Soaking E Series

[Edwolf1963]

Good morning all, just curious - anyone ever soak any of the E Series, specifically E93's or E95's..? I have a couple with dirt/mild stains that I thought about soaking, but wasn't sure if it will remove ink, ruin, disintegrate, etc. Paper stock seems thick enough, but didn't have one I wanted to "test" with.

As always, appreciate your feedback.

Thanks,

Ed

[FrankWakefield]

They soak wonderfully well.


I'm adding, a few hours later, that I'm referring to the E93s and E95s that you asked about in your original post. Not talking about all of the cards that Mr. Burdick put under the E classification.

[Ohio_Collectibles]

OK, forgive my ignorance here but isn't soaking a bad thing? I assume that soaking is to removed dirt & stains, but by doing that, isn't it altering the card. How is it any different than say, using a power eraser to clean white bordered cards. After soaking, wouldn't you have to Iron or Press them to get the water out? That would possibly remove any creases and also press the card outward and make it slightly oversized. What's to stop you from trimming it at that point.

Ed, I understand that these are cards for your personal collection most likely, But what happens when you pass away and someone else gets the cards. How will they know the cards have been soaked?

Just curious, I've seen many people get jumped here when discussing "altering" cards. So what's the difference in this case?\

~OC

[marcdelpercio]

Personally, I don't feel that soaking in water is an "alteration" because nothing unnatural or unoriginal is being added to the card or removed from the card in any way. Only superficial dirt and stains are lifted away from the card and there are no chemical or physical alterations to the card stock. "Power erasing" may be slightly different as this may remove a light layer of the card fibers along with the pencil/ink mark so, in a sense, this does alter the original composition of the card. I think everybody would agree that the other things you mentioned (pressing to widen borders, trimming, etc) are alterations for that exact reason.

There will probably never be universal acceptance of soaking as there are some who feel that absolutely anything that changes any aspect of a card as it is originally found is an alteration. In my opinion, if one subscribes to that viewpoint, they must view the card as already having been altered when the dirt/pencil/whatever was added and, in fact, any card that is not gem mint directly off the press would in some way be altered.

To answer the original question, by the way, E93s and E95s both soak very nicely

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by marcdelpercio

Personally, I don't feel that soaking in water is an "alteration" because nothing unnatural or unoriginal is being added to the card or removed from the card in any way. Only superficial dirt and stains are lifted away from the card and there are no chemical or physical alterations to the card stock. "Power erasing" may be slightly different as this may remove a light layer of the card fibers along with the pencil/ink mark so, in a sense, this does alter the original composition of the card. I think everybody would agree that the other things you mentioned (pressing to widen borders, trimming, etc) are alterations for that exact reason.

There will probably never be universal acceptance of soaking as there are some who feel that absolutely anything that changes any aspect of a card as it is originally found is an alteration. In my opinion, if one subscribes to that viewpoint, they must view the card as already having been altered when the dirt/pencil/whatever was added and, in fact, any card that is not gem mint directly off the press would in some way be altered.

To answer the original question, by the way, E93s and E95s both soak very nicely

I'm a photo collector and don't profess to have any knowledge regarding to cards, but... according to Marc's belief, wouldn't taking a spoon to a card's corners be perfectly fine?

Quoting Marc's POV regarding soaking...

"Personally, I don't feel that soaking in water is an "alteration" because nothing unnatural or unoriginal is being added to the card or removed from the card in any way. "

[marcdelpercio]

Jimmy,
I would consider spooning out a crease to be physically altering the card itself, though I wouldn't put it on the same level as trimming, rebuilding or recoloring where something is actually added to or removed from the card. In other words, I'd say it is a "minor" alteration.

Soaking in water does not physically change or manipulate the card but instead only removes foreign substances that were never a part of the card so I don't see this as an alteration to the card at all. I hope that clarifies what I was trying to say.

[Edwolf1963]

Originally Posted by Ohio_Collectibles

OK, forgive my ignorance here but isn't soaking a bad thing? I assume that soaking is to removed dirt & stains, but by doing that, isn't it altering the card. How is it any different than say, using a power eraser to clean white bordered cards. After soaking, wouldn't you have to Iron or Press them to get the water out? That would possibly remove any creases and also press the card outward and make it slightly oversized. What's to stop you from trimming it at that point.

Ed, I understand that these are cards for your personal collection most likely, But what happens when you pass away and someone else gets the cards. How will they know the cards have been soaked?

Just curious, I've seen many people get jumped here when discussing "altering" cards. So what's the difference in this case?\

~OC

OC, I understand your point, but I personally disagree in that a card stained, written upon, handled by greasy fingers, gets dirty over time, etc can also be construed in one form or another as altering (negatively), so isn't the idea of soaking more to clean/correct/reverse this? You might otherwise clean other collectibles in order to maintain and improve their quality and appearance, I don't see much difference here.

I don't know about ironing and other avenues to remove wrinkles, I don't think to or take it to that level. Soaking to clean - you don't have to do any of that to get the water out other than press between a couple hard cover books in a clean dry cloth and let dry. And trimming (in my book) is something altogether different. I know that many collectors/sellers soak their cards and I'm totally fine buying or trading for them.

I just don't see it as altering in a deceptive/artificial way.

I know this galvanizes strong opinion on both sides and I respect differing view points. Thank you (and Frank) for your feedback, I truly appreciate the thoughts and opinions from the Board.

Ed

[Ohio_Collectibles]

Honestly, I have no opinion one way or the other. I was just curious on the subject. If a card has been soaked is it detectible to grading companies? I've heard of a guy in New York I think that can "clean" cards. He can remove paint, ink, tape residue, and other stains from a card and it is supposedly undetectible to graders. Yet he was practically crucified on several sports card message boards when he offered his services.

I am wondering how that would be any different than soaking.

~OC

[Edwolf1963]

Originally Posted by Ohio_Collectibles

Honestly, I have no opinion one way or the other. I was just curious on the subject. If a card has been soaked is it detectible to grading companies? I've heard of a guy in New York I think that can "clean" cards. He can remove paint, ink, tape residue, and other stains from a card and it is supposedly undetectible to graders. Yet he was practically crucified on several sports card message boards when he offered his services.

I am wondering how that would be any different than soaking.

~OC

Nothing I've soaked has ever come back "altered". I would suspect bcse there's nothing artificial as far as chemicals left behind or layers stripped? I've never taken it past this to other avenues/levels though .. or on other cards besides T206.

Marco (and Frank again) - thank you for your feedback on the E93/E95 - good to know! Much appreciate!

Ed