1952 Mays on ebay

[orly57]

Was anyone watching that psa 2 Mays that sold on ebay for 2150? It looks like a 7, and I couldnt figure out how or why it is a 2. I wanted to ask you guys your thoughts, but didnt want to bring it up until after it sold. What do you guys think? It sold for what some 5s sell for. Worth it?

[GasHouseGang]

It's really hard to tell for sure from the scan, but there appears to be a bend to the left of Willy's head that runs about 2/3rds the length of the card. PSA isn't in the habit of giving a 2 to a card that nice for no reason.

[orly57]

David, I didnt say that PSA conspired against this card. I am sure they have their reason for the technical grade. My post was really meant to begin a discussion on the value of a technical grade vs. the value of a card's appearance and presentation. If that slab on this card had a 7 on it instead of a 2, I dont think you would question it for a second. I personally buy the card and not the holder, so I prefer this card to MOST 52 Mays cards that come up regardless of the grade. Find me a nicer one in ANY grade. My question to the board was intended to start discussion on grade vs presentation for purposes of collectibility AND value. Usually, my practice of buying the card and not the holder saves me money because I get a beautiful card at a lesser grade. In this instance, however, we have a card that with the lowly grade of a 2 has sold for what some 5s sell for (and i believe rightfully so). I am curious as to the opinions of others on the issue.

[ajquigs]

Sorry ... accidental dupe post ... glitchy mouse.

[ajquigs]

I agree that this Mays card seems to be a good illustration that grades are mainly objective assessments of condition (not subjective assessments of appeal). As David said, this card has flaws that will be evident with the card in hand unless the grade is a huge swing-and-a-miss by PSA; which is possible but unlikely to me especially since I think human nature would cause a grader to take a little extra care knowing he's grading a '52 Mays.

Thus, to me it's a question of the nature of the flaws that can't be seen on the scan. Based on the '2' grading standard (copied below) I guess there may be creases and little to no surface gloss. Before buying this Mays card I would definitely seek a lot of details - and probably additional scans - from the seller. In my experience a number of sellers will provide you a fair description of the flaws if you ask.

When buying a low grade card I think of the Ott scanned below. It has a raised ridge, not just a crease, running the length of the card through his face. It's visible, but not very obvious on the scan. The way I have it displayed - in a case along with other lower grade DS HOFers - the flaw doesn't stand out and I'm okay with it. Naturally, my standards for a $2,000+ card would be very different.

A PSA Good 2 card's corners show accelerated rounding and surface wear is starting to become obvious. A good card may have scratching, scuffing, light staining, or chipping of enamel on obverse. There may be several creases. Original gloss may be completely absent. Card may show considerable discoloration. Centering must be 90/10 or better on the front and back.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by orly57

David, I didnt say that PSA conspired against this card. I am sure they have their reason for the technical grade. My post was really meant to begin a discussion on the value of a technical grade vs. the value of a card's appearance and presentation. If that slab on this card had a 7 on it instead of a 2, I dont think you would question it for a second. I personally buy the card and not the holder, so I prefer this card to MOST 52 Mays cards that come up regardless of the grade. Find me a nicer one in ANY grade. My question to the board was intended to start discussion on grade vs presentation for purposes of collectibility AND value. Usually, my practice of buying the card and not the holder saves me money because I get a beautiful card at a lesser grade. In this instance, however, we have a card that with the lowly grade of a 2 has sold for what some 5s sell for (and i believe rightfully so). I am curious as to the opinions of others on the issue.

we dont know who bought the card..theres a question whether its a legit sale...if a real person on this board bought the card that would end the question of legitimacy of the sale.....anyway until people stop selling the holder and not the card...the holder matters more than people admit..

[1952boyntoncollector]

the winning bidder on that mays psa 2 came out of nowhere

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Item description:
Item Title:
1952 Topps #261 Willie Mays New York Giants HOF PSA 2 GOOD " AWESOME CENTERING "
Bids on this item: 1

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1
Items bid on: 1
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 100% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0

[begsu1013]

where's a pic of the back?

the slightest hint of paper loss w/ overall eye appeal like that would auto knock it down to a 2, thus being graded properly.

happens all the time and usually end up being steals.

[Brianruns10]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

It's really hard to tell for sure from the scan, but there appears to be a bend to the left of Willy's head that runs about 2/3rds the length of the card. PSA isn't in the habit of giving a 2 to a card that nice for no reason.

When PSA gives a grade like this, it must be for a reason. And sometimes photos don't show that reason. For example, I bought a '52 Durocher that was PSA 4 but my god the corners and the color...it was a surefire PSA 7 to my mind. I couldn't figure out what they were thinking...until I got the card in hand and saw there was a hairline crease that transected Durocher's face. Very subtle but definitely there. A good lesson learned.

[begsu1013]

previous card owner contacted me (and laughing at all of this) but the card did have a very minute surface wrinkle that isn't visible in scans.

all part of it and while it blows away the technical grade, I'd probably crack and resubmit. worth a shot or two.

and I doubt very seriously this guy shilled this auction or the pete rose 7 that was being talked about in another thread.

there's no need for him to do it, especially on these...

[pokerplyr80]

With the market the changing so fast it's easy to jump to conclusions and conspiracy theories. Who knows exactly how much, if any, of what's going around is true, but sometimes a collector just steps up and spends big to get a nice card.

[TheNightmanCometh]

I'm telling you, it's oil money gone wild.