished given what has come to light?



I find it funny how so many people voiced their opinions about the Astros cheating scandal, but are dead silent about the Yankees cheating scandal.

Yankees were punished. Astros were more bold and brazen with their actions so yeah they are getting killed. And they won so that adds to it.

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[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Hxcmilkshake

Yankees were punished. Astros were more bold and brazen with their actions so yeah they are getting killed. And they won so that adds to it.

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How were they punished? As far as I can tell, they were only fined $100K...unless I missed something else.

Besides, I think my point was missed. Here's a guy saying, "I found the Astros punishment to be really weak" but is absolutely silent when his own team gets caught. Do you not see the irony?

[egri]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Since you found the Astros punishment to be really weak, how do you think the Yankees should be punished given what has come to light?

I find it funny how so many people voiced their opinions about the Astros cheating scandal, but are dead silent about the Yankees cheating scandal.

While I've also noticed packs's selective blindness, he's only posted on the forum five times since October. I think that's the reason for his silence here.

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Alex should get much worse, involved for 2 different teams, and MLB thinks he's the mastermind behind it.

Cora is going to get hit very very hard...

[packs]

I was referring to Correa, but what does criminality have to do with violating the rules of baseball? Pete Rose wasn't banned for violating federal law.

In the most simplistic terms, Correa logged into his old account and looked at scouting reports in the off season.

I fail to see how what Correa did was more egregious to the game than what the Astros did. His lifetime ban is meant to deter behavior.

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by packs

I was referring to Correa, but what does criminality have to do with violating the rules of baseball? Pete Rose wasn't banned for violating federal law.

In the most simplistic terms, Correa logged into his old account and looked at scouting reports in the off season.

I fail to see how what Correa did was more egregious to the game than what the Astros did. His lifetime ban is meant to deter behavior.

Well, as to the last part you write, I guess that's just different viewpoints. Breaking a federal law is more egregious on many levels. And look at the facts of Correa, because it wasn't his old account, he hacked into the Astros computers more than 48 times.

[packs]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

Well, as to the last part you write, I guess that's just different viewpoints. Breaking a federal law is more egregious on many levels. And look at the facts of Correa, because it wasn't his old account, he hacked into the Astros computers more than 48 times.

I suppose the weight of a federal crime might have influenced the lifetime ban, but you can also ban players and personnel for damage to the game. Alex Rodriguez was suspended for an entire season because of his conduct off the field. These are players and personnel whose conduct ON the field conceivably altered the outcomes of games in real time. Yet the penalties meted out for A-rod, a player who took PEDs, are the same as the penalties meted out for the GM and manager of a team actively cheating in game. Altering the outcomes of games has traditionally been something you get a lifetime ban for.

[egri]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

Cora is going to get hit very very hard...

He was fired earlier today.

[todeen]

1) I thought players should have been penalized somehow, perhaps monetarily - like returning the postseason bonus.

2) I still thought this was better than NCAA consequences. I have always thought vacating wins and championships was a stupid idea. One cannot simply make a season disappear.

3) As the NCAA has proven, coaches and leaders who have made poor life choices are always able to be rehired after a period of reflection and a public apology. Especially small schools looking for an edge. Just look at Mike Leach.

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[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by todeen

1) I thought players should have been penalized somehow, perhaps monetarily - like returning the postseason bonus.

2)... I have always thought vacating wins and championships was a stupid idea. One cannot simply make a season disappear.

1 - I agree 100%, every player on the roster, and coaches, manager should be fined the amount of their WS "winning" share.

2 - I completely disagree. It's not making a season disappear, it's making the statement that they did not "win".

MLB should take the trophy back, too, if only to make the statement.

Doug

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

1 - I agree 100%, every player on the roster, and coaches, manager should be fined the amount of their WS "winning" share.

2 - I completely disagree. It's not making a season disappear, it's making the statement that they did not "win".

MLB should take the trophy back, too, if only to make the statement.

Doug

Yes, I agree.

[Nunzio11]

Now there are claims that Altuve and Bregman were wearing devices that buzzed for certain pitches. That could just be internet nonsense or this thing could get very interesting.

[parker1b2]

Originally Posted by Nunzio11

Now there are claims that Altuve and Bregman were wearing devices that buzzed for certain pitches. That could just be internet nonsense or this thing could get very interesting.

https://www.nj.com/yankees/2020/01/m...PUFXxVPgswmgEE

[todeen]

Responding to #2: I think that the real lesson is the sadness that it can't be undone. It stands forever as a stain. It took away a possible career defining moment for Kershaw and Darvish.

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[drcy]

In these types of situations, I am a firm believer in taking away the championship, removing it eternally from the records. I think that's the best punishment.

[steve B]

In general I don't agree with removing titles.

They did that in cycling, and removed all Lance Armstrongs titles. In other cases the win went to the second place finisher. (Also done in other sports)
Except... in one of the years the top finisher who could be thought of as totally clean was 23rd or something like that. So there are no winners for seven years.

In Team sports it's just silly.
One guy gets paid, so everyone "loses" a title, and players years later lose the opportunity to play in bowl games.
Sure, punish the people who were outside the rules, but punishing players who didn't cheat, and players years later - Like USC which was punished in 2010 for stuff done in 2004-5. None of the players in 2010 or 2011 were even on the team the coach had even left.

[packs]

I'm not one for forfeiting titles either. I think an apt punishment for the players on the Astros postseason rosters would be to take the bonuses back and give them to the players on the teams they cheated to beat.

[TNP777]

To me, this scandal is second only to the 1919 Black Sox. An entire team, over the course of an entire season plus the postseason, conspired to use illegal technology to gain an advantage over their opponents. Regardless of active participation or silent partnership, the entire team made a mockery of the game and the game's integrity. Every team was explicitly warned in September 2017, yet the Astros continued to cheat. That is symptomatic of an organization that has lost its moral and ethical compass, top to bottom.

It's too bad Manfred is loathe to take on the union, and that he apparently thinks the union also lacks a moral and ethical compass. If Manfred had any cojones, he'd get together with Tony Clark and get him to agree suspensions would a major step to rebuilding the integrity of the game within their own player base and the fanbase. It ticks me off to no end that no player will see any punishment from their cheating.

Further, the 2017 title should be vacated. Again, Manfred lacks the spine to make it happen, so Astros owner Jim Crane should step up and do the right thing. The Astros are going to get crucified wherever they go in 2020. Fans will be merciless. Can you imagine the good will Crane could build up if he were to vacate his own title?

And I do mean vacate. The Dodgers lost in 2017 and 2018 to the eventual "champions", but so did the Yankees. It can never be known who would have prevailed in either season had the Astros and Red Sox not cheated. Two blank years, one now and one after the Boston investigation is over, would set the tone for all time.

[Runscott]

One more thing to add. As a lifelong Astros fan, my perspective is different. The sports talking heads keep repeating how horrible this is for Dodgers fans, etc. Hey, it's also horrible for Astros fans. It's not like, as fans, we wanted a World Series at all costs. That's on the team, and it's an embarrassment to us fans. I have World Series bunting that hung in the Astros stadium during the World Series games, and I doubt it will ever come out of the drawer now.

[doug.goodman]

One of the headlines on MLB.com is "Keuchel apologizes for '17 Astros' sign-stealing".

Which is MLB's way of saying "look they're sorry, isn't that punishment enough?"




Here are four quotes from his "apology", with my translations :

1 - "...it sucks to the extent of the clubhouse rule that was broken. I mean, that’s where I’ll go with that. I don’t really have much else to say about Mike.”

Which means : Mike Friars should have kept our secret, he shouldn't have told his new teammates that his old teammates were going to cheat, fuck that guy.



2 - "When stuff comes out about things that happened during the course of a big league ball season, it’s always blown up to the point of, ‘Oh my gosh, this has never happened before.’ I mean, I’m not going to go into specific details."

Which means : It wasn't really that big of a deal, everybody does it.



3 - “But during the course of the playoffs in ’17, everybody was using multiple signs. For factual purposes, when there’s nobody on base, when in the history of Major League Baseball has there been multiple signs? You can go back and watch film of every team in the playoffs. There was probably six out of eight teams using multiple signs. It’s just what the state of baseball was at that point and time"

Which means : we had to cheat, 6 of the 8 teams are using multiple signs, how else could we break their codes?



4 - "Was it against the rules? Yes, it was. I personally am sorry for what’s come about, the whole situation. But it is what it is, and we have to move past that. I never thought anything would have come like it did, and I myself am sorry. We have to move on.”

Which means : I am sorry that it's come out how we won. But we still have the trophy, and we still have our World Series bonuses, so really it's not that big of a deal. Neener neener neener, we won, hahahaha.


Fuck him.

According to the commissioner of baseball, "virtually all of the Astros’ players had some involvement or knowledge of the scheme"


Here is the list, 25 names to be written next to Shoeless Joe and Eddie Cicotte :

Juan Centeno
Evan Gattis
Brian McCann
Jose Altuve
Alex Bregman
Carlos Correa
Marwin Gonzalez
Yuli Gurriel
Carlos Beltran
Derek Fisher
Cameron Maybin
Josh Reddick
George Springer
Dallas Keuchel
Francisco Liriano
Chris Devenski
Ken Giles
Luke Gregerson
Will Harris
Lance McCullers, Jr.
Collin McHugh
Charlie Morton
Joe Musgrove
Brad Peacock
Justin Verlander

Fuck all of them.

Doug "potty mouth" Goodman

[Runscott]

I was excited when I heard that "a former Astros player" was going to apologize. Even more so when I found out it was Keuchel.

Less so when I listened to his apology. He's just made my very short MLB douchebag list.

[doug.goodman]

"Marwin Gonzalez was openly remorseful and apologized for his role in the Astros' sign-stealing scandal"

Quickly pushed off the front page of the MLB home page, because they want us to just get over it and move on and be excited about the possibility of 28 teams making the playoffs in the near future.

Doug "sarcasm" Goodman

[Marckus99]

Who cares they were stealing.

The game has sucked for years now.

I can’t bear to watch a single game.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Wow.

The Red Sox and Alex Cora better be preparing for the next round...

What was the Red Sox punishment? I musta missed it

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

What was the Red Sox punishment? I musta missed it

I don't think it's been released. They keep pushing it back.

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