Auction oddities: Using the PSA Auction Results site

[swarmee]

Figured this would be a neat thread to start, now that PSA has released their VCP competitor that is free to use (at least currently). Figured we could post some pricing oddities spotted while we search this to see cards that are hot, sell for way too little, or whatever. I have already marked about 50 entries as errors because they linked the wrong Cert# to the auction so the card showing is not the card they think it is.

https://www.psacard.com/auctionprice.../values/182634
1961 Topps #26 Wes Stock. Two auction sales of PSA 9s for around $30 in the spring, then an auction and BIN for $300 at end of 2017.

Edit: Also, I figure I'll spot check these on a volunteer basis to make the tool more useful just like I do for COMC. I'll start by reporting all errors I find in 1961 Topps (randomly selected it and started). Anyone want to take a different year?

[swarmee]

1961 Topps #48 AL Pitching Leaders in PSA 9:
https://www.psacard.com/auctionprice...ues/182660#g=9

DATE	PRICE	GRADE	LOT #	AUCTION HOUSE	AUCTION / SELLER	TYPE	CERT

9/12/2016	$82.22	9	142105897940	eBay	pwcc_auctions	Auction	26028087

1/16/2017	$41.25	9	381923596230	eBay	savingforthewedding071517	Auction	24563974

7/9/2017	$181.40	9	362026757184	eBay	probstein123	Auction	27494150

11/6/2017	$22.00	9	382267742078	eBay	probstein123	Auction	27827852

[swarmee]

1961 Topps #154 Bobby Del Greco PSA 8: precipitous fall in value over a year, and a couple days.

DATE	PRICE	GRADE	LOT #	AUCTION HOUSE	AUCTION / SELLER	TYPE	CERT

9/22/2016	$154.00	8	311696846566	eBay	gregmorriscards	Auction	40047474

11/21/2016	$89.76	8	351903120366	eBay	pwcc_auctions	Auction	24049629

5/1/2017	$89.79	8	352035695122	eBay	pwcc_auctions	Auction	12407770

5/4/2017	$26.89	8	382061250079	eBay	probstein123	Auction	06596169

This one is pretty crazy: #170 Al Smith PSA 8

DATE	PRICE	GRADE	LOT #	AUCTION HOUSE	AUCTION / SELLER	TYPE	CERT

9/22/2016	$141.50	8	131937400559	eBay	gregmorriscards	Auction	11269444

11/20/2016	$89.88	8	381848301480	eBay	just_collect	Auction	11577913

11/21/2016	$282.00	8	142176823860	eBay	pwcc_auctions	Auction	50060813

5/1/2017	$28.89	8	401311694395	eBay	pwcc_auctions	Auction	12415269

7/17/2017	$79.77	8	372008949130	eBay	probstein123	Auction	23179427

10/23/2017	$147.50	8	372103139291	eBay	pristine_paper	Auction	20042985

10/24/2017	$84.99	8	202085892637	eBay	cooperstownsportscards	Auction	22527516

[onlyvintage62]

The problem with raw data is this.

There are 8's and there are 8's. Centering is SO SO Important (IMO) that it makes a big difference. Also anold 8 could be submitted for a bump.

This is not that uncommon for it to happen.

[swarmee]

It's not just raw data; you can see pictures of 90% of the cards by going to the link. Centering did not seem to be a big deal (wide variance) on the cards I'm pointing out. I realize that not every 9 is a strong 9. But when a 9 varies from $30-300 over the course of a year, that is a BIG swing.

[swarmee]

1961 Topps #350 Ernie Banks PSA 9: There are 49 no qualifier PSA 9s in the current Pop Report, out of approx 2000 submitted. Of those, 21 unique certs are in the database as having sold. Only two have sold twice. I am sure there are many more validated sales in VCP, since they have a longer eBay auction history.

One five months apart by PWCC both times (consignor lost $100), and one 7 years apart by Mile High (consignor made $50, which probably translates to a loss due to BP).

In the span of one month in 2007, this card lost $1220, or two thirds of its value. It went from $1826 w/BP in Goodwin to $609 w/BP in Memory Lane.

[Marchillo]

So here's an example that I can attest to. A guy had two Koufax cards listed I was interested in. A 62 and 66. I made an offer for the two cards. He agreed and lowered one of the cards to meet the pricing we agreed to. However eBay was doing 10% bucks on a min purchase of $50. Anyways I ended up paying the agreed upon amount for the two cards on just the 66 listing. So now that 66 Koufax is overstated by a good $35. Not sure why eBay doesn't just do min purchase by seller. I personally like to keep the price history of the auctions. But why would I settle for $0.78 bucks versus $7.80.

[swarmee]

If you know which card it is, you can report it to them as a sale of multiple cards and they will remove it.

[Marchillo]

Originally Posted by swarmee

If you know which card it is, you can report it to them as a sale of multiple cards and they will remove it.

I'll do that. Cards are set to arrive today. Once I receive and confirm everything I'll contact them.

Thanks Steve

[Jenx34]

Thanks for the thread. I've done a little looking around and have seen some differences when comparing recent results between the PSA and VCP databases. One example is 1966 Topps Mantle. PSA's auction prices show two recent sales of $130 & $145 on PSA 4's. VCP doesn't show either of those sales. Both were on Ebay in the month of December. On the flip side, PSA missed a $112 sale also in December.

So I ask, how good can VCP be if it is missing sales, regardless of whether they are high or low? I also know that while VCP indicates in their FAQ that their database is updated almost immediately, I have seen sometimes a few weeks before a card I sold appears.

If these are software programs tied to ebay, how can their be such variances?

Lastly, I also noted a much higher price on another card (I don't remember which one it was) on PSA's new page and noticed it was a 7 rather than a 4 or 5. So if you see something that looks out of the norm, be sure to click and actually view the original ebay listing with pictures.

[swarmee]

Here's an interesting downgrade.
1933 Goudey #3 Hugh Critz. Cert #01103184

Sold in 2005 as a PSA 7 at Memory Lane
https://memorylaneinc.com/site/bids/bidplace?itemid=535

Currently shows up in database as PSA 4.5

[swarmee]

DATE	PRICE	GRADE	LOT #	AUCTION HOUSE	AUCTION / SELLER	TYPE	CERT

8/8/2008	$11,027.38	8	82	Goodwin and Co. Auctions	1952 Topps Set	Auction	11115921

11/10/2010	$853.00	8	169	SCP Auctions	SCP Auctions November 2010 Internet Auction	Auction	11115921

Ouch.

Same flipper also probably lost $2500 on this one:

8/8/2008	$6,113.53	8	103	Goodwin and Co. Auctions	1952 Topps Set	Auction	04097724

11/10/2010	$3,586.00	8	187	SCP Auctions	SCP Auctions November 2010 Internet Auction	Auction	04097724

Bloodbath:

8/8/2008	$19,199.50	8	104	Goodwin and Co. Auctions	1952 Topps Set	Auction	05098553

11/10/2010	$1,517.00	8	188	SCP Auctions	SCP Auctions November 2010 Internet Auction	Auction	05098553

[pclpads]

Results are 7+ years old for the SCP items(s). From your post, looks like SCP sold the same Zernial card 3x in the same auction on the same day / date?

[swarmee]

Oh, yeah, I get that. If you look, those three cards (and actually a BUNCH more) were bought in the same Goodwin auction and then consigned two years later to SCP where they all fell drastically. There were more I spotted but didn't feel like linking. Maybe it would be a good case study disproving the people that don't think high-grade vintage ever loses ground. Just because 8 is the Top Pop today doesn't mean it will be next month...

Yes, there are some data issues. I report them when I see them so PSA can take them out. I probably reported 20 errors today while browsing 50 different card pages. I went back and checked to see if the ones I reported last couple of weeks have been removed/fixed and a few already were. I wish there was a record of which cards you've reported errors for and whether or not PSA changed them yet.

[The-Cardfather]

Based on what I've read here and by a misreported price on a card that I purchased on eBay, I don't have a lot of confidence in PSA's numbers.

I recently made an offer of $600.00 on a 1960 Eddie Mathews PSA 9 offered for sale on eBay at $649.95. My offer was accepted and the transaction went smoothly. (Yes. I know I overpaid.) However, PSA is reporting the purchase price as the original $649.95.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/192418387887?rmvSB=true

Does anyone know if Vintage Card Prices numbers are more accurate?

[swarmee]

Thanks for letting me know about Best Offers Accepted not being correctly logged by PSA. I will see that they get that information. Usually watchcount shows the proper Best Offer value, but eBay may not be accurately providing it to PSA (or VCP for that matter).

[Leon]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Thanks for letting me know about Best Offers Accepted not being correctly logged by PSA. I will see that they get that information. Usually watchcount shows the proper Best Offer value, but eBay may not be accurately providing it to PSA (or VCP for that matter).

Do you work for PSA? I use google, ebay advanced search on sold sales and several other sites for pricing. I don't use VCP or any other pay site.

[swarmee]

No, but I just submitted a correction to the listing. The user HawkDynasty on COMC/ih8ca on Blowout is in direct contact with them about this service.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1178496

So I have an "in". Plus, they've already implemented some of my recommendations and are looking into the others. I work for the U.S. Air Force.

[swarmee]

Just checked these cards I bought via Best Offer:

11/4/2017	$56.00	7	263293949547	eBay	cookiemonster501	Best Offer	27663581

10/7/2017	$34.00	8	362103254674	eBay	psagradedcards.com	Best Offer	24266161

10/7/2017	$15.00	1	302431553632	eBay	dlemon01	Best Offer	20408951

They have the correct sale price. Maybe there's just a delay involved in retrieving the Best Offer prices.

Just looked up some others and it looks like they've removed pricing data for PSA/DNA autographed cards, rather than just noting that they're autographed. I would prefer to see the autographed cards listed with a note saying they're auto rather than deleting the sales history of those cards.

[MCoxon]

I’ve searched this database and found that something like 70% of my purchases on relatively scarce items don’t show up (things like bazooka boxes where there are only 7-8 total listed over the past 5 years, and mine from the past few months are not)

[The-Cardfather]

Originally Posted by The Cardfather

Based on what I've read here and by a misreported price on a card that I purchased on eBay, I don't have a lot of confidence in PSA's numbers.

I recently made an offer of $600.00 on a 1960 Eddie Mathews PSA 9 offered for sale on eBay at $649.95. My offer was accepted and the transaction went smoothly. (Yes. I know I overpaid.) However, PSA is reporting the purchase price as the original $649.95.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/192418387887?rmvSB=true

Does anyone know if Vintage Card Prices numbers are more accurate?

Originally Posted by swarmee

Thanks for letting me know about Best Offers Accepted not being correctly logged by PSA. I will see that they get that information. Usually watchcount shows the proper Best Offer value, but eBay may not be accurately providing it to PSA (or VCP for that matter).

Just to clarify......
I didn't submit a "Best Offer" because that wasn't an option. I simply sent the seller a message via eBay offering him $600.00. He then sent me an "offer" (to purchase for $600.00). If I remember correctly, the offer expired in 24 or 48 hours.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by MCoxon

I’ve searched this database and found that something like 70% of my purchases on relatively scarce items don’t show up (things like bazooka boxes where there are only 7-8 total listed over the past 5 years, and mine from the past few months are not)

Can you see the certification number and barcode in your first image? Do you put PSA in your title?

[hcv123]

A clemente rookie graded psa 6.5 sold by Pietra cert #25244961 is CURRENTLY listed for 7499.00. The PSA database shows the same cert sold by the same seller on August 1 2017 for 7999.00 - a HUGE jump over Previous sales.

[MCoxon]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Can you see the certification number and barcode in your first image? Do you put PSA in your title?

I don't put PSA in the search bar. Two specific examples are 1960 Morrrell Meats Koufax (PSA 6, purchased mid-2016 off eBay) and 1961 Morrell Meats Koufax (PSA 6, purchased mid-2016 off eBay). One was an auction, one was a best offer accepted; neither show up...

[swarmee]

Oh, that's because they only have 1 year's worth of eBay sales at this time. They have some auctionhouse data that goes back much further. Maybe they can contract with worthpoint to get access to prior sales.

[Jenx34]

Originally Posted by The Cardfather

Based on what I've read here and by a misreported price on a card that I purchased on eBay, I don't have a lot of confidence in PSA's numbers.

I recently made an offer of $600.00 on a 1960 Eddie Mathews PSA 9 offered for sale on eBay at $649.95. My offer was accepted and the transaction went smoothly. (Yes. I know I overpaid.) However, PSA is reporting the purchase price as the original $649.95.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/192418387887?rmvSB=true

Does anyone know if Vintage Card Prices numbers are more accurate?

I've found it sometimes takes awhile but the prices from PSA and VCP tend to synch over time. I've seen some not on one or the other so its not a matter of one of them gets the info quicker. In the case of your card, I'm sure how your transaction went with the private message/direct offer had to do with it. VCP doesn't have your purchase recorded yet. See the pics.

[JollyElm]

Since I saw this thread and started referring to the site, it's been a pretty awesome research vehicle to get a decent idea of what something should go for. Problem is, almost everything I look up cannot be found at close to the recent prices realized (and shown) via ebay (not talking about 'best offer' listings, but regular BIN's). Everything is much more expensive, unfortunately. Guess I'm going to have to wait the sellers out until their prices come down. Plus, weirdly enough, a bunch of cards I bought off of ebay from a bunch of different years and a bunch of different sellers (all BIN's) aren't shown at all. I have checked and double checked and they are nowhere to be found on the site, even though I bought some of them one or two years ago. Very, very strange, so I imagine it is clearly not a comprehensive assessment of prices realized. Has anyone else found their purchases over the last couple of years to be missing from the listings there??

(I haven't gone back and re-read this entire thread, so my apologies if this has been covered already.)

[swarmee]

It has been covered. The eBay listings only go back about 15 months; that must be when they started scraping the data. The auctionhouse listings go back to the 2005 timeframe, depending on the AH.
I bought a nice card for $199 last night on eBay when sales according to the website ranged from $240-400 on eBay.