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#1
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I'm curious to know if any fellow net54 members have experienced similar issues dealing with SGC?
While attending Boston's 2018 Shriners Show, I went to SGC to get this 1921 National Caramel card that once belonged to Buck Barker authenticated. I had several letters of Buck's with me for verification. The kid next to me said that that was an option that could be done. However, the conversation went down hill from there because the guy next to him told me the exact opposite -that they don't authenticate cards like this -despite corroborating evidence like other known cards and a letter Barker wrote to Walt Corson for comparison. The guy told me that they don't do handwriting analysis and that any corroborating material has to come from family members. Say what? Carter's card came directly from Doug Allen. I then showed him a card they graded from Lionel Carter's collection and asked him when that card was sent in (2-15-07). I asked him who sent it in and he said it was an auction house, that it wasn't Carter himself. They refused to tell me who the auction house was but I already knew. It was Bill Mastro and Doug Allen, and there is video of that by both men on youtube...so why at this point be evasive? Is SGC favoring auction houses over dealers and schmucks such as myself (a question SGC refused to answer when I asked)? How much money is going in to the these grading companies from the auction houses in order to receive preferential treatment? If I was at an auction house, then they would grade it? The grader at SGC said I needed evidence and I showed it to him and he still refused. Is the auction house's expertise any better or worse than mine? This sounds like it's pay to play and the auction houses send these grading companies a shit load of money. How is this a level playing field? I left so bullshit that I ate not one, but two of those lousy hotdogs at the concession stand! What do you all say about this? Thanks -Ryan |
#2
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Just a neutral opinion from someone who has no skin in the game. |
#3
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I had a similar issue with PSA last month; bought two P2 pins of Harry Lord from the Harry Lord collection auctioned by Saco River. Sent them in to PSA that said hundred year old pins/cards of a player owned by said player aren't important enough to be given a pedigree.
Maybe if Saco had sent the 15-20 in all at once with provenance from the family, but not just for the two items I won during the auction.
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-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#4
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It was well-known that Allen was submitting Carter's collection; that's a bit different with due respect than someone just walking up to their booth asking them to assess letters.
__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions. ![]() My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ |
#5
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While I concur with the others who say SGC doesn’t want to be in the provenance game on who used to own what, if they were going to do so, you looked prepared.
I kinda like the slabs with the hobby pioneer names on them. Not so seriously...Maybe had you told them about your dedication to the cause by eating two disgusting hot dogs...they could have been swayed. Eating the “lips and tails special” on the way in , instead of out...could’ve made the difference ![]()
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Thanks! Brian L Familytoad Ridgefield, WA Hall of Fame collector. Prewar Set collector. Topps Era collector. 1971 Topps Football collector. |
#6
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Next time drive to Simards Super Roast 10 minutes away. Better than the hotdog stand (I grew up in Wilmington Ma).
Sorry about your experience. I’ve had nothing but good experiences with SGC but I’m only submitting very common items. |
#7
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I completely agree with Marchillo on both topics. Simahds (proper pronounciation..lol) is an elite eatery compared to the concession stand at Shriners. Gotta go "3 way king beef" to fully appreciate the excellence of such an establishment.
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#8
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If you haven't seen these threads yet, I suggest that you do so. I also suggest that we start cleaning up this hobby fast and start holding people accountable. As I am to understand, Bill Mastro and company signed an agreement through his lawyers that he's never to do business again in the hobby.
To put it mildly, I wasn't thrilled by many of the responses to my thread about this, but unfortunately I feel a little vindicated. This isn't something to feel good about and I know how much money is involved which is why some dealers are willing to look the other way. It's only when you screw over the wrong person that change starts to come. http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=1#post1830616 |
#9
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#10
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I can tell you for a fact that one certain auction house used to get preferred treatment from PSA as I have experienced it first hand. I consigned a very large ungraded collection to Mastro back in 1999 and when discussing the collection and potential cards to grade, I was told by Brian Marren with Mastro to let them send the cards in to grade as any cards on the fence would get the bump to the higher grade.
Don't believe for a second that any auction house submissions aren't known by the graders. |
#11
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The larger issue that I agree with is known auction houses and huge dealers getting preferrential treament. How many times either here or on Facebook groups do you see jokes about Probstein/PWCC/4 Sharp Corners? Oh, that's a "4SC 8". The foundation of it goes back further than that. The evidence today is kind of scant, but it stands to reason depending on what you read - that back during Mastro's heyday the man employed a virtual department of card doctors. How many of those cards wound up in PSA slabs due to a cozy arrangment? It stands to reason at least some (and of course I'm not including here the example of the most expensive card in the hobby...) I've seen primers you can find on Google on card doctoring - corner restoration, etc. - and some of their examples of bad cards you can clearly see the card is IN a PSA slab while this is being pointed out. That kind of thing is the more egregous stuff. What you do increasingly see evidence of is auction house submits a card with a wrinkle on the back that gets a 6, Joe Blow collector submits the same card and gest a 4. I don't have personal evidence of this but I've seen enough examples to more or less believe it's true.
__________________
Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Cubs of all eras. Currently working on 1956, '63 and '72 Topps complete sets. |
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