A Collector, Mastro, PSA & Our Beloved Hobby

[Archive]

Posted By: John

I’m going to discuss and bring all of you up to speed on a confusing situation that I have been roughly aware of for some time, and as of a few days ago in talking to some very long term collectors and hobby insiders was able to obtain even more info on an ugly situation for all of us.

I’m going to keep this simple and to the point and as transparent as I can. This is not a bash anyone thread this is a thread with a purpose to inform you so you can be aware of what many of us view as questionable practices that happen in our hobby, and so that hopefully the right thing can be done for some of the parties involved who are out significant sums of money, and hopefully changes will be made to better this hobby down the road.

Here is the summary of the issue of what I know and what I have been told.

1.)It starts in the late 90’s early 2000 with a man named George Hober who had a little business empire going making doctored cards, of which one of his claims to fame is fake Snodgrass error cards “Nodgrass”. The problem with George like a lot of crooks was he was caught by the details, like grandpa always said it’s the little things that get you.

2.)Hober’s downfall was his Nodgrass cards were impossible, wrong backs, wrong pose etc. not to mention but for those who don’t know the few real Nodgrass cards that are out there have some of the remaining “S” intact it’s one of the only ways to tell if you’re looking at a potential real Nodgrass if all the “S” is gone it’s bogus.

3.)Despite these issues Hober did manage to pass off some cards to some pretty serious collectors and get these cards in reputable holders as well.

4.)In the late 90’s early 2000 Hober dumped about 3-4 of these cards via eBay one of which is the very card that was withdrawn from the current Mastro auction picture below. There was also a raw catching pose Nodgrass sold to a collector but for now were going to focus on just two of Hober’s jobs.

5.)The Cycle Nodgrass PSA 5, first of all not possible with the Cycle brand back or at least never found let’s say that, as anything I guess is possible to a degree. This card was won on eBay in 1999 for $9500 by a collector T206nate. The under bidder on this very card was another fellow collector which if I’m not mistaken was Doug Allen.



6.)Now from what I have been told and what I remember hearing from multiple people George Hober contacted the under bidder (Doug Allen) on the above card and sold yet another fake Nodgrass card for around 10k to Doug, this card was also graded by PSA. This card is even more odd as it was a catching pose Nodgrass which to date has never been found and does not exist.

7.)Sometime passed and when Hober’s fraud came to light many collectors were left scrambling to see if that Nodgrass they bought was real or a fake, unfortunately for Doug and our collector they were in fact fake. I have been told on good authority that Doug was compensated in some way by PSA and Joe Orlando and the card (Catching Pose) was destroyed etc. However our collector wasn’t so lucky having doubts about the card and wanting to know he consigned the card to REA, who in turn raised the same questions about its authenticity. The collector having hit a brick wall in terms of support from PSA looked to REA to help him add resolve to the issue. Rob Lifson then sent the card to PSA and spoke with Joe Orlando directly about the cards legitimacy. Rob even sent Joe a copy of the collectors check (below) to George Hober as even more proof of the questionable nature of this card. PSA in turn told REA that they would stand behind the grade and the cards authenticity and felt it was fine. REA refused to sell the item then the card was returned from PSA to REA, Rob explained their position to the collector and returned the card to the consignor.


omitted name and account number for obvious reasons

8.)Now in 2008 this very card PSA 5 Cycle Nodgrass Batting shows up yet again in Mastro’s auction, the very card at one time that once again from what I have heard and remember Doug Allen was the under bidder on. This very card which came from George Hober, in which Doug was unfortunate enough to fall victim himself to this card doctors unsavory work.

9.)Now I’d like to add and be clear that I give Mastro and Doug 100% the benefit of doubt here, these guys pump 100’s to 1000’s of lots on and through this auction house. They can’t personally overlook each and every card that passes through these front doors, kudos to Dan for catching it and Kudos to Doug for pulling it!

However for me the plot continues to get confusing from here and that’s what troubles me the most and raises the most questions.

After seeing this lot posted and caught by Dan McKee and hearing the stories and remembering this whole Nodgrass fake Hober history, I’d be lying if I didn’t say I raised an eyebrow. What really made me cringe was the disclaimer on the lot itself?

I’ve been bidding and watching Mastro lots since I was a kid; I don’t ever recall seeing a disclaimer like that on any lot do you? It made me wonder unless someone had firsthand knowledge of a cards questionable nature why protect yourself with a disclaimer passing off liability to another party?

Having heard the first hand stories and hobby talk which I brought you guys up to speed on about these Nodgrass cards, then seeing this very card end up in a Mastro auction with a disclaimer like no other before I really have to question what’s going on here. I also don’t want to jump to conclusions but I really hope this isn’t as ugly as it may seem, and let’s be honest here for a second this looks really bad not just for Mastro but especially for PSA!

How about PSA? We pay these guys lots of coin to protect us from this stuff; we also put an enormous amount of faith in their product. Yet right now there is a PSA Nodgrass which is so bad you can smell it though the holder and it’s floating out there like a loaded gun waiting to go off again on some uneducated collector who is putting his faith and money in the very system these guys created to protect him. To me that’s a crying shame, and PSA should be ashamed of themselves!

I’m asking and I think we all should be asking PSA to step up and make it right regardless of the fact that this card should have never made the auction block to begin with. This very card and this situation with Mastro & PSA is a serious problem, it’s stuff like this obvious issue that begs the question what else is slipping by, what else is going on and when will this house of cards (pun) fall down around our heads.

I’m going to also add I really have no dog in this fight other than the fact that I love this hobby and really just want straight answers to this situation from all parties involved. I would also like to see the right thing done by way of PSA to the collector and ultimately all of us, as we all put a lot of faith and trust in PSA’s services and they need to be accountable and stand behind their product and service. If PSA won’t be accountable for this what services are they really offering us in the end, and by not doing the right thing today they are really devaluing all of our collections.

I've also added an old SCD article that discusses these cards FYI.


*if you need a larger copy I can email you one, just trying to keep the images down for easy nav*

Thanks for your time and reading this long thread, I hope we can discuss this and spearhead at least a small step in the right direction together.

Cheers,
John

[Archive]

Posted By: Bob

John- Great work, now THIS is what this board is supposed to be about!
tbob

[Archive]

Posted By: Kevin Saucier

John and others, it doesn't stop at cards. Americana lots are also subject to deceit. I have mentioned this before but I can't think of a better time to bring it up again.




Much of this was not of significance, except for the button worn by a passenger that night. I called and they faxed over some of the provenance, part of which read:

*********************

"This is not a prop from the motion picture Titanic

It is a real piece of Titanic history

I am offering a very ornate button that was owned by a survivor of the Titanic. This buttons history is traced back to a couple that lived in Boston, Mass. I had originally been informed that the family name was Hopper but this is not the case. This button adorned a jacket owned by a first class passenger named Mrs. Harris. We believe that Mrs. Harris had traveled with her maid that had the last name Hopper and the first name Mary.

After the tragic event Mrs. Harris moved to Maryland and lived out the remainder of her life until her death at the age of 77.

The button has small blue gemstones....some are missing.

We are not sure how this happened, but rumors were told to me that it quite possibly happened the very night Titanic sank (this is not a certain fact)"

*********************

Mrs. Harris lived and died in NY at the age of 93 and was not known to have traveled with a maid (just her husband). Also there is no listing of passenger named Mary Hopper on the Titanic.

They still kept the auction going and eventually sold them to some unsuspecting collector...even after they were told there was no supporting evidence that the passenger listed in their description ever existed and that the seller was a suspected ebay fraudster.

Other Titanic experts questioned the photo and watch fob as well but I have no idea about their authenticity.





------------------------------

www.AlteredCards.com - in-depth education on advanced card doctoring techniques & detection with detailed examples

[Archive]

Posted By: Kevin Saucier

I would really like the opportunity to examine one of these fake Nodgrass cards in person.



------------------------------

www.AlteredCards.com - in-depth education on advanced card doctoring techniques & detection with detailed examples

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

There are an awful lot of troubling stories that get posted on this board seemingly every day. It can get pretty depressing after a while.

What is preposterous about this is how a "Nodgrass, catching" could possibly exist. The batting variation was caused by a tiny foreign object that lodged into the "S" of the printing plate. Are we supposed to believe that the batting pose, which appeared in a different spot on the sheet if not on a different sheet, had the same foreign object lodged in the exact same place on its "S"? What's the likelihood of that?

[Archive]

Posted By: Rick McQuillan

John, thanks for the great research. Most of my T-cards are raw, but when I buy one of the more expensive T's or Goudey's I prefer to buy a graded example precisely to help protect myself against fakes, trims, and alterations.

I would guess that the Magee would be more difficult to alter than the Snodgrass, but does anyone know of any similar situations with the altered Magie error cards making it through the grading process?

Rick

[Archive]

Posted By: Bobby Binder

PSA should do the right thing and buy back this card from the owner and destroy it. Matter of fact they should of done it years ago especially after Rob sent it to them and pointed out there mistake. When a company can not admit it is wrong it is a bad day for the hobby.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Maybe Doug Allen can contact PSA and get the original owner's money back. After all, Doug seems to have incredibly good luck when it comes to his own dealings with PSA.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

It seems as though many auction companies have really good luck at getting what they want from PSA......Brockelman and Luckey Auctions not so much

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Yeah, I'm guessing when B & L breaks into 8 figures of gross sales a year your luck with PSA will mysteriously increase. Just a hunch. Good thing you bought all that stuff from Mastro -- those winnings put up on B & L will surely get you closer to that goal.

[Archive]

Posted By: Steve

PSA needs to step up and get all these bogus Nodgrass cards that they authenticated out of the hobby.

End of discussion as far as i am concerned.

Especially when Joe emailed me and stated "Our warranty applies to everything we look at. If the graders determine that to be the case, then the warranty applies."


Steve


edited to add: great thread John.

[Archive]

Posted By: boxingcardman

Human beings make mistakes (except for me of course). That isn't news and it isn't a surprise. PSA's graders flubbed on the nodgrass cards? It happens. However, human beings own up to their mistakes and try to make them right. Crapweasels evade, dissemble and avoid their mistakes. What doesn't bother me is that the human beings grading cards occasionally make errors. What very much bothers me is that the crapweasels running PSA try to hide from their graders' mistakes. We've seen enough of these occurrences that we know behaving like crapweasels is SOB at PSA.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

[Archive]

Posted By: Joann

Hahahaha. Crapweasels. hahahaha. Best one I've heard in a long time.

You are exactly right Adam. It's not the understandable and even absorbable mistake. It's the attempt to walk away from it.

I have a guy in my dept that does the same thing. He is generally good enough to afford some mistakes and has made a few very understandable mistakes recently. But for some reason he wants to spin and recharacterize his actions and misrepresent facts and all manner of things. I kind of pounded him for it Monday. And although he doesn't know it, this poor unfortunate soul will now always be 'crapweasel' to me whenever I see him. lolol

But it does leave an interesting option out there for PSA. If they do not intend to refund anything to the buyer, they should at least provide a lucid and clear and non-crapweasely explanation for why they should not have to bear the financial burden alone. There may be such reasons.

Does it make a difference if the buyer knew or should have known that it was a fake? Does the extent of reliance on the PSA flip matter? Would the same fake have sold for a similar amount raw? Did the buyer look at the PSA flip as a certification of the error, or did he just look at it as giving a condition grade? How much do these things matter?

I think PSA is at least on the hook for presenting an argument. I also think they should be on the hook for the money in general. But I can also think of several kinds of circumstances in which it might be unfair to ask them to take all responsibility. It seems like it would be in their best interests to point out those circumstances, if they exist.

Joann

ETA: And now that I think about it some more, I think that Mastro should also give some lucid and clear and non-crapweasely explanation for why it was in their auction, and even more important why it had such and odd and unnerving disclaimer.

Not that any business owes explanations - not at all. But it's hard to see how explanations wouldn't be a good idea for both PSA and Mastro from a business sense. It seems like the industry and community will decide that if no explanations are given, it is because none are available. And that can't be good for either business.

[Archive]

Posted By: Phil B.

PSA, which is now part of a publicly traded company, is going to one day have to answer for their many transgressions several of which have been brought to light on this board. I have had similar issues as the one originated in this post- but my most recent bothersome example of PSA's lack of care was when I submitted two '33 Goudey Ruth's which I received back in a box ungraded with no explanation of any kind- however, PSA charged the grading fees. I emailed customer service assuming there had been some mistake. Did someone accidentally just mail them back to me? Were the cards deemed to be ungradeable for some reason? Doesn't the charging of a fee to me imply that I am entitled at least to an explanation of what service I received for the fee charged? I emailed customer service- nothing. I mailed customer service- nothing. I wrote a letter directly to Joe Orlando- nothing. So I paid $60 to have two perfectly good cards mailed back to me in a box. Both were ultimately graded by SGC although one was graded Authentic (trimmed).

I predict (and hope) that PSA or CU will eventually become the defendant in a lawsuit either regarding a particular high value mess like the one in this post- or perhaps a class action suit from a group of similarly mistreated parties who band together. PSA assumes that the little guy will just slink away - which is partly why the known "big boys" are possibly better catered to. But the little guy will not sit by silently forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

I spoke to Doug Allen today. He said that in the middle of a big auction he is not going to try to tackle commenting on this issue but will do so afterwards. He absolutely admits it was a mistake to run the card and they pulled it. The good news is that he has the card in his possession and it's not going anywhere where it will be mistaken for a legit Nodgrass card. He also said he spoke to Joe O about it in the last day or so and they have agreed to revisit the whole issue soon. I would guess that Joe will make it right, buy the card back and get it out of a PSA holder. It can't be good for his company to have that card in a holder. Once again, Doug said he will make a statement concerning this card after the auction is over....I would venture to guess it will be within a week or two as I am sure he and Joe have to hash it out and they are both busy folks. For the record I am not a Joe O hater or a PSA hater. I wish Joe would return my calls to talk but no big deal. I have been dismissed by worse folks.

One other thing.....Doug told me to let ALL net54 VBCF members know that his offer is still good for the waiving of the $75 sign up fee for any member here to Mastro Auctions. All you have to do is mention Network54 and that Doug said it would be a courtesy registration and you will be set. If anyone has an issue while doing this just email me or Doug and it will get fixed immediately. This offer is in effect until there is something written that it is no longer in effect. Hope this helps a little bit. Everyone can take my bias into account in this post but the facts I have presented are what they are. I like Doug and Mastro Auctions as I do most other auction companies....advertiser or not. best regards

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Leon, I'd love to know how frequently Joe and Doug already discussed this card. And what information was previously provided to Doug about this card which caused Mastro to slide in that weak disclaimer.

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

I doubt that you have beed dismissed by worse Leon. WOW! A truly thorough post Sir John. Dan.

[Archive]

Posted By: Matt R

LOL, I thought it was bad that a drunk guy could get two out of three trimmed cards past their graders. This takes the prize. I work for Amazon.com and if a similar damning issue hit our company I would imagine Jeff Bezos would have us handing out refunds or free gift certificates right and left until everyone affected was happy. What is this card worth? $10K or so? Why would you put your entire company's reputation on the line for $10K? I'd like to hear their side of the story. I'm not too familiar with the "Nodgrass" error card but it sounds like it's a slam dunk case that the card is bogus.

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

Yes slam dunk bad, no doubt about it. Unfortunately PSA doesn't have the knowledge of 90% of the board members here yet they never bother to contact any of us for help that I know of.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joseph

Great post! Rational, well-thought-out arguments, but, in the end, very sad.

This third party grading situation is getting more and more like Alice in Wonderland
every day. Like, read THIS disclaimer from a Ruth ball (Lot 1509) from the Mastro auction:

(The relic's legitimacy is so certain, in our view, that Mastro Auctions is presenting the Mint-condition gem without a PSA letter, as that company declined to provide one.) LOA from James Spence Authentication.

The lot was withdrawn despite the "so certain" legitimacy because, according to an e-mail from Allen, James Spence "was not comfortable with the autograph." Maybe it's more like Spy vs. Spy.

I don't read this board as often as I once did, so forgive me if there already was a discussion about Robert Lifson's excellent blog post (on REA's site) about authentication. While I might not agree with his arguments from a legal perspective, I SO love his notion that IF YOU DON'T BUY THE PREMISE of third party authentication, then DON"T BUY AUTOGRAPHS (or baseball cards). Amen.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Yeah, Joe, I had a feeling you might like this thread. Seemed a tad up your alley.

[Archive]

Posted By: Richard S. Simon

Twenty two years I am in this hobby and it used to be a whole lot more fun.
Forgers of autographs, card doctors, questionable authentications, questionable grading, scams on the internet, multiple e bay crooks, crooked auction houses that take six months to pay consignors, crooked auction houses with shill bidders, Babe Ruth signed baseball that is certainly good and then withdrawn by the auction, TVreports about the hobby all of them negative,an error card that vanishes from an auction, the FBI's involvment in the hobby.
What a freakin' mess!
--


I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

[Archive]

Posted By: boxingcardman

On the nosie!!! Thanks for the perfect analogy Joseph.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

[Archive]

Posted By: DD

Did PSA make a mistake? Did Spence make a mistake? Did he cave so Mastro could save face?

All this, and it's apparently good as well.

Stay tuned for our next episode of As The Ball Turns.

[Archive]

Posted By: Nick

I think, to a certain extent, all these "mistakes" have to be judged on intent.

What i mean by that is... If PSA makes right on the "Nodgrass", then at the end of the day, i think it ends up being a good story about the hobby, not a bad one. Sure, it stinks that the card got into a holder in the first place, but thats human error. The major auction houses put out several thousand lots each year and to only have an issue with a few, really isnt a bad percentage. While everyone would like it to be a perfect hobby, it never was, and never will be.

It is hard to judge intent though.. Take the Ruth ball. While it would be great for PSA and JSA to agree on EVERY autograph, thats not going to happen. So as an auction house, you have to say either... A- we are only going to take items that BOTH agree on (which will lose them money at times) or B- Do what they think is truly right. It appears that (and im guessing here) that greed got the best of Mastro at first and then when they got a little heat, they rethought things and made the right decision. Again, at the end of the day, they got it right.

The bigger issue is with truly crooked people.. The found cards in the grandparents attic..... blatant forgers.....Shill bidding auction houses, etc.... Im not a lover of PSA or JSA or Mastro or REA.. and they all make mistakes but in the long run I think that they do try there best to "get it right" and i think thats all you can ask for. If everyone did that, slowly, maybe the hobby would be "more fun" like it was 20 years ago.

[Archive]

Posted By: Steve

20 years ago people were trimming, recoloring and forging auto's anyone ever hear of
a store in Westchester call Fantasia? Slimy buyers offering peanuts for collections?
Slimy sellers claiming everything was mint?

I think the hobby as a whole is much better off now then it was then. I have been in this hobby for
almost 40 years. The 80's were the worst.

The problem as I see it is that we hear about all the negative
stuff more often now.


Steve

[Archive]

Posted By: Richard Simon

Was Fantasia the store that was owned by Danny Dubcek?
--

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

[Archive]

Posted By: John

Leon;

Good stuff, thanks for speaking with Doug I understand busy all to well, I’m really looking forward to hearing Doug’s side of the story on this when he gets a little less busy via the auction etc.

Cheers,
John

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Doug emailed me over the weekend and gave me his side of the story. I won't post his emails but the bottom line is this:

Mastro put that disclaimer in the listing solely due to the concerns voiced by the consignor of the legitimacy of the card. The person at Mastro who handled the consignment did not do any follow-up to attempt to learn whether that information was right or wrong; a disclaimer was just put in the listing. In fact, the first time Doug (or anyone from Mastro) has ever spoken to Joe O (or anyone from PSA) about the card was this past weekend.

When the history of the card was brought to Doug's attention he pulled the card from the auction.

Doug will send the card to Joe for his review.

And there you have it.

[Archive]

Posted By: Patrick McHugh

I have my own opinion on all and i mean all Nodgrass cards with no S or partial S. They are all doctored. I do not have any proof but think about this. Major hobby pioneers and other t206 collectors collecting for what 90 years. And all of a sudden these cards just show up 10 or so years ago. I would love to have MR. Lipsets opinion on this as well as some other hobby veterens Mr Carter comes to mind.

[Archive]

Posted By: Anonymous

Was Fantasia the store that was owned by Danny Dubcek?


Yes


Steve

[Archive]

Posted By: Nick

So let me get this right...

Mastro gets a consignment in which the consignor himself voices some concern over the cards legitimacy and they do NO looking further? That sounds very odd. I know they have a ton of lots, but this isnt a $5 card we are talking about.

To me, the fact that the consignor raised questions (and they did nothing) makes Mastro look worse. I am glad that they did the right thing at the end of the day though. Now if PSA makes right, it appears all will have a happy ending.

[Archive]

Posted By: Todd Schultz

"So let me get this right...

Mastro gets a consignment in which the consignor himself voices some concern over the cards legitimacy and they do NO looking further? That sounds very odd. I know they have a ton of lots, but this isnt a $5 card we are talking about."

Agreed.

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

Patrick, my Nodgrass error was acquired in the 1970s and for no extra money. You are completely all wet! There are legit ones.

Also, I know for a FACT that the original consigner to this Nodgrass tried to contact Doug Allen directly several times via email and phone and that Doug would NOT get back to him. I was carboned on every email.

The original owner NEVER sent the card to PSA for multiple reviews. He contacted Joe Orlando after Robert Lifson stated that it was bad and Joe Orlando stated that any other auction house will auction it.

Enough with the dancing around here, the card is bad and Doug knows it and Joe knows it. And they both KNOW it. Sorry Doug, this is ridiculous at this point.

Tell your buddy to refund Nate and be done with it. PSA looks horrible as usual with customer service!

Sincerely disappointed
Dan Mckee

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Well, that's their story and they are sticking to it.

I wonder if anyone at Mastro has ever heard of the term "conscious avoidance"? Perhaps not.

[Archive]

Posted By: Josh

I really don't understand why PSA wouldn't take that card out of circulation. Whatever they have to do to get that card they should do it. Makes no sense. It looks very bad on their part in my opinion.

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

You want to know why PSA won't take the card out of circulation????

$9500.00 is why!

[Archive]

Posted By: Jason

Hopefully they do the right thing and deal with it.

I found this board around the time Dan had his issue with PSA and the Magie card. (I think I got that right) I read it from time to time but only got back into card collecting this past year. Good too see the board is still going strong. (Bad to see that their are still fraudulent activities going on in this great hobby)

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe K.

So Doug didn’t know this card, which he knew to be bogus, was in his auction? Not until Dan catches it and informs Doug is it pulled? Huh??... I would think Doug would have seen it and immediately recognized it in his own auction. I know there are tons of lots but I would think Doug previews/scans the auction at least once at a high level before it goes live or at least when it goes live. Maybe next time he should spend some time perusing his own catalog.

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

Let it be known that Mastro Auctions did the right thing ONLY AFTER Dan Mckee forced their hand. The card was put up and with the extra verbiage for a reason. There was no way I was going to let this garbage stay up and burn someone. I contacted Doug and to his credit, he removed the item from auction. Now he needs to get Joe Orlando to refund the owner. This should have NEVER gone this far. As soon as the card was mailed to Mastro Auctions, PSA should have been told it was bad and to refund the owner. Actually, once Robert Edward Auctions refused the card, PSA should have refunded the owner as Rob Lifson has forgotten more than any PSA employee will ever know about pre-war cards. But PSA knowing the card would be sent to Mastro Auctions, thought they had an out! Kudos to Doug for pulling this POS and hopefully making it right for the owner of the card. Thanks Joe Orlando, always a pleasure, Dan.

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

Hey Leon, has Joe Orlando returned your calls yet??

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

sure....once upon a time......

[Archive]

Posted By: Patrick McHugh

Dan Thanks for your info. Card found in 70's has changed my view. Much respect Dan. Guess I will buy the first round! Patrick.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bill Todd

If you do the right thing, but for the wrong reason, then it's the wrong thing.

"Oops" is the right thing. "Well, if we have to" is not.

Bill

[Archive]

Posted By: John

Let's see Classic Collector auction "Nodgrass" card no disclaimer...this Auction and this "Nodgrass" card with disclaimer?????

Both "Nodgrass" cards in hand, one has discalimer one doesn't hmmmm...still scratching my head here in PA.

Cheers,

John

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

WOW! Never thought of this???? Very interesting, they must have had both Nodgrass cards at the same time. What is the explanation???

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

Owner of the Nodgrass was told that this would be taken care of by the end of last week. Today is a new week and he has received no communication nor restitution. I really think all of us, graded card collectors and raw card collectors alike need to pay attention to this particular situation and how it is resolved.

[Archive]

Posted By: John

Still no input from Doug either, I thought Doug said when things calmed down with the auction he would chime in....did I read that wrong?

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

I am very surprised at that myself. Mastro Auctions is very good about coming on the board and addressing issues. Several past posts have been addressed by Doug. I am mindboggled.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

Doug sent me this update this morning....cut and pasted with his permission. I don't blame him for not wanting to post after historical issues....

"As promised I wanted to shoot you an update on the Nodgrass card.

I sent the card back to PSA wtih a detailed explanation of the history
and my concerns with what exactally has been done to the card. I have
asked him to crack the card and examine it. I explained how if he holds
the raw card at 45 degree angle he can see the "sheen" the erasure
process has left on the affected error. I explained a loupe will not detect
the alteration. He has promised to reveiw it and get back to me. He
indicated he has never been contacted or has to his knowledge seen this
particular card.

I have been in contact with the consignor and he is satisfied with the
pace and status of this investigation.

Regards,
Doug"



edited my own typo