Valuing Authentic Cards vs. PSA/SGC Poor 10/1

[SetBuilder]

Why do some collectors consider cards graded authentic to be below a "1" or "Poor" grade? I've heard the term "PSA 0/SGC 0" used by some sellers on eBay and on the forum before. I find this odd, because an authentic label does not convey any grading at all.

The authentic label is meant to infer the absense of a numerical grade. It is the TPG's way of saying "we deem this card to have a defect, but we will not issue an opinion on the grade." In this way, the TPG's defer opinion on a 1-10 scale and instead evaulate the authenticity only with no numerical grade implied.

I've noticed that some authentic cards can sell at or below the price of a poor condition card. In some cases, collectors would rather avoid a trimmed authentic with no creases or rounded corners, and choose a Poor/Good card instead with noticable defects to avoid the stigma of the authentic.

Is this an example of collectors being irrational?

[ullmandds]

authentic graded cards usually imply alterations were done...ie trimming, color added, etc...hence the lower value/price.

[terjung]

To me, it really depends on why the card was deemed authentic. Some get the label because they were trimmed to look more minty. Others get the label because of a piece of tape on the back. Others get it because too much of the card is missing.

To me, I look at a card differently if it was altered with apparent malicious intent (in order to attempt to increase its value) than I do if it is deemed authentic due to some other technical reason - like the piece of tape for example. I can see the value being above, below, or equal to a "1" grade depending on why it is "A" and depending on its appearance.

I wouldn't equate an "A" to a "0".

[drc]

Most cards graded by PSA and SGC as Authentic are altered. That's why they got that designation.

I've seen many good looking Auth cards sell for well above their grade value.

There are instances where unaltered cards get the AUTH grade, such as autographed cards, where the seller asked only for the AUTH grade and rare/oddball/esoteric/unusual cards where the graders don't have enough experience/knowledge of the issue to grade.

[Tyler]

I have never let the "A" designation bother me. It has allowed me to purchase original vintage cards, with wonderful eye appeal, at a tremendously discounted price.
I have definitely paid a premium over a beater "1" or "2". But I personally would rather have these. I understand both sides... to each his own.

[steve B]

That's one of the reasons I wish they'd put the reason on the flip. Many that get the A grade are trimmed or altered, but some are just cards that are undersize or have unusual cuts. When I get those back they have the reason on the grading slip, and online it shows the rejection code so why not put it on the flip? there's plenty of room for a rejection code.

I understand why they won't grade them. Too many people would see an undersize card and instantly think trimmed. So it's not worth putting it out there with a grade. But Something like A (MS) for a factory cut but undersize card shouldn't be all that hard.

Going just by looks, many of the A cards look great. And if that's what someone collects that's not so bad. I have a couple that I won't bother to upgrade that were rejected as miscut or too small. And another that's trimmed that's a really great looking card. It's hard to justify buying a less attractive card that's even VG.

Steve B

[DICKTOWLE]

[QUOTE=steve B;1104831]That's one of the reasons I wish they'd put the reason on the flip. Many that get the A grade are trimmed or altered, but some are just cards that are undersize or have unusual cuts. When I get those back they have the reason on the grading slip, and online it shows the rejection code so why not put it on the flip? there's plenty of room for a rejection code.

I understand why they won't grade them. Too many people would see an undersize card and instantly think trimmed. So it's not worth putting it out there with a grade. But Something like A (MS) for a factory cut but undersize card shouldn't be all that hard.

Going just by looks, many of the A cards look great. And if that's what someone collects that's not so bad. I have a couple that I won't bother to upgrade that were rejected as miscut or too small. And another that's trimmed that's a really great looking card. It's hard to justify buying a less attractive card that's even VG.

I agree with Steve, when you look at Goodwin's auction, there is a large group of Kottons- the cobb blank back is a monster graded A because it would have been cut as a test card?- the others graded A- non blank backs appear to have different cuts on the card, this appears these were cut this way- there is a group of monsters cards in the group- someone will be happy to own these A or not

[g_vezina_c55]

Like i said in the past i prefer a creased graded 1 card over a altered card ...

Same for Car collecting.. i prefer a survivor car with some paint defect, scratch etc over a full 100% restored trailer queen car....

Same things in comic book collecting.... In comic book when a book is altered or restored the color of the label change blue to purple... and the detail of the restoration is on the label and the comic have a numerical restored grade.... and in this case too i prefer a 100% original item with defaut over a restored item.

For me AUTH is under psa 1 or sgc 10.
My humble opinion.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Depends on the card. My pride and joy (pictured below - because I show it off whenever I get a chance) was graded authentic because it was a handcut stripcard and doesn't have enough of the borders.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by g_vezina_c55

Like i said in the past i prefer a creased graded 1 card over a altered card ...

Same for Car collecting.. i prefer a survivor car with some paint defect, scratch etc over a full 100% restored trailer queen car....

Same things in comic book collecting.... In comic book when a book is altered or restored the color of the label change blue to purple... and the detail of the restoration is on the label and the comic have a numerical restored grade.... and in this case too i prefer a 100% original item with defaut over a restored item.

For me AUTH is under psa 1 or sgc 10.
My humble opinion.

I get ya Nelson... However, I'm Certain that "The Gretzky Wagner" iS Probably the ExceptionN to Your "Authentic" Rule...

[SetBuilder]

In the current Goodwin auction there is a T206 card labeled Authentic that looks VG-EX or better. Excellent visual appeal. I also saw an example above of a Lajoie portrait that looks EX+.

So what is the lesser evil, a little trim job or recoloring, or a beater with a crease running down the middle, or rounded corners (which I always avoid whenever possible)? In this scenario, it doesn't make any sense if you weigh the pro's and con's of the card objectively, that the beater carries a higher demand over a barely noticable altered card.

Just doesn't make any sense to a cardboard collector to pick the beater.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

In the current Goodwin auction there is a T206 card labeled Authentic that looks VG-EX or better. Excellent visual appeal. I also saw an example above of a Lajoie portrait that looks EX+.

So what is the lesser evil, a little trim job or recoloring, or a beater with a crease running down the middle, or rounded corners (which I always avoid whenever possible)? In this scenario, it doesn't make any sense if you weigh the pro's and con's of the card objectively, that the beater carries a higher demand over a barely noticable altered card.

Just doesn't make any sense to a cardboard collector to pick the beater.

Personally I would take the authentic card, most of the time if it looked better. But then again I am building a set for fun, not for financial gain.

[ullmandds]

beauty is in the eye of the beholder...personally...I can't stand altered cards and don't want them in my collection!

[christopher.herman]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I can't stand altered cards and don't want them in my collection!

I agree. I'll take a beater PSA 1/SGC 10 over a "sharp" altered card every day of the week.

[ullmandds]

we seem to be in the minority!!!!! Don't get me wrong...I realise some cards only come in A grades...and that is fine...but as Chris stated I'd much rather have a decent p-f-g card as compared to a minty looking trimmed one!!!!

[GasHouseGang]

I couldn't pass up this Authentic card. It's one I always liked and I couldn't afford one that was equivalent from an eye appeal viewpoint.

[Ease]

David, that is a sharp Anson, a real beauty, altered or not. I seek out slabbed altered cards, no better way to get a gem at a lower price point.

[HRBAKER]

There is no right or wrong answer here. Arguments for both. Both have value and a market for resale. It's the altered cards with the 6, 7 and 8's on them that I worry about.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

In the current Goodwin auction there is a T206 card labeled Authentic that looks VG-EX or better. Excellent visual appeal. I also saw an example above of a Lajoie portrait that looks EX+.

So what is the lesser evil, a little trim job or recoloring, or a beater with a crease running down the middle, or rounded corners (which I always avoid whenever possible)? In this scenario, it doesn't make any sense if you weigh the pro's and con's of the card objectively, that the beater carries a higher demand over a barely noticable altered card.

Just doesn't make any sense to a cardboard collector to pick the beater.

This is one of those situations where it's a matter of preference. I have nothing against the way anyone collects- we have collectors who only want beaters/poors all the way up to collectors who only want as close to mint as possible- and everything in between.

I personally avoid anything with an "A" only because I like mine looking their age, as well as presentable. I don't mind a little rounding on the corners, or a surface wrinkle that doesn't really show too much. But I don't want a card that's been trimmed to look brand new, that's just me. I don't want a card that someone touched up the color on, for any reason.

I've had to pass on a couple of killer combinations because they were trimmed. I hated to pass but trimming bugs me about as much as paper loss on the back (or front) of a card. Here's a couple of PSA 1 poors that I picked up recently:

Not bad for "1's"

Sincerely, Clayton

[deadballfreaK]

Yep. Two trains of thought. Personally I'll take a nice crease free, obviously trimmed card any day over a beater. Once bought a huge lot of E90-1s. Someone didn't like the big borders. Beautiful cards, but way short. I just enjoy 'em. Don't care about grading or profit.