When is a T206 OLD MILL tougher than a red HINDU ? Let's see some tough OLD MILL's

[tedzan]

This title may sound contrary to the known ranking of T206 scarcity; however, there are certain T206 subjects in specific series (and/or groups) that do contradict
the established "pecking order" of T206 backs.
For example, consider the Exclusive 12 subjects (460-only series).....http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=163949.....in which their red HINDU cards
are more available than their OLD MILL cards. Trust me....the OLD MILL cards of these 12 guys are considerably tougher to find.

Furthermore, you've probably noticed that the OLD MILL cards in my Exclusive 12 runs are not too pretty. And that is because I'll settle for any condition OLD MILL
of these 12 subjects. Anyhow, here's my Crandall run. Need EPDG, TOLSTOI & UZIT to complete this run. Any help is greatly appreciated in finding these cards......


..





Factory #42






Factory #30 .................... Factory #42



Hey you "gung ho" T206 dudes....let's see some tough OLD MILL cards (from the 150/350 or 350-only or 350/460 or 460-only series).


TED Z
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[Sean]

Hey Ted. To your point, I would like to show you my Merkle portrait/ Old Mill, but I've never been able to find one.

[mrvster]

I have a few om 150/350's toughies....i'll look for scans, but having tech difficulties

[Mountaineer1999]

https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...n/30619/lumley

[sreader3]

Hi Ted,

I don't have any of those pesky 460-only "Exclusive 12" Old Mills. I do have Mr. Kling, a tough 150/350 Old Mill I acquired back in the Dark Ages (2004) who seems to have a Net54 following these days.

Scot

T206 Kling Front.jpg

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Sean

Hey Ted. To your point, I would like to show you my Merkle portrait/ Old Mill, but I've never been able to find one.

Hey Sean

So, what you are saying is that an OLD MILL / Merkle is even scarcer than the UZIT / Merkle ?

Very, very interesting....that really defies the "pecking order" of the T206 back scarcity.



.


TED Z
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[Sean]

Ted, I've seen three or four Uzits. I haven't seen a portrait/ Old Mill in the four years that I've been searching.

[Epps]

Old Mill Gandil.jpg

Old Mill Gandil Back.jpg

[Sean]

Hey Ted, PSA lists zero Merkle portrait Old Mills. SGC lists 10 throwing and 6 unidentified Merkles, but zero confirmed Old Mill portraits.

T206resource.com says that it's confirmed, but I've never found one. Is anyone sure that it exists?

[RCMcKenzie]

I feel like Ted and Gabrinus are the only people on here that are not afraid that I'm about to rip them off for $50. I'm a real estate guy, I don't really know cards. I've posted since the first full count board. I try to keep a low profile. It's just a hobby. I have some cool cards for this thread...T206 OM is rare...and cheap....I have a few OM...I'm having some health issues like i assume most of you are, but I'm not dead.

[RCMcKenzie]

He was oKay, I guess. I sent him $38 dollars and the card arrived. Otherwise, kind of a jackweed. Whatever.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Sean

Hey Ted, PSA lists zero Merkle portrait Old Mills. SGC lists 10 throwing and 6 unidentified Merkles, but zero confirmed Old Mill portraits.

T206resource.com says that it's confirmed, but I've never found one. Is anyone sure that it exists?

Sean

My OLD MILL list (started in 2006) has never shown Merkle (portrait) as confirmed......
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=125226&page=5

I'm skeptical of any other lists that claim Merkle (portrait) exists. Let's see if someone on this forum posts a scan of this card ?


TED Z
.

[Jantz]

Hi Ted

Not sure how rare Lobert with an Old Mill back is, but I haven't seen many. I picked up this memento while on my Cooperstown visit from our friend Don F.

Jantz

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Sean

My OLD MILL list (started in 2006) has never shown Merkle (portrait) as confirmed......
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=125226&page=5

I'm skeptical of any other lists that claim Merkle (portrait) exists. Let's see if someone on this forum posts a scan of this card ?


TED Z
.

Ted, in your most recently updated list you have Merkle (Portrait) listed as
confirmed.


#44 Report Post Old 10-16-2014, 07:54 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,986

Default FYI....T206 OLD MILL (Black & Brown) confirmed lists

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks Donnie......Cicotte has been added to the list.



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To date....309 black OLD MILL Major League subjects have been confirmed.
They are listed here as a function of their respective T206 series.


150/350 Series..................123 subjects

Abbaticchio (brown sleeves)
Alperman
Ames (portrait)
Ball (New York)
Bates
Beaumont
Bell (hands over head)
Bender (portrait)
Bergen (bat)
Bowerman
Bradley (portrait)
Bransfield
Bridwell (portrait-no cap)
Bresnahan (portrait)
M. Brown (portrait)
Camnitz (arms folded)
Chance (red portrait)
Chase (pink portrait)
Chase (white cap)
Chesbro

Cicotte
Clarke (portrait)
JJ Clarke
Cobb (green)
Cobb (bat on shoulder)
Conroy (fielding)
Coveleski
Crandall (no cap)
Crawford (throwing)
Criss
George Davis (Chicago)
Harry Davis (A's)
Delehanty (Washington)
Donlin (seated)
Donovan (portrait)
Doolin
Dougherty (portrait)
Durham
Evers (portrait)
Ferris

Flick
Ganley
Gibson
Gilbert
Goode
Griffith (portrait)
Hahn
Hemphill
Herzog (New York)
Hinchman (Cleveland)
Isbell
Jacklitsch
Jennings (portrait)
Johnson (portrait)
F. Jones (portrait)
F. Jones (hands at hips)
Jordan (portrait)
Joss (portrait)
Keeler (portrait)
Keeler (bat)

Killian (pitching)
Kleinow (bat)
Kling
Konetchy (glove high)
Lajoie (portrait)
Lajoie (throwing)
Lake (New York)
Leach (portrait)
Leifield (pitching)
Liebhardt
Lobert
Lumley
Magee (portrait)
Manning (bat)
Marquard (hands at side)
Mathewson (portrait)
Mathewson (white cap)
McGraw (portrait-no cap)
McGraw (pointing)
McIntyre (Brooklyn)

McQuillan (ball in hand)
Merkle (portrait)
Murphy (throwing)
Nicholls (hands on knees)
Niles
Oldring (fielding)
O'Leary (portrait)
Overall (portrait)
Owen
Parent
Pastorius
Powell
Ritchey
Rucker (portrait)
Schlei (catching)
Schmidt (throwing)
Sheckard (no glove)
Shipke
F. Smith (Chicago)
Spade

Stahl (no glove)
Steinfeldt (portrait)
Stone
Stovall (portrait)
Sullivan
L Tannehill (Chicago)
Tenney
Tinker (portrait)
Tinker (hands on knees)
Turner
Waddell (portrait)
Waddell (throwing)
Wagner (bat on left)
Wallace
Walsh
Weimer
Doc White (portrait)
Wilhelm (hands at chest)
Williams
Willis (portrait)

Wiltse (portrait-no cap)
CYoung (portrait)
CYoung (bare hand)

[tedzan]

Pat R

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. However, I don't know why Merkle is on that 150/350 series list.

When I re-arranged my OLD MILL list (4-14-2014) in order to break it down with respect to series, Merkle was not on this list.

I have to search into my records to find out why Merkle is included on this list, because I'm fairly certain he has not been confirmed.
But, I may be proven wrong.


TED Z
.

[njdunkin1]

PSA pop report shows three Merkle Old Mill portraits...a flat 5, a 3.5, and a 3 w/ qualifier:

[njdunkin1]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Hi Ted,

I don't have any of those pesky 460-only "Exclusive 12" Old Mills. I do have Mr. Kling, a tough 150/350 Old Mill I acquired back in the Dark Ages (2004) who seems to have a Net54 following these days.

Scot

I can testify. Quite a difficult card


I can't seem to find a Tenney Old Mill anywhere. That's a big toughie that seems to be almost as difficult as the Merkle portrait.

[VoodooChild]

Besides the "Exclusive 12", how do you know what cards from the other series are considered "Tough" Old Mills?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by njdunkin1

I can testify. Quite a difficult card


I can't seem to find a Tenney Old Mill anywhere. That's a big toughie that seems to be almost as difficult as the Merkle portrait.

NJ

I have a Tenney / OLD MILL.

I'm out-n-about right now, when I return home I'll post this card.


TED Z
.

[njdunkin1]

Originally Posted by tedzan

NJ

I have a Tenney / OLD MILL.
.

I knew it existed

A picture would be awesome!

[Jobu]

That is interesting - the pop report by player shows 0 Old Mills.

Originally Posted by njdunkin1

PSA pop report shows three Merkle Old Mill portraits...a flat 5, a 3.5, and a 3 w/ qualifier:

[njdunkin1]

Originally Posted by Jobu

That is interesting - the pop report by player shows 0 Old Mills.

That is odd. Which do you think is correct?

[Luke]

I've seen one Merkle Old Mill portrait. It was raw and would have graded a 1 if anyone ever sent it in. No scan unfortunately but I was the under-bidder and am still sad about it.

[atx840]

Here you go Ted, also owned a Duffy OM that was chopped on the top.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by njdunkin1

I can testify. Quite a difficult card

I can't seem to find a Tenney Old Mill anywhere. That's a big toughie that seems to be almost as difficult as the Merkle portrait.

NJ
Here is the Tenney you're searching for.......

.


TED Z
.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Jobu

That is interesting - the pop report by player shows 0 Old Mills.

This is the list that I was looking at.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Luke

I've seen one Merkle Old Mill portrait. It was raw and would have graded a 1 if anyone ever sent it in. No scan unfortunately but I was the under-bidder and am still sad about it.

Well, I guess this settles it. I'll have to keep looking.

It's funny, I thought the throwing pose was the tough run, not the portrait.

[iwantitiwinit]

You are not kidding about the difficulty of some Old Mill's. When I started my Magee portrait back run I didn't realize there was only one known per the sgc and psa population reports. Was lucky enough to purchase it here's the link, http://goodwinandco.com/1909_11_Old_...-LOT34938.aspx

[tedzan]

Hi Robert

Quite a number of the Portrait cards in the 150/350 series are very tough to find with the OLD MILL backs.

My theory as to why this is so, is based on two factors......
1..American Lithographic printed many of the portraits in the in the early stages of the 150 and 350 series cards (circa 1909 - mid 1910).
2..The OLD MILL backs were printed from mid 1910 to late 1910. So, left over pre-printed sheets comprising of the early 150 series guys
Kling, Lajoie, Magee, Merkle, Tenney, etc., etc. were very few.

The greatest concentration of OLD MILL cards are found in the 350/460 series, since sheets of these subjects were cranked out during the
mid-1910 to late-1910 time frame.

Incidentally Robert....Bill Goodwin showed me your Magee (at the December Philly Show) and asked me if I had seen one before. I'm glad
for you that you won this card.


TED Z
.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

You are not kidding about the difficulty of some Old Mill's. When I started my Magee portrait back run I didn't realize there was only one known per the sgc and psa population reports. Was lucky enough to purchase it here's the link, http://goodwinandco.com/1909_11_Old_...-LOT34938.aspx

Wow, I can't believe that price for an Old Mill.

Now I understand why. If a Merkle ever does show up, I doubt that I can afford it.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Sean

Wow, I can't believe that price for an Old Mill.

Now I understand why. If a Merkle ever does show up, I doubt that I can afford it.

The Magee was a bargain compared to this Cicotte.

http://goodwinandco.com/LotDetail.as...entoryid=28377

[kdixon]

Zach Wheat Old Mill.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Pat R

The Magee was a bargain compared to this Cicotte.

http://goodwinandco.com/LotDetail.as...entoryid=28377

Holy crap. I'm guessing David Hall ended up with that one.

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Robert

Quite a number of the Portrait cards in the 150/350 series are very tough to find with the OLD MILL backs.

My theory as to why this is so, is based on two factors......
1..American Lithographic printed many of the portraits in the in the early stages of the 150 and 350 series cards (circa 1909 - mid 1910).
2..The OLD MILL backs were printed from mid 1910 to late 1910. So, left over pre-printed sheets comprising of the early 150 series guys
Kling, Lajoie, Magee, Merkle, Tenney, etc., etc. were very few.

The greatest concentration of OLD MILL cards are found in the 350/460 series, since sheets of these subjects were cranked out during the
mid-1910 to late-1910 time frame.

Incidentally Robert....Bill Goodwin showed me your Magee (at the December Philly Show) and asked me if I had seen one before. I'm glad
for you that you won this card.


TED Z
.

Thanks Ted.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by atx840

Here you go Ted, also owned a Duffy OM that was chopped on the top.

Hey Chris

Trade you my OLD MILL for your OLD MILL


As previously stated....the OLD MILL cards in my Exclusive 12 runs are not too pretty; whatever, I get them when I see them. They are just too scarce to pass up.


. .









Hey you 'gung ho" T206 dudes....don't stop now, show us some more tough OLD MILL cards (from the 150/350 or 350-only or 350/460 or 460-only series).



TED Z
.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by Pat R

The Magee was a bargain compared to this Cicotte.

http://goodwinandco.com/LotDetail.as...entoryid=28377

Except for the fact, that the price on that listing is not for the card shown.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

Except for the fact, that the price on that listing is not for the card shown.

I'm not sure what you're seeing but that is what the Cicotte sold for.

There was even a thread on here about it after the auction ended.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...hlight=cicotte

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by Pat R

I'm not sure what you're seeing but that is what the Cicotte sold for.

There was even a thread on here about it after the auction ended.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...hlight=cicotte

Hmm. Their historical pricing was always not accurate I thought. Maybe they fixed the issue.

[Pat R]

None of these cards are mine but here are some scans.
Crandall PSA 6 - Copy.jpgCrandall SGC 30 copy.jpg
Devore PSA 1 - Copy.jpgDevore PSA Auth - Copy.jpg
Duffy SGC 10 - Copy.jpgDuffy Sgc 40 - Copy.jpg
Ford SGC 10 - Copy.jpgFord SGC 40 - Copy.jpg
Geyer SGC 10 - Copy.jpgHummel SGC 10 - Copy.jpg
McGraw SGC 10 - Copy.jpgWheat SGC Auth - Copy.jpg
Pfeffer PSA Auth - Copy.jpgPfeffer Sgc 30 - Copy.jpg
Sheckard PSA 1 - Copy.jpgSheckard SGC 20 - Copy.jpg
Tannehill PSA 2 - Copy.jpgTannehill SGC10 - Copy.jpg

[tedzan]

Double post.

[tedzan]

Here are the two favorite OLD MILL's in my collection.

The Hal Chase is my very first T206......which I acquired at the Willow Grove Show in 1981.







Both of these subjects were printed in the 350/460 series; and, OLD MILL's are fairly easy to find.
Also, most of the subjects in the 460-only series (except for the Exclusive 12) are fairly easy to
find with OLD MILL backs.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Jantz

Hi Ted

Not sure how rare Lobert with an Old Mill back is, but I haven't seen many. I picked up this memento while on my Cooperstown visit from our friend Don F.

Jantz

Hi Jantz

I have gleaned from 37 years of T206 collecting experience that "portrait subjects" in the 150/350 series are considerably tougher to
find with OLD MILL backs than in subsequent T206 series. Many of these guys were short-printed with OLD MILL. Lobert, however, is
not as tough to find with an OLD MILL back as are most other "portrait subjects" in the 150/350 series.

Speaking about Don Flewelling,this Summer the National coincides with HOF weekend, so I'll not be setting-up at Don's Cooperstown
Show. Since 1985, I have set-up at the Cooperstown Show. It has always been a great Show (except the weekend that Ripken was
inducted).


TED Z
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[Sean]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Jantz

It has always been a great Show (except the weekend that Ripken was
inducted).


TED Z
.

Why Ted, what happened at that show?

[The Nasty Nati]

I've also noticed that for the 150 only subjects, the Sov. 150 is incredibly tough. In most cases, tougher than the Hindu.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati

I've also noticed that for the 150 only subjects, the Sov. 150 is incredibly tough. In most cases, tougher than the Hindu.

This is certainly very true. When I completed my all-SOVEREIGN set, the last 6 cards I needed were all 150-only series subjects......

Burch (batting)
L. Doyle (throwing)
Donlin (fielding
Evers (blue sky)
Pattee
Reulbach


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Hi Sean.....so, you're asking why the Cooperstown Show was not as good the Summer Ripken was inducted ?

Cooperstown is really a village (pop. only 1800+), and the usual HOF weekend crowd ranges from 15,000 to 30,000 people. Cooperstown (and the surrounding area
can handle that amount of people) and they certainly have since I've first started going up there in 1985.

However, the Summer that Ripken was inducted, 60,000 people were in Cooperstown. It was unreal, Main St. was shut down, the parking situation was horrendous,
and many of the people that came to the Show were just curiosity seekers (who interfered with the real collectors).

Indeed, some of my best Shows over the years there were when 15,000 to 20,000 people were in town. This was also true for the other Dealers at these Shows.


TED Z
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[Sean]

Originally Posted by tedzan

This is certainly very true. When I completed my all-SOVEREIGN set, the last 6 cards I needed were all 150-only series subjects......

Burch (batting)
L. Doyle (throwing)
Donlin (fielding
Evers (blue sky)
Pattee
Reulbach


TED Z
.

Hi Ted. What ever happened to your all-Sovereign set?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Sean

Hi Ted. What ever happened to your all-Sovereign set?

Sean

It is in an album in my bookcase alongside my all-PIEDMONT set, all-SWEET CAPORAL (Factory#30) set and AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 subset. Started
this SOVEREIGN set in Nov 2006, and completed it in Nov 2007. It was truly a "labor of love". When I attained 402 subjects with SOVEREIGN backs,
I was pretty confident that it was completed. The real challenge was to figure out what T206 cards were SOVEREIGN "NO PRINTS". Time has proven
that my research was precise.

Imagine flipping thru mylar pages in an album and seeing a sea of varying shades of GREEN......







Furthermore, I'm still adding SOVEREIGN 350 cards (from the 150/350 series) to the set which will ultimately result in a Master set of approx. 476 cards.

Shown here are the rare SOVEREIGN 460 cards of the six super prints.

.



...............






TED Z
.

[TistaT202]

Here is my Pink Chase OM. I love these threads as I did not understand the difficulty of this card or other OM's.

Mike