Drum or Uzit?

[Chicago206]

There has been some recent debate/discussion lately on which of these 2 backs is tougher to aquire. Many members here have taken the position that Uzits are now tougher than Drums due to the recent Drum finds. In fact, in an attempt to "reorganize" a backs scarcity list, fellow member CFC actually ranked the Uzit ahead of the Drum.

Now, this is just but a solitary snapshot in time, and may not even mean anything, but with the 2 major auctions in progress (REA and Heritage), I count a total of 12 Uzits for sale (1 of those in a collection of backs), and just 2 Drums in both auctions combined.

Again, this is simply a snapshot in time, and is not meant to be indicative of the market availability as a whole on these 2 great cards. Just thought it was an interesting observation in light of the recent discussions of which is the tougher back.

[cfc1909]

for as long as I can remember it has been know in the hobby that Drum is toughter than Uzit. With several recent finds of Drum totaling 70 you can make a good case for the oppisite.

No matter you will probably not be able to convince a hobby vet the Uzit is tougher.

As for what is avalible now, that will change from auction to auction.

[philliesphan]

there are only three possible Uzits, whereas there are six theoretical Drums of Phillies players.

That said, I've been able to acquire three of the [potential] six Drum Phillies, while I've only been able to acquire one Uzit, with that acquisition having been made approximately ten years ago.

Marc

[Chicago206]

Like I said, I do understand it will change from auction to auction, but its the "lopsidedness" of the current auctions thats such a curiosity. For example, if someone told me there would be 6 times as many Drums available as Uzits at the upcoming national, I would say they were nuts to think that. Perhaps this is simply an anomoly, or perhaps Uzits ARE actually a bit easier to find than Drums. But the example in my opening thread is precisely how one goes about making a "scarcity list". He simply looks at available cards for sale in the marketplace over a period of time. The "period of time" part being the variable. If the next 4 or 5 major auctions also show that more Uzits are being made available than Drums, then its time to redo the list, correct?

[scottglevy]

I really am not sure which back is tougher - Drum is tougher based solely on my personal collecting experience. Over the decades my dad and I have owned several thousand T206s and have seen tens of thousands. And if you made me choose one answer, I'd say that Drum is tougher.

I have purchased lots of cards in the past that have had one or more Uzit cards in them, but I've had to specifically seek out a Drum anytime I wanted to own one.

In the same breath, Drums seem to come in mega-finds of 40 or more cards in one shot. I can think of at least two very recent events like this -- I can also think of one event albeit awhile back like that for Uzit.

I don't think that you can draw an accurate conclusion of a back's rarity based simply on the total number being offered in a small string of auctions. If that was true than Carolina Brights would be about as rare as Uzit because not many have been auctioned recently (we clearly know that this is not the case). To use a fancy term, it is not a statistically significant sample size.

It is additionally difficult to assess rarity based on recent sales because rare backs tend to be hoarded. I know of at least 4 advanced collectors that have many copies of every rare back (except for BL460 and Cobb). Some of these collections would make your head spin if you ever saw them in person.

[Chicago206]

"To use a fancy term, it is not a statistically significant sample size."


I agree 110% with this statement.

[tedzan]

The recent two DRUM finds bring the total to 132 confirmed T206's with DRUM backs....and in my book, relegate this back
to a less scarce status relative to the UZIT backs.

There are only 50 - T206's that have been confirmed with UZIT backs. This factor, alone, suggests that indeed the UZIT's
must be tougher. But, of course we have no knowledge of the actual quantity of how many of these UZIT's were printed.
And, although, there are considerably less UZIT-backed T206's, they may have been printed in greater numbers than DRUM's.

I really doubt this, as we know that the UZIT T206's were printed at the tail-end of the T206 production line (Spring 1911).
While the 132 (or so) DRUM T206's were printed in the timeframe of the Fall/Winter of 1910 (when T206 production was still
going strong).

Furthermore, consider the following UZIT "No-Print" subjects......

(a)....The 6 super-prints (Chance, two Chase's, Red Cobb, Evers, Matty)

(b)....Johnson (pitching)

(c)....CYoung (glove)

(d)....No Minor Leaguers


Conversely, the following major stars were printed with DRUM backs......

Baker
Bender (no trees)
Cobb (red portrait)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Evers (yellow sky)
Jennings (both hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Speaker

and 25+ Minor Leaguers

Someone has to hit me with some convincing facts to change my mind.....UZIT's are indeed tougher than DRUM's.


TED Z

[ethicsprof]

Chicago, as you say, you are offering a snapshot in time that is an interesting observation but the data now speaks for the primacy of uzit over
drum on Jim R's most helpful new list methinks.

best,
barry

[cfc1909]

When I posted the scarcity list -it was truly my expierence collecting this set.
Over the years I only remember one other auction that had 12 plus Uzits in it.

I suggest you keep notes for at least a five year period-10 would be better and you will have a good idea of how tough the back ads are. The members can tell you their expierence but for sure yours will be different. To see 12 Uzits offered in your first few months of collecting is not normal.

We have a great advantage-the internet-the old timers probably took years to see 12 Uzits.

I know a collector that had all the set minus Doyle and Wagner. Most of the backs-he setteled for a Drum with the corner missing because they just were not avalible at the time he collected.

[Chicago206]

"To see 12 Uzits offered in your first few months of collecting is not normal."


I believe you. It shocked me to see 12 available at 1 time! I do not have extensive experience with any T206's since I have been collecting since just this past January. I have limited info to go on. I do know that at the Chicago SunTimes show (fairly large event), there were exactly 2 Drums and a single Uzit. And of those 3 total cards, just a single Drum was actually available for sale (other Drum and the Uzit were in an auction). Its just hard to grasp how in these 2 current auctions, Uzits outgun the Drums by such a huge margin!

[ChiefBenderForever]

The market for tough backs is hot, money is tight, people are broke. If someone has been holding onto those Uzits for years now is the time to cash in.

[ullmandds]

rare backs are definitely hot...I've been casually seeking out t206's w/rare backs for almost 20 years...and in my casual experience...I'd say they're both really tough!!! Until recently...I have seen more drums for sale in my life than uzits. There is no absolute answer...they're both very tough!