Joe Namath and the 1965 Topps set

[TanksAndSpartans]

Why does this card command the prices it does? (recently did an eBay search for sold listings of PSA graded examples of this card)

I’m not trying to disparage Joe at all, he’s a hall of famer and I think would appear in most lists of the top 25 QBs of all time. The card is a short print, which explains some of the high price, but I don't get the sense the card is an extreme rarity, right? Interestingly, from my own observations, I think most casual and modern (meaning not much interest in history) football fans feel Namath is in some sense “overrated”. I don’t agree with that, just wondering about the popularity of the card. Could his “celebrity” be inflating the price after all these years?

Looking at: “The Top 100: NFL's Greatest Players” television series, every player has a “mainstream” rookie card:

http://www.psacard.com/PSASetRegistr...on.aspx?c=8537

Sure, the list doesn’t include a lot of stars from the 20s-50s which means lots of cards from recent times (the era when sports cards were produced in relatively large quantities and preserved relatively well), but for arguments sake its a list of a lot of the game’s all-time greats. Among those 100 cards, I believe only the Nagurski sells for higher prices than the Namath (doing an apples to apples comparison regarding condition) (maybe 33 GSK Thorpe 3rd?). I'd be really surprised if we could get someone who knows about football, but not football cards to ever guess that... (The question would need to be framed carefully though - condition could be kept constant by say choosing the PSA 5 grade. The trickier part would be to mathematically adjust all the prices such that if there were 300 Jim Brown PSA 5s, but only 50 Bob Lilly PSA 5s, we'd need to increase Brown's price and decrease Lilly's to keep quantity constant at say 100 - just an example.)

Finally, I don't recall seeing 65 "tall boys" in anyone's favorite set list. Is it a favorite set? Technically, I believe its AFL only, right? I think Philadelphia had NFL.

Thanks for any opinions. And feel free to take the thread in different directions - discussion of the 65 Topps set and even the NFL top 100 list are both relevant.

[Econteachert205]

I just think it's one of those iconic status symbol cards. It has the "it" factor. Illogical consumerism at its finest. I have to say that if I were to make a list of vintage football rookies I want jim Brown would be 1 and Namath 2. Why? Why don't I want Bart Starr or Johnny U or Staubach? I can't really tell you other than it doesn't do anything for me to have those cards.

[HRBAKER]

Never really understood it either, larger than life figure and card I guess.
Would he be a Top 25 all-time QB?

[pawpawdiv9]

I think the variety of flambouyant colors on the 65 big boys are eyecatching. The size alone is another factor. It is an appealing set, a fellow board member (Blackie) did this set -not sure if he completed it or not. But i seen most of them on the SGC board and its amazing. I dont know why its important to have the Namath, maybe becasue he was a icon during when we watched Brett Farve so many years. Along with his shazzy fur coat and Yorker slang and swagger, he is up there on my list with the other ol' Joe.

[skelly]

Personally the card does nothing for me. I sold my 65 set a few years ago and haven't missed it one bit, while I've regretted selling my 63 set. To be fair it does seem a little rarer than your Jim Brown, Johnny Unitas Rookies. For whatever reason, even at big shows, you won't find many dealers that have the Namath Rookie on them, maybe storage is just a pain, I don't know, but even when dealers have stacks of 50's and 60's, you just don't see a lot of 65 football. Similar to Mantle cards being worth more than Mays, Aaron, etc... I think the New York factor plays big. The college career at Alabama can't hurt either.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Great replies! Some intangibles I didn’t think of like the "it" factor. And I don’t make it to shows, but I can see how the cards not showing up much could create some mystique around the set.

Someone asked about the top 25 - there’s lots not to like about ranking lists - difficulty of comparing across eras, football being a team game, statistics can be much more deceptive than say baseball where there really is a large individual aspect especially on offense, etc.

But, for the sake of discussion, the NFL top 100 ranked 19 QBs (I was a bit surprised it wasn't the most at any position - there were actually 20 RB on the list):

1. Joe Montana
2. Johnny Unitas
3. Otto Graham
4. Sammy Baugh
5. John Elway
6. Dan Marino
7. Sid Luckman
8. Roger Staubach
9. Bart Starr
10. Terry Bradshaw
11. Brett Favre
12. Peyton Manning
13. Tom Brady
14. Steve Young
15. Fran Tarkenton
16. Troy Aikman
17. Norm Van Brocklin
18. Kurt Warner
19. Joe Namath

So it would take 7 guys to squeeze Joe out of the top 25. I guess a case could be made, but I don’t think I would make the case. Here is what HOF says:

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/me...tab=Highlights

If I did have to choose 7 more QBs though, off the top of my head: Bobby Layne, Ken Anderson, Len Dawson, Dan Fouts, Sonny Jurgenson, Jim Kelly, and John Brodie make 7. I'm sure I forgot some.

And I just realized, what about some of the guys from the early days? (Dutch Clark, Paddy Driscoll, Benny Friedman, Arnie Herber, etc.) I think they mostly threw out of the single-wing, so may be considered more tailback than quarterback, but shouldn't players from every era be on the list? That would make it interesting, not sure what the methodology would be for say comparing Dutch Clark and Drew Brees.

[sockwell123]

I wouldn't mind having this card.. tho it's out of my price range.

There's a decent little wikipedia article on Namath talking about when the AFL and NFL merged and Super Bowl 3.. it's got some good info in it if remotely interested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Namath

I can remember the flexall 454 commercials as a kid... and watching Super Bowl 3 highlights with the John Facenda narration.!

[LuckyLarry]

I have the '65 Topps set completed and I love the tall boys! They are just so unique. The backs are pretty awesome too! I'll post a picture of my beat up Namath card, but try finding a Biletnikoff RC (SP) next time you are at a card show. That card is tough as well!
Larry

[LuckyLarry]

Here's a picture of my set I just took. I actually have an extra Biletnikoff RC I guess I'm saving him for a rainy day I was at a card shop in Denver a couple of years ago and it was in his showcase priced at $40 so I scooped it up
Larry