T206 sheets: Huge factory numbers at back bottom

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by Runscott

We've talked about sheet layout based on 'double name' cards. More on possible sheet lay-out definition, based on those partial huge factory numbers we find on the bottoms of some card backs. I read Tim's article today, and based the following on the sheet layout he shows at the bottom of this page: http://www.t206resource.com/Article-...stique-34.html

Assuming that the partial numbers at the bottom of some cards is the factory number, and given that we're finding multiple examples of the players that it shows up for, but relatively few cards show it, a few things to think about:

If we assume these examples were from cards that appear in the exact center of the sheet (with 8 players to either side), which to me makes sense, since all examples appear to be printed directly in the middle of the card,
and we assume that the player card always appeared in that position (as opposed to a different column on the sheet), also realizing that layouts will be different for different print groups (but we can tell this by the ad back),
and that there were always 4 rows per player, then...

You wouldn't expect to see any examples of such players with overly-tall fronts (fronts that don't show part of the name of the card above), since the partial '30' at the back bottom of some examples indicates that these players wouldn't appear in the top four rows. This would only be true within print groups;e.g-I have two SC 350/460 fact 30 Johnson portraits and wouldn't expect to see 'tall boys' for any SC 350/460 cards or any other ad backs printed at the same time.

The odds would be against all examples of a particular card showing partial factory at the bottom, being from the same ad back/factory combination. For instance, using the example above, I would expect to also find Piedmont 350/460 Johnson Portraits with the top of a 25 (or less likely, a 42).

If all of the above is true, then we should be able to get a good idea of how many different sheets were printed, just based on which cards have a partial factory on the bottom of their ad back, using the ad back 'print group' information we already have to determine the number of sheets per print group.

Just brainstorming here, so please add your thoughts.

That was a pretty cool article. I never read that one before.

[Luke]

I got Steinfeldt. It's my first one of these after keeping an eye out for them for a couple years. I was very excited when I found it!

[Sean]

Nice catch Luke.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by LukeLyon

I got Steinfeldt. It's my first one of these after keeping an eye out for them for a couple years. I was very excited when I found it!

Nice pickup Luke I'm glad you got it. I already had a Steinfeldt with the
factory number but for the BIN price on that one I wouldn't have passed
it up.

[Luke]

Thanks guys

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

That was a pretty cool article. I never read that one before.

Tim C and Jim R have a fantastic site I use it all the time and I'm amazed at how much work they must have put into it.

[oldcardboard]

I have Fred Clarke Portrait SC350.

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by oldcardboard

I have Fred Clarke Portrait SC350.

please post a scan... that would be a new one for the list.

[oldcardboard]

I'm terrible at posting pictures. I don't have a scanner,all I have access to is my tablet. I tried my best. I can take pretty good pictures with my phone,but wouldn't know how to get them to my tablet to post them. Yes,I am not very good with computer stuff. If someone wants to post pictures for me,I can text them pics. Here are my tablet pictures.

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by Jobu

I have another 30 to add to the list - Hemphill. This makes 15, as per the updated list below. Sorry to torpedo the possibilities for 14. At least Hemphill is also in Print Group 1 like everyone else on the list (Print Group 1).

• Ames (port)
• Beaumont
• Cobb (bat on)
• Durham
• Gilbert
• HEMPHILL
• Johnson (port)
• Killian (pitching)
• Mathewson (port)
• Merkle (port)
• Overall (port)
• Spade
• Steinfeldt (port)
• Tannehill ("L" on front-Chi.)
• Wagner (bat left)

[/QUOTE]

My bad about the Hemphill, I've known about its existence for awhile now. Just didn't realize it wasn't on the list.

Here is another example that I've known about for some time as well.

Jones (portrait)

[t206hound]

Here's the updated list; as pointed out earlier, all in print group 1.

• Ames (port)
• Beaumont
• Clarke (port)
• Cobb (bat on)
• Durham
• Gilbert
• Hemphill
• Johnson (port)
• Jones, Fielder (port)
• Keeler (with bat)
• Killian (pitching)
• Mathewson (port)
• Merkle (port)
• Overall (port)
• Spade
• Steinfeldt (port)
• Tannehill ("L" on front-Chi.)
• Wagner (bat left)

[Pat R]

I'm not 100% sure but it's in the right location and looks like the top of a
number and also another 150 subject.

[Jantz]

Looks good to me Pat.

Nice find and thank you for posting!

I was looking forward to talking with you at the National this year, but didn't see you all week.


Jantz

[Pat R]

I didn't make it to the national this year Jantz but I enjoyed talking with you
at last years, hopefully we can get together in AC next year if you're going.

[Jobu]

I know Cobb bat on is already on the list but there is no pic in this thread. (This one is on Ebay if anyone has been dying to get one).

[Pat R]

I picked up this Ames that has a patch of missing ink that the other two Ames posted in this thread also have. The Keeler posted in this thread also has the same exact spot that's missing ink. There are marks on some of the others that could possibly be used to pair up more of these.

[Luke]

That Ames is an amazing card, congrats! And great detective work as well!

[Jantz]

Damn good work Pat!

The missing ink on the crossbars could be a connector.

If we could find other players examples with this missing ink, then we could determine how many different sheets were printed for the Sweet Caporal 350-30 print run. It wouldn't matter now whether they have a sheet number or not.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Jantz

Damn good work Pat!

The missing ink on the crossbars could be a connector.

If we could find other players examples with this missing ink, then we could determine how many different sheets were printed for the Sweet Caporal 350-30 print run. It wouldn't matter now whether they have a sheet number or not.

Thanks Luke and Jantz,

It could help determine how many sheets this back plate was used on.
Personally I think there were several back plates used For each back, I
think they were also printed in some of the larger facilities owned by ALC
and not just their main facility in NYC but that's just my opinion.

[atx840]

The T207 variant thread reminded me of this card I picked up at the 2013 National. Possibly a left edge card as there are a few other examples out there.

[Luke]

I'm trying to figure out the value of these cards. Does anyone have any sales data for these? Posting here or a PM would be most appreciated. Thanks!

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by t206hound

Here's the updated list; as pointed out earlier, all in print group 1.

• Ames (port)
• Beaumont
• Clarke (port)
• Cobb (bat on)
• Durham
• Gilbert
• Hemphill
• Johnson (port)
• Jones, Fielder (port)
• Keeler (with bat)
• Killian (pitching)
• Mathewson (port)
• Merkle (port)
• Overall (port)
• Spade
• Steinfeldt (port)
• Tannehill ("L" on front-Chi.)
• Wagner (bat left)

Here's another print group 1 subject to add to the list.

[Charlie Faust III]

So I take it that one possible theory is that if this factory 30 anom sat at the bottom border of the 9th card in; there was a horizontal row of 17 cards, right?

Secondly, if Dooin is the most recent factory 30 anom found, that would make a total of 19 so far.

Does this mean that in Print Group 1 (which had 159 subjects) with some subjects printed dupes and trips; had at least 19 sheets printed??

Take care Charlie

[steve B]

Well, that's not a question that can have a simple yes/no answer.

It's possible the number was in more than one spot on a sheet.
It's also possible the sheets were more than 17 cards wide.
It's possible that some sheets did not have a factory number in the margin.
The art was changed between the 150 and 350 series, making things more involved


Add to that a few more possibilities like complex sheet layouts and the only answer that works is that 19 subjects show a marginal factory number Indicating a possible 19 different sheets.
Of course the 350 series also had art/plate modifications during the overall print run, many cards have differences that indicate at least two or three different printings. (And there may be differences between backs)

Steve B

[Pat R]

Came across this McGraw to add to the list which I believe makes twenty
different subjects found with a Factory #30 so far.

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Came across this McGraw to add to the list which I believe makes twenty
different subjects found with a Factory #30 so far.

That is a nice looking card.

[Jantz]

Good eye Pat!

Thank you for sharing the McGraw.

[t206hound]

Here's the updated list of twenty; as pointed out earlier, all in print group 1.

• Ames (port)
• Beaumont
• Clarke (port)
• Cobb (bat on)
• Dooin
• Durham
• Gilbert
• Hemphill
• Johnson (port)
• Jones, Fielder (port)
• Keeler (with bat)
• Killian (pitching)
• Mathewson (port)
• McGraw (port no cap)
• Merkle (port)
• Overall (port)
• Spade
• Steinfeldt (port)
• Tannehill ("L" on front-Chi.)
• Wagner (bat left)

[Pat R]

Here's an interesting one, still print group 1 but......
Dahlen Fact #30.jpg

[Thromdog]

And a Seymour batting sold last week.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/182304785473

[t206hound]

Here's the updated list of twenty-two;

• Ames (port)
• Beaumont
• Clarke (port)
• Cobb (bat on)
  
• Dahlen (Brooklyn)
• Dooin
• Durham
• Gilbert
• Hemphill
• Johnson (port)
• Jones, Fielder (port)
• Keeler (with bat)
• Killian (pitching)
• Mathewson (port)
• McGraw (port no cap)
• Merkle (port)
• Overall (port)
  
• Seymour (batting)
• Spade
• Steinfeldt (port)
• Tannehill ("L" on front-Chi.)
• Wagner (bat left)

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by t206hound

Here's the updated list of twenty-two;

• Ames (port)
• Beaumont
• Clarke (port)
• Cobb (bat on)
  
• Dahlen (Brooklyn)
• Dooin
• Durham
• Gilbert
• Hemphill
• Johnson (port)
• Jones, Fielder (port)
• Keeler (with bat)
• Killian (pitching)
• Mathewson (port)
• McGraw (port no cap)
• Merkle (port)
• Overall (port)
  
• Seymour (batting)
• Spade
• Steinfeldt (port)
• Tannehill ("L" on front-Chi.)
• Wagner (bat left)

Thank You for keeping track of these Erick.

[Gradedcardman]

Eric,
Great digging. Any list of the factory 25 sheet number known cards ?

[Maculay1979]

I just recently acquired the Dahlen without realizing what the mark at the bottom was.

[Sean]

And this one is a Dahlen, Boston. The previous Dahlen is a Brooklyn.

[Maculay1979]

Mine was actually the Brooklyn. Grabbed the wrong pic

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Maculay1979

I just recently acquired the Dahlen without realizing what the mark at the bottom was.

Nice Card, congratulations on the new acquisition.

Patrick

[Gradedcardman]

I don't see the Rhoades on the list...

[Maculay1979]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Nice Card, congratulations on the new acquisition.

Patrick

Thanks. I was excited to get a nicely centered Dahlen Brooklyn but when I saw the mark I knew something was up. Pretty happy I was able to land it.

[Jobu]

Added another one to the list, now at 23:

1. Ames (port)
2. Beaumont
3. Clarke (port)
4. Cobb (bat on)
5. Dahlen (Brooklyn)
6. Dooin
7. Durham
8. Gilbert
9. Hemphill
10. Johnson (port)
11. Jones, Fielder (port)
12. Keeler (with bat)
13. Killian (pitching)
14. Mathewson (port)
15. McGraw (port no cap)
16. Merkle (port)
17. Overall (port)
18. Seymour (batting)
19. Spade
20. Steinfeldt (port)
21. STOVALL
22. Tannehill ("L" on front-Chi.)
23. Wagner (bat left)

[/LIST]

[brianp-beme]

The revival of this thread reminded me that I have a SC150 Owen with a mystery red mark on back bottom...is it a factory number?

Brian

[brianp-beme]

Close up view of back bottom.

Brian

[Jobu]

Hey Brian

I don't think that is a sheet number, it is either stray ink or a later addition to the card.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Jobu

Hey Brian

I don't think that is a sheet number, it is either stray ink or a later addition to the card.

I was trying to figure out the orientation or how it could be a part of a number. The red appears to be the original printed ink...so who knows what in the fadoodle it is. Thanks for taking a look.

Brian

[Jobu]

The color does look pretty close. I have seen card with ink splatters on the back, so perhaps it is one of those. It is in the wrong spot and is the wrong shape to be a sheet number. Your mission is now to find another Owen with the same splash.

[Luke]

Looks like I have a 24th to add to the list:

[Pat R]

Nice find Luke thanks for posting the Shipke, it actually makes 25 total.
I just realized the J.J Clarke I posted earlier in this thread isn't on
the updated list.

Clarke J.J. Factory 30.jpg
Clarke J.J. Factory 30 Back 1200dpi.jpg

[t206kid]

This is mine...big factory number along the right border.

[Gradedcardman]

If anyone is looking to some of these to their collection please PM me. I have a few.

[t206kid]