PSA grade head scratcher

[LKeeler]

Hey guys, needed some advice concerning a recent PSA submission, and mainly when and if I need to ask them what happened. I had a E92 Wagner SGC 4 Wagner Throwing. I am putting together a PSA graded set and wanted the Wags as PSA so cracked it out of the SGC slab. This is no big deal as I do it all of the time as the SGC cases are extremely easy to get the card out of safely. So I extract the card safely, inspect it, and know for a fact that it is wrinkle/crease free and is a solid 4. Off the card goes to PSA, Super Express service. The card gets graded, and is posted as a 2. Now I know about the grading game and it is often like Russian Roulette and "player beware", but I have to assume that something happened to the card to turn into a 2. So my question is, do I call PSA now and figure out WTH, or wait until the card arrives and see for myself? I have attached a scan of the card. Thanks!

[KCRfan1]

You're right, it is Russian Roulette. There is human element involved in grading and in the PSA graders eye, the card graded a 2. A grade by one company does not mean you get the same grade from another. Perhaps SGC was generous in the grade to begin with. Are you wanting another 4 or would you be happy with a 3 as you are clearly not happy with the 2. ( I understand grading and reselling and how grading affects the value ) Why not crack and resub to try to get the desired grade? I know many on the board here will much to say about your cross over grade. as this subject has been beaten to death.

[LKeeler]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

You're right, it is Russian Roulette. There is human element involved in grading and in the PSA graders eye, the card graded a 2. Perhaps SGC was generous in the grade to begin with. Why not crack and resub to try to get the desired grade? I know many on the board here will much to say about your cross over grade. as this subject has been beaten to death.

Thanks Lou. You are right. My biggest question I guess is if it got damaged "in the shop" so to speak, when is the best time to address it: when they still have it, or when it gets returned? I would assume that if this was the case I would have been notified, or would I just get a creased, graded card returned?

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

You're right, it is Russian Roulette. There is human element involved in grading and in the PSA graders eye, the card graded a 2. Perhaps SGC was generous in the grade to begin with. Why not crack and resub to try to get the desired grade? I know many on the board here will much to say about your cross over grade. as this subject has been beaten to death.

I tend to agree with you, Lou, but I really want to know what the principal reason for the lower grade is. A 2 is indicative they're seeing some kind of damage to the card that I just don't see in the scan. I've been checking it out in Photoshop, and I see nothing that would warrant that kind of a grade (again, operating under the assumption that what we are seeing accurately represents the current condition of the card @ PSA)



I see no creases or wrinkles, no paper loss, nothing in my comparatively limited experience with pre-war card grading that could justify this grade.

[the 'stache]

Luke, I would contact them immediately, and get an explanation as to why the grade is so much lower than you anticipated.

If those front and back scans you've provided with your posts are recent, and indicative of the card's quality prior to submission (and you know for a fact that you did not damage the card by removing it, or placing it into the card saver you used to ship it), then I hate to say it, but it's highly possible that somebody at PSA mishandled the card, and you should be due a cash credit to compensate for the loss of value. The only other explanation is that the card somehow shifted en route.

Did you happen to re-scan the card again after cracking it?

I'm so sorry this happened to you. It's a beautiful card, and no amount of cash is going to make up for the damage that might have been done. But make sure to get satisfaction, and let us know what happens.

Good luck!

Bill

[LKeeler]

Thanks Bill. The only scan was before I cracked. I didn't take one afterwards because the scanner at work probably hasn't been cleaned in 10 years! Yes, perhaps it did shift during it's travels but I am pretty confident that my packaging was up to snuff. Will keep you posted.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by LKeeler

Thanks Bill. The only scan was before I cracked. I didn't take one afterwards because the scanner at work probably hasn't been cleaned in 10 years! Yes, perhaps it did shift during it's travels but I am pretty confident that my packaging was up to snuff. Will keep you posted.

I'm saying a little prayer for ya, Luke. Here's hoping there's a simple explanation, that they goofed, and your card is ok.

[LKeeler]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

I'm saying a little prayer for ya, Luke. Here's hoping there's a simple explanation, that they goofed, and your card is ok.

I hope so too, Bill. The photoshop images that you did were pretty cool, thanks!

[Moonlight Graham]

Luke, I know you wanted the whole set to be PSA graded, but I have to ask: why didn't you just send it in the SGC slab and go for a crossover? I know PSA may not have given it to you but then at the very least you would have been stuck with that beautiful 4 in a SGC slab, which, in my opinion looks really sharp. But I am sorry that it didn't work out for you and hopefully no damage was done to your card.
Joe

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Luke, I would contact them immediately, and get an explanation as to why the grade is so much lower than you anticipated.

If those front and back scans you've provided with your posts are recent, and indicative of the card's quality prior to submission (and you know for a fact that you did not damage the card by removing it, or placing it into the card saver you used to ship it), then I hate to say it, but it's highly possible that somebody at PSA mishandled the card, and you should be due a cash credit to compensate for the loss of value. The only other explanation is that the card somehow shifted en route.

Did you happen to re-scan the card again after cracking it?

I'm so sorry this happened to you. It's a beautiful card, and no amount of cash is going to make up for the damage that might have been done. But make sure to get satisfaction, and let us know what happens.

Good luck!

Bill

You're right on re the damage, Bill. Back in the late '90's, I submitted what was clearly a NrMt or MrMt-Mt '70 Topps Reggie Jackson to PSA, and it came back as a "5," presumably due to a dinged corner which it most definitively did not have when I mailed it off.

Regards,

Larry

[glynparson]

they made an exception for Honus, should they no but they often do. just like many wagners are a grade higher than they really should be.I have seen some really ugly psa 2s. Every rule has an exception which proves the rules, lol. You can not opt out of mk for pen or pencil they even stated that on the email. you also can not opt out of MC. If a card is both mc and mk they will either return no charge unholdered or give it a 1 mk from what i was told. I have submitted 10 thousand+ cards to PSA i do not just pull my responses from my rear end.
Not sure where you got some implication of better grades il Padrino whomever you are, but i was implying i probably understand their protocol more than someone who has rarely or never dealt with them. Your response was asinine. Plus in 22 years i have asked them many questions and already received many answers a newbie would not know. Your implication was both insulting and ignorant.
Leon his name should be in the post.

[Bliggity]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Not sure where you got some implication of better grades il Padrino whomever you are, but i was implying i probably understand their protocol more than someone who has rarely or never dealt with them. Your response was asinine. Plus in 22 years i have asked them many questions and already received many answers a newbie would not know. Your implication was both insulting and ignorant.
Leon his name should be in the post.

Nothing like getting mad at a post from 21 months ago

[glynparson]

do you have a time machine so i can go back and see it earlier?

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

You're right on re the damage, Bill. Back in the late '90's, I submitted what was clearly a NrMt or MrMt-Mt '70 Topps Reggie Jackson to PSA, and it came back as a "5," presumably due to a dinged corner which it most definitively did not have when I mailed it off.

Regards,

Larry

I'm really sorry that happened, Larry. That's the kind of horror story that has me paranoid about sending my cards in for grading. You can take every precaution imaginable in packaging and shipping the card. But you can't control for the person(s) on the other end, and no matter what their credentials or experience may be in handling cards, it only takes one lapse in concentration to ruin your prized possession.

Having seen some of the spectacular (and rare) examples you all have in your collections, it's clear there are cards for which there is no replacement. You might get the monetary value of the card, but some cards are priceless. And when you consider how these beauties have managed to make it a century, or a century and a half without any major damage, that's frightening and sad.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

I feel for you but this one of the risks of rolling the dice.


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[oldjudge]

Pretty nice 2

[scottglevy]

Perhaps just slightly off topic....but had a most unusual experience with PSA recently. A card that my dad and I sent to them (incidentally a T206 Tolstoi Cy Young) was listed in their grading report as Evid Trim.

Some cards are borderline instances but there is NO WAY that this card was trimmed. My dad called them immediately and asked for them to provide a more detailed explanation for their grading opinion before sending the card back (e.g. where was it trimmed, etc).

PSA agreed to do so and in their evaluation changed their grade to 4.5. I have to say that I'm really impressed by the willingness to admit they made a mistake and then rectify it.

[Bridwell]

I've had 3 situations where a nice card with no creases came back as a PSA 2. All three times it turned out there was a small amount of glue residue on the back. If you can feel the glue residue, or see a shiny area on the back then that is your problem. It is likely to keep coming back as a PSA 2 if re-submitted.

Once I got lucky and was able to wet the card and rub off the residue. The card came back as a PSA 6.

[freakhappy]

I hear what you're saying, but it is a positive opinion and I could be wrong, but Leon wasn't as harsh on this sort of stuff. IMO if this merits a full name, then pretty much everything does.


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[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

I hear what you're saying, but it is a positive opinion and I could be wrong, but Leon wasn't as harsh on this sort of stuff. IMO if this merits a full name, then pretty much everything does.


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Originally Posted by Leon

Here is the deal. I am tired of reminding members to put their full names by posts where they give opinions...good, bad or indifferent. Later today, and from here on out for the foreseeable future, I will be adding full names per the rules...and when I add them there won't be any going back as they are permanent. If you don't like it, I don't care. If you don't want your full name attached to your opinion of someone or a business, then don't post one. Thanks and happy collecting....


here is the verbiage, at the top of every page, that no one seems to read but will be more enforced from here on out...

"If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post."



.

Originally Posted by Leon

Hi Chris
I will have to go back over the rules and refine them if they are not clear. The rule is fairly easy though. Just like it says at the top of every page. It doesn't say what kind of opinion on purpose. That is because ANY opinion positive or negative should really have a full name by it. That being said the name rule is enforced much less due to positive remarks than negative ones. The reason it's there is for the mere fact we don't know if the person saying something positive is a shill for whomever they speak of. I know it sounds a bit far fetched, but it isn't. I don't want this place to be sterile either so try not to come down too hard too often. But when I see thread(s) on the main page, with multiple people in each one, giving negative opinions or remarks anonymously, then I have to say something. It's important, imo, to keep the rule in place. I am on a few other boards, which allow anonymity even when bashing, and I think it sucks.

Here is a person giving an opinion about a company and for all we know it could be an employee at PSA that is telling us that PSA is more strict and you get more money for selling their cards.

[j_cook]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

Here is a person giving an opinion about a company and for all we know it could be an employee at PSA that is telling us that PSA is more strict and you get more money for selling their cards.

I most certainly don't work for PSA. My post was based on my personal experience, which I suppose could be considered a small sample size. I'll keep the "opinion of companies" thing in mind for future posts, though.

[freakhappy]

Very true Andy. I guess I'm just used to the way it has been for a while now. It doesn't bother me either way...just seemed like a harmless post, but you bring good points to the table.


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