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#51
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About soaking cards
Posted By: DJ
I agree that soaking is not an issue as well. |
#52
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About soaking cards
Posted By: howard
"These are treasures and should be kept in an unaltered state" |
#53
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About soaking cards
Posted By: JimCrandell
Howard, |
#54
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Tom Boblitt
dead horse here.....many will continue to soak. I'm guilty too. Freed about 600 cards from a vintage scrapbook -- about 90% non-sports but also some N162's--two of which reside in SGC70 and SGC60 holders. They are no longer in my collection and they were sold as SGC70 and SGC60's. I did tell the person who bought them that they'd been soaked. They did not look soaked but were. The 60+ Old Judges had been skinned, so no back. They were soaked out and sold on ebay as such and brought great prices for what they were. |
#55
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
16 days before I turn 52, and I slept very well last night. Best night's sleep in a couple of weeks. |
#56
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About soaking cards
Posted By: dan mckee
My Mantle received a 2. It has a hefty crease. Back when it was still a hobby, before all of the investors entered, soaking was popular to remove scrapbook paper or straighten a corner or to flatten a warped card. If you will notice, the cards I have soaked over the years are still in my collection. I soak stuff that I keep to enhance the physical appearance as mentioned above. It didn't matter back then as people collected and didn't invest. Yes my cards will be sold one day, I may not be around to see it but I do not consider them doctored by plain water. My entire 1962 and 1971 sets were soaked while in the plastic sheets and binders! We had a basement flood and those 2 sets were at the bottom of the cabinet! NOT FUN! Luckily I had a lot of good friends and family members, about 12 of us stayed up through the night, pulling the cards, patting them dry, and placing them between some type of weight. The 62 set was completely saved, the 71 set lost about 15 cards while pulling them out of the pages, a few of the black borders decided to stay behind with plastic sheet. Good Bye guys and Gals. |
#57
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About soaking cards
Posted By: JimCrandell
Dan, |
#58
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About soaking cards
Posted By: MVSNYC
i woke this morning to read this thread...guys, i am with Jim on this one...i can't believe what i am hearing, i guess i am a purist as well, how could all of you bash Mastro's for "preparring" cards (which i do not endorse)...only to happily explain how you soak cards, clean them up, "prepare" them for grading?...come on, sounds like a double standard here. |
#59
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
I don't recall everyone bashing Mastro's... |
#60
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About soaking cards
Posted By: T206Collector
People have been soaking cards forever. And people have been regularly discussing methods for soaking cards on this board, without much if any backlash, for at least the past 5 years. |
#61
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About soaking cards
Posted By: E, Daniel
DJ, your post is simply meanspirited and unintelligent, so no need to go into any lengths to describe my collecting history. Sort of like who's got the bigger d@#*........., and somehow you don't sound all that endowed - with knowledge. |
#62
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About soaking cards
Posted By: leon
Wow....that took some time to read. One question...let's say you have an antique lamp in your living room. It's worth far more as an anique than a light but you use it anyway, because that's what lights were made for. Would you dust it off? regards |
#63
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About soaking cards
Posted By: E, Daniel
yes leon, with a dry lint free cotton rag (would not remove a spec of patina). kind of like blowing off the dust that had settled on your kalamazoo bats card you left out on the computer desk after basking in its glow all night...... and we all know how a computer sucks dust out of the air to settle all over it and everything around it. |
#64
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About soaking cards
Posted By: leon
It was just a question to establish a boundary. Had you said you had a problem with dusting it off it would have swayed my opinion a little bit. Everyone has a right to their opinion....take care |
#65
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About soaking cards
Posted By: E, Daniel
Ahh, bugger. Leon, to think I was close to swaying your mind is like pomegranite from the garden of eden...or, some such fruit....sooooooo tempting..... |
#66
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About soaking cards
Posted By: MVSNYC
"who was bashing mastro's?" |
#67
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About soaking cards
Posted By: barrysloate
If you found a scrapbook with cards glued in them you might rightly think that the glue would eat into the surface of the card and perhaps slowly destroy it over time. If you brought the scrapbook to a paper conservator, he would recommend carefully removing the cards, cleaning the paste off the back, and probably spraying them with a deacidifying solution to remove the acids. You would actually be doing a good thing because you would be taking active steps to preserve the cards for future generations. So in that scenario aren't you doing a good thing? Removing foreign substances off paper is a positive step, so why do some look at it so negatively? You have not altered anything, you have just removed harmful substances from the surface. |
#68
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About soaking cards
Posted By: E, Daniel
I guess Barry you just simply don't agree with the slippery slope theory. |
#69
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About soaking cards
Posted By: David Vargha
Women have the right to vote? Well, that sure explains a lot. |
#70
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About soaking cards
Posted By: MVSNYC
a paper conservator working on the dead sea scrolls in a museum is one thing, but a collector "soaking" cards and pressing them to dry in the middle of a phone book, sounds a little more then "carefully removing cards, and spraying them with a solution"... |
#71
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About soaking cards
Posted By: barrysloate
Daniel- I think we both agree that altering a card isn't an acceptable practice. But some types of glue have bad chemicals in them that over time will destroy the paper. By removing the glue you are actually doing a good thing, and I don't see where the card is being altered. If you were to ask the conservator to, for example, repair a tear, then I agree that is altering. I think we are just trying to define the term. |
#72
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
I gotta make sure I understand this. |
#73
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About soaking cards
Posted By: T206Collector
Daniel, |
#74
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About soaking cards
Posted By: T206Collector
[my point earlier was that this was the very thing that you guys gave doug allen a hard time about., "preparing" cards...and many of you are doing the same thing...i don't get it.] |
#75
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Tom Boblitt
"a card should be left un-tampered with...left exactly the way it was when you obtained it...i think Daniel hit it on the head, the paper damage on the back of a card, pulled from a scrapbook, is the price you pay for pulling it out...i have been collecting for 15 years and the thought of "touching" a card has never even crossed my mind..." |
#76
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About soaking cards
Posted By: barrysloate
I think if one bought a scrapbook with cards glued in they would want to remove them simply because that is not how people collect. Nobody who collects today glues their T206's into albums- collectors want individual cards, whether they be raw or graded. It's such a basic thing to remove them. And if it isn't done right and there is some paper loss on the back, they all are going to grade poor. If on the other hand they are removed properly without causing damage, what is the harm? I still don't see how they are being altered. |
#77
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About soaking cards
Posted By: JimCrandell
Paul and Barry, |
#78
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About soaking cards
Posted By: jackgoodman
I can't believe we're now arguing about water. |
#79
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
Nuts... |
#80
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Ryan Christoff
No, Jim, you're actually saying it's okay to alter these historical treasures by adding glue to them and pasting them into scrapbooks. It's just not okay to remove these alterations with water. |
#81
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About soaking cards
Posted By: JimCrandell
Ryan, |
#82
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About soaking cards
Posted By: howard
"Under your definition anything is acceptable" |
#83
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About soaking cards
Posted By: steve f
Frank, These are the only folded-up planes you should straighten. |
#84
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
Beautiful Corsair... F4U or FG ??? Looks like that is at Pennsicola NAS?? |
#85
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About soaking cards
Posted By: JimCrandell
Howard, |
#86
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Ryan Christoff
Jim, |
#87
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About soaking cards
Posted By: E, Daniel
You know what's funny? |
#88
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About soaking cards
Posted By: David Vargha
Any chance you have increased it's natural and intended levels for optimal survival, and that even small increases of heat or humidity could now create conditions likely for the paper to start to mould and break down.....? |
#89
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About soaking cards
Posted By: howard
Papers worst enemy is fire. |
#90
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
My little cards have always hated being sealed up and slabbed... |
#91
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About soaking cards
Posted By: E, Daniel
David, and I respect your knowledge if you are representing yourself as somewhat expert in this area, do you understand the amount of water remaining in the card after being pressed between some version of blotting paper and some books as not being significantly greater than paper/card that has been manufactured for long term substrate use for lithographic or painting purposes? That is, I know paper that has higher moisture levels will absolutely mold, especially in the right heat conditions. It is why you have to be careful in how you keep books in differing humidity georgraphical areas. Still, it is relatively hard for paper that is 'open' to the elements to draw significant moisture from 'normal' humidity (non tropical) factors and usually it will not start the mold process. I am guessing that pressing out water after soaking would still leave hugely elevated amounts of water remaining in the paper pulp itself, and be more prone to such problems. The natural drying process is not the same as the kiln like rooms that paper is dried out in. |
#92
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Ryan Christoff
Daniel, |
#93
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About soaking cards
Posted By: T206Collector
I come back to my argument that it is just wrong to alter these historical treasures and they should always be maintained in the same condition in which they were found. |
#94
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About soaking cards
Posted By: barrysloate
For those who oppose removing cards from a scrapbook- and I would like to add that I have never owned a scrapbook of cards so my argument is purely theoretical- what if you simply don't want them glued in and would prefer to remove them so that they can be placed in plastic sheets and merged with the rest of one's collection? Should they still be left as is? I realize we reach a dilemma when the cards eventually hit the marketplace, but until that point what's wrong with removing them? What if poor quality paste was used and the cards pretty much fall out with just a little pressure. I don't even know what we are arguing about (actually, every topic on this board ends in an argument, so why am I surprised?) |
#95
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About soaking cards
Posted By: E, Daniel
Ryan, I would have to think that these magically cleaned off cards that have had the glue removed so effortlessly that they now reside in high grade holders would answer your first question. Obviously, 90+ years of being in contact with most glues of that time had absolutely zero effect on the card's structure or finish. Perhaps some staining, but generally no flesh eating disorders resulting in layers of paper being digested. |
#96
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About soaking cards
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
In the past, when I broke slabbed cards from their little tombs, I thought it was ok... was I altering those cards? Once slabbed, was I supposed to leave them in there? |
#97
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About soaking cards
Posted By: E, Daniel
Barry, me thinks it is possible to remove these cards without soaking them. |
#98
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About soaking cards
Posted By: T206Collector
[Anything in between to me has no real meaning as I can have no hope of knowing if one man's steak was simply another man's jerky.] |
#99
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About soaking cards
Posted By: scott brockelman
You SOAK them off of covers and dry them and collect them. It has no ill effect on them and it is 100% condoned by the hobby. |
#100
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About soaking cards
Posted By: John S
After reading the posts I really cannot decide (and probably do not care enough) whether cards have been soaked. If a seller was aware I would probably appreciate having that information disclosed. I have a few examples with scrapbook still attached, none of which have anything terribly important on the reverse (a T206 and a N302 come to mind). This one left some card behind but also took a little scrapbook. |
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