NY Times-Fraud in the online art market and it mirrors our problems in autogs.

[RichardSimon]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/03/ar...pagewanted=all

[drc]

I wrote a beginner's guide to prints by the masters-- ala rembrandt to chagall. Gives the basics to intelligent buying. The usual basics of 'do your homework' and 'buy from good sellers' applies to this area of collecting as all areas of collecting . . . One positive thing for potential collectors is famous artists' prints are well researched and documented by art history professors, curators, etc and a potential buyer can look up to see if a particular print matches up with known originals (size, type of printing, papermark, numbering, etc)-- including whether or not it should have the artist's signature. At the very least, this allows the beginner to double check a seller's claims about a print.

Also, as I say, being a forgery doesn't mean it's a good forgery. Most buyers of these fakes have little knowledge or experience in the area, and just believe whatever the seller tells them. And the scammers in most any area make their money selling to the ignorant and gullible.

prints' guide

[travrosty]

I help people find autographs on their want list for boxing, and also give a free opinion when they email me asking if an autograph is good or not because they are considering buying it.

Some people are only looking for "deals" or inexpensive autographs, even of the old, vintage champions, and I usually tell them there are no "deals" regarding those names on the want list.

But some persist and only will buy a good "deal" or only show me autographs that they are considering buying that are cheap. and almost all instances the autographs are no good, but they still swim in that pond because they think good deals exist.

I tell them that collectors and dealers are constantly, searching auction houses big and small, and constantly searching ebay, so a true deal is very very rare. They think they are capable of sniffing out the great deals. Muhammad Ali for cheap, and Joe Louis and John L. Sullivan for cheaper.

It's a disaster waiting to happen, but sometimes there just is no educating some of the buyers.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by travrosty

...

and also give a free opinion when they email me asking if an autograph is good or not because they are considering buying it.

Yep, they wouldn't ask you if they didn't respect your opinion - might as well share it and help out fellow hobbyists.

Oddly, I get sporadic contacts with similar questions, and always respond to the best of my ability. Giving my opinion doesn't seem out of the ordinary and can only result in future business in other areas. Not sure why dealers here have such a hard time sharing useful, non-confrontational autograph thoughts, but I think it's bad for their business.

[alexautographs]

There's an ass for every seat:

http://www.myccsa.com/lot/236/pablo-...0-artwork.aspx

[travrosty]

I help people find autographs on their want list for boxing, and also give a free opinion when they email me asking if an autograph is good or not because they are considering buying it.

Some people are only looking for "great deals" or very inexpensive autographs, even of the old, vintage champions, and I usually tell them there are no "deals" regarding those names on the want list.

But some persist and only will buy a good "deal" or only show me autographs that they are considering buying that are cheap. and almost all instances the autographs are no good, but they still swim in that pond because they think good deals exist.

I tell them that collectors and dealers are constantly, searching auction houses big and small, and constantly searching ebay, so a true deal is very very rare. They think they are capable of sniffing out the great deals. Muhammad Ali for cheap, and Joe Louis and John L. Sullivan for cheaper.

It's a disaster waiting to happen, but sometimes there just is no educating some of the buyers.

If someone asks you if there is an "affordable" babe ruth or an "affordable" anything of a vintage hof'ers, that is code word for they don't want to pay a lot of money but still want a real autograph? It doesn't exist. Maybe they just want to pay a little and get something they know might not be real but has the backing of people in the industry.

The so called "it doesnt have to be real, just authentic."

Then you have the other buyers that only want a psa or jsa cert. they don't care if it is a real autograph. if it passes psa and jsa, it is considered real, according to them. They get the psa or jsa cert, which is a license to buy and sell, evidently, and they are happy, even if i point out it is not a real signature. they always point out that psa said it is, so there, or jsa said it is, so there! they know the truth, but they don't want to rip up the autograph, they want to still sell it, so they play the game, instead of acting out of integrity.

[isaac2004]

Originally Posted by travrosty

I help people find autographs on their want list for boxing, and also give a free opinion when they email me asking if an autograph is good or not because they are considering buying it.

Some people are only looking for "great deals" or very inexpensive autographs, even of the old, vintage champions, and I usually tell them there are no "deals" regarding those names on the want list.

But some persist and only will buy a good "deal" or only show me autographs that they are considering buying that are cheap. and almost all instances the autographs are no good, but they still swim in that pond because they think good deals exist.

I tell them that collectors and dealers are constantly, searching auction houses big and small, and constantly searching ebay, so a true deal is very very rare. They think they are capable of sniffing out the great deals. Muhammad Ali for cheap, and Joe Louis and John L. Sullivan for cheaper.

It's a disaster waiting to happen, but sometimes there just is no educating some of the buyers.

If someone asks you if there is an "affordable" babe ruth or an "affordable" anything of a vintage hof'ers, that is code word for they don't want to pay a lot of money but still want a real autograph? It doesn't exist. Maybe they just want to pay a little and get something they know might not be real but has the backing of people in the industry.

The so called "it doesnt have to be real, just authentic."

Then you have the other buyers that only want a psa or jsa cert. they don't care if it is a real autograph. if it passes psa and jsa, it is considered real, according to them. They get the psa or jsa cert, which is a license to buy and sell, evidently, and they are happy, even if i point out it is not a real signature. they always point out that psa said it is, so there, or jsa said it is, so there! they know the truth, but they don't want to rip up the autograph, they want to still sell it, so they play the game, instead of acting out of integrity.

From my experience the only time you get a good piece for an affordable price is if it falls in your lap. I have had luck at swap meets, rummage sales, etc, not the internet because as you mentioned, there are thousands looking for items..

tell these people that want good prices to start driving the streets in their town and get a deal that way