Opinions on a Pie Traynor autograph and much more

[RichardSimon]

This actual signed photo was shown to me today (not a scan, the actual photo) and I was asked to give my opinion on its authenticity.
What do you guys think?

[perezfan]

It looks pretty good to me, but would really help to see this one in person.

The condition is awfully perfect for a vintage piece.... almost looks pre-printed or like something that's manufactured. Perhaps it's just the scan. The letter formation and overall style are pretty convincing.

[jbsports33]

Most of the autographs I have seen do not have his first name included “Harold” and this would be a very high end auto. Have you had anyone look at this before?

Jimmy

[mschwade]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

This actual signed photo was shown to me today (not a scan, the actual photo) and I was asked to give my opinion on its authenticity.
What do you guys think?

Honestly, the only thing throwing me off is the T in Traynor. I haven't studied his first name that much, but the Pie looks good and the end r in Traynor looks typical, FWIW. The T looks a little "deliberate" to me and you don't see many of his T's signed like this, but then again if he's signing his full name he could make the T a little more fancy. His T's were usually bland like so:

[GrayGhost]

My vintage HOF and star ball I had a few months ago. had a Traynor EXACTLY like the index card. That one in the picture looks "too fancy" and I too don't like the T

[Shoeless Moe]

Anyone know the story?

[mschwade]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Anyone know the story?

There's different stories of how it was obtained, but all of them seem to lead back to his childhood.

[RichardSimon]

Ok,,, now for the full story.
The picture was shown to me today by a dealer.
He had bought it with the PSA COA that is illustrated here, cert #K77090.
The dealer sold it to a collector.
The collector who bought it sent it to JSA who turned it down.
I was asked for my opinion by the dealer who sold it.
This is a forgery, done many years ago by the infamous Ron Dross.
Dross was the first real forger in the baseball hobby.
The infamous B&W HOF plak scam (he got away with about $100K) was his doing but most people who are aware of that scam do not know that he also forged and sold a number of 8x10 B&W photos along with the plaks.
I saw most of the plaks and a few of the photos when they first hit the market and a few well known dealers were trying to sell these items.
Karma is a bitch though. Dross is no longer with us and passed away at a young age.

[GrayGhost]

Wow. Another strike against the Alpha Bits pros

[mschwade]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Karma is a bitch though. Dross is no longer with us and passed away at a young age.

Did Dross forge any other players and when did he really start putting forgeries out on the market?

[mschwade]

Originally Posted by mschwade

Did Dross forge any other players and when did he really start putting forgeries out on the market?

I read somewhere that Dross did a lot of Mantle's also.. Do you think those ones you originally passed and have since changed your mind about on eBay are works of Dross?

[earlywynnfan]

OK, what am I missing? This guy is talented enough to do the "Pie" part and the "raynor" part nearly perfectly. Yet, instead of getting it right on the only part I could actually forge, a generic capital T, he makes it distinguishable to anyone who knows Traynor's sig??

Is this ignorance or arrogance?

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[mr2686]

Traynor had more than one type of T. The T in the forgery was like he signed his name early on until, I think, the 40's.