SGC no cert. lookup

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am told the rationale is to protect submitters (if someone sells one card from an invoice, people can't look up the others) but this does not seem very compelling to me. You can essentially do the same with PSA's cert lookup using sequential serial numbers and no harm seems to have been done. Does anyone know when the feature was removed from the website?

[botn]

Think it was something that Dave Forman decided to do back in early 07 at the time they made changes to the site. I thought Dave himself or someone from SGC made a post about the changes. I will see if I can find it.

[srs1a]

I don't believe that you were ever able to do a cert verification on SGC's website. There is a back-door path, though. Simply make a "The Way I Collect" set and add the cert #'s to the set -- it will tell you the cards and their grades.

[Al C.risafulli]

no harm seems to have been done

That's a joke, right?

For the record, Greg, my company redesigned SGC's website in mid 2005, and again in early 2008. When we redesigned it in 2005, there was no cert number lookup feature, and I was told there never had been one.

I think the cert number lookup feature is one of the serious problems in this hobby.

-Al

[Peter_Spaeth]

Al, please elaborate. It certainly wasn't on my radar screen as a problem, quite to the contrary, I am troubled by lack of transparency (in many respects not just cert. lookup) because among other things it faciliates card doctors. We don't know who submitted the cards we buy in most cases, and we don't know who consigned them. I for one like to know if a whole bunch of surrounding certs were rejected.

[Al C.risafulli]

Peter, my feeling is and always has been that the cert number lookup has the potential to do far more damage than good.

The initial purpose of the cert number lookup feature was to check and see if a cert number was authentic, and matched the card and grade you were looking at, as an added measure of security for a buyer. Many people, however, used it as a way of scrutinizing invoices and "outing" card doctors or "bad" submissions, particularly on message boards. That's not what the feature was designed for, and using it that way tells you absolutely nothing.

Clearly there have been examples where you look at the 10 cert numbers above and below a card, and they're all rejected for trimming, and you just know the card you're looking at is trimmed as well (and you're left wondering how the hell that one card wasn't rejected outright).

More often, though, I've seen that cert number lookup feature used - on message boards - to question the reputation of a seller. You know, "Look at this card he's selling, and tell me why four of the cards surrounding it were rejected for trimming."

Never mind that there's no way of knowing if the seller and submitter are one in the same, or if the submitter purchased the cards raw from a card doctor (or some other source for trimmed/undersized cards, like the unopened vending box I bought once that had half a dozen cards rejected for trimming on the same invoice, then accepted and graded on a subsequent submission).

I've also seen people call out individual cards on message boards for the simple "crime" of having a single prewar card surrounded by modern cards on the same invoice. As ridiculous as that sounds.

The idea that I could buy a lot of raw cards, submit them to PSA and have a bunch of them rejected for trimming, and subsequently be outed as a card doctor on a message board because someone scrutinized my invoice always bugged the hell out of me.

So when you state that no harm has been done, I disagree. I think the cert number lookup feature created a whole bunch of armchair detectives, looking to scrutinize every invoice from certain sellers.

Furthermore, what happens if I purchase, say, a T206 Wagner and cross it to PSA, along with a bunch of other cards? If I were to sell a card from that invoice, a cert number lookup feature would enable someone to draw the reasonable conclusion that I own a T206 Wagner - something I may prefer to keep under wraps.

I am sure that both PSA and SGC would, with a phone call, tell you if the cert number in question was authentic. So you still have the ability to obtain the information that the lookup feature was intended to give you. What you DON'T have any longer is the ability to scrutinize entire invoices - and I'm pretty pleased with that added measure of privacy.

-Al