New Buck Ewing cabinet card, provenance needed?

[Detroit58]

You want to discuss the Ewing cards or continue the character assasination?

[Detroit58]

Can we discuss the Ewing cards or would you like to proceed on the character assassination?

[sb1]

Having scanned the entire thread of the images you supplied with their purported match, you don't have any that match.

No provenance needed, no photo match needed, no ears, no nothing, just decades of looking at and handling the real images of these players both in and out of uniform.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Detroit58

Thus is what this forum is about? Character assassination? I came here with some honest stuff and honest questions? That’s how you come at me? This stuff is on record forever. I don’t claim to be perfect, but I stand by my stuff and most of all my word. I learn quick what most of your words are worth. There is something toxic about this place.

The only thing honest here is the people calling out your false claims. Good luck selling this cabinet of a random guy for HOF Baseball prices

[Detroit58]

Just asking for the reasons why people are saying what they are. It’s been mostly just some people talking at me. Is it safe to say it is debatable at the very least these are Ewing? Don’t see where that invites name calling and crudeness. It’s obvious something else is at play. To touch back on that I am a man of my word, I made a offer to your King Kahoona awhile back and it still stands. I’m sure it don’t mean much to him, but it stands. You can still go on being my nemesis either way

[D. Bergin]

This is what happens when Q starts collecting sports memorabilia.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

What we can tell from the two photos and the extent of the similarity…

They are both Human
They both have Ears
They are both likely Male

…that is about it.

Rhett, you missed something - they appear to have eyes and a nose. I just wrote a testimonial in another thread about how observant and keen our board members are when it comes to these things, and now this...

[Detroit58]

Which player is the King Kahoona partial to? Lip Pike I think? I got 5. We can kick around see which one the peanut gallery agrees most on and it’s yours. I don’t hold grudges and I do apologize again. I thanked you from the start and I still thank you today. I have come a long way since we last talked. I think you can see that. Let me know who you looking for Kahoona. You did teach me a thing or 2 so I think I got some stuff ip your alley. You can still hate my guts. I do understand gratitude

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Detroit58

Thus is what this forum is about? Character assassination? I came here with some honest stuff and honest questions? That’s how you come at me? This stuff is on record forever. I don’t claim to be perfect, but I stand by my stuff and most of all my word. I learn quick what most of your words are worth. There is something toxic about this place.

Nope, this place is not about character assassination. This board probably has the most knowledgeable group of virtually assembled members than ANY OTHER community in the world when it comes to baseball collectibles and cards.

It's possible, probably highly likely, that many board members are so tired of this hobby being littered with crap and when posts start showing up about highly "suspect" collectibles, there tends to be this type of reaction, especially when the poster is relatively new with so few posts.

Hang in there - you can learn a lot from this cast of personalities. Don't take things so personally. Wouldn't you rather sell something that is truly legitimate rather than a 95% possible match and then find the person that bought something like this wants a refund because the fall from the turnip truck woke them up.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

This is what happens when Q starts collecting sports memorabilia.

I got a good laugh at this one

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by detroit58

thus is what this forum is about? Character assassination? I came here with some honest stuff and honest questions? That’s how you come at me? This stuff is on record forever. I don’t claim to be perfect, but i stand by my stuff and most of all my word. I learn quick what most of your words are worth. There is something toxic about this place.

dbad!!!!!

[bigfanNY]

I am not an expert but like many here I have handled thousands of late 1880's baseball cards. Including the LC OJ proofs back in the day when a simple catalog request bought out a cart full of Boxes. So lots of cards over lots of years.
Here on Net54 You were offered for free, opinions by collectors of early CDV's and Cabinets. Folks who spend time and Money learning what to look for and what to avoid. And when you dont like there opinion you become antagonistic. You demand to know each and every persons process for forming their opinions. Demanding they accept facial recognition software that is known to have a long list of faults especially when comparing still photos. But I will do my best to help you progress in this area.
First, I myself was quite impressed by the Doctors analysis of the faces in question. I myself use some of the basic techniques he notes. But he as Dr. Gave me a number of new facial markers that can only help with still photo analysis. If you feel that a computer is best at facial recognition then I would make sure all the comparisons he noted were run by whatever program you use as well. I dont feel that the free facial recognition apps on the web dive deep enough to provide accurate results. So I suggest training your eyes.
Like Doug I also have found that the exercise of comparing and identifying Dam dolls can be helpful in sharpening the eye for this type of analysis. I would buy a case of 50 dolls ( All supposedly identical) and then identify all the differances. Cataloging hair legnth, how believable their smirk is, size and shape of belly button, toes ( Toes is where I struck gold..lots of differences in toes). TypicallyI would spend 15 to 20 minutes to catalog each doll the another 10 minutes or so in comparisonto its mates. I would generally spend a full weekend on one case of Fifty. If you take this up I would be happy to trade notes or offer any help I can. I know it has helped me and feel certin it will help you, as you learn the nuances of comparing still photography. I know this may sound like a basic step and it is that as well as time consuming. But given that your current techniques leed you to conclude that your posted photo is in fact Buck Ewing I believe it can only Help.
J.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Detroit58

Which player is the King Kahoona partial to? Lip Pike I think? I got 5. We can kick around see which one the peanut gallery agrees most on and it’s yours. I don’t hold grudges and I do apologize again. I thanked you from the start and I still thank you today. I have come a long way since we last talked. I think you can see that. Let me know who you looking for Kahoona. You did teach me a thing or 2 so I think I got some stuff ip your alley. You can still hate my guts. I do understand gratitude

You need to stop collecting photos. Seriously, you need to stop.

Some people are very good at photo recognition. Some people are terrible at it.

You are worse than terrible at this.

You claim to have 5 Lipman Pike photos from where? Where is the provenance for any of the photos?

Seriously, stop collecting photos!

You came on here to hear what you wanted to hear. You didn’t and are now angry. It is hard to hear the truth but none of your photos are what you claim them to be and deep down inside you know it is true. You are at best incredibly naive and ignorant and at worse an outright fraudster.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

OK I'll bite . I usually don't get involved in this sort of thing . I basically post on the autograph side but here I go .
I feel it is not Buck Ewing for the following anatomical reasons (I am a dentist with a practice concentrated on implant restorations and cosmetics ) so here I go :

1.The Helix of the ear in the left photo is compressed close to the scalp on the right in the Buck photo the Helix protrudes away from the scalp.
2.On the left photo the Antihelix is larger than the Antihelix in the Buck photo
3.On the left photo the External Auditory Meatus is larger in diameter and rises higher in the left photo than in the Buck photo
4.The Tragus in the left photo is lower and more pointed than in Buck's photo
5.The Lobe in the left photo is not attached ( it's called free in some terminology ) to the face / posterior cheek area above the TMJ area with a clearly defined separation between the face and ear lobe and this face / ear lobe area while in Buck's photo the same area appears attached lower with little or no separation between the face / jaw and ear lobe . This is a genetic trait passed from parents to offspring.
6.The angle of emergence of the ear from the head on the left photo is less with a farther back position than in the Buck photo
7. The distance from the head to the helix of the ear and from the head to the lobe is greater in Buck's photo than in the photo on the left
8. Lastly the overall gross ear position in the photo on the left appears higher in relation to the mandibular ( lower ) jaw angle /line than in Buck' photo .
Also remember the eyes remain the same size from birth to death and the basic socket form doesn't change during our life either , it may wrinkle but the shape remains the same unless you get an eyelid tuck
.
I say it's not Buck Ewing and I've been looking at and studying baseball for over 50 years.

So there's my facial analysis from looking at faces for years . If wrong I will apologize .

This is quite informative. Thank you for sharing your insight.

[bigfanNY]

Thank You Eric. When I read a thread like this and see a collector has strayed so far. I feel it is up to us to set them on a propper course.

[steve B]

I know some rudiments to facial recognition, but it takes time, and I'm not wasting that on things that are obvious. The Cy Young images have one glaring difference that makes going further pointless. If you can't spot it you're either not cut out for this, or are deliberately misrepresenting things.

I haven't heard of Amazon doing facial recognition software, which seems to be what you use. If they do, I would expect it's experimental, or intended to locate similar products, not identify people precisely.
The "screenshots" of that recognition software were incredibly unconvincing. They look like something poorly cobbled together in Paint.

To use a set of standards,
You say it's your work. Do you work in FR or a related field?
If so, exactly what are you using to do those comparisons? What software? Or some old fashioned manual technique like I'd use. (And based on my drafting training.)
What is your methodology? And is it a standard accepted method with consistently repeatable results? Or some new thing you've come up with on your own.

In a different way of looking at it.
I've collected a variety of stuff for over 40 years. I've looked at literally thousands of antique images, maybe into the 5 figures, who keeps count. In all that time I've seen a handful of baseball images, nearly all of them amateur players in uniform. Even pictures of people at work - termed occupationals by the old photo people- aren't at all common. Since 1977 I've gotten exactly one very odd one that I put in the "maybe but probably not" category

So yeah, I have my doubts about someone finding several images of baseball figures in street clothes in a relatively short time without some rational explanation like "I bought a box of photos from a players family member"

[gabrinus]

2 Buck Ewings...Jerry

[the-illini]

A new listing! His most significant discovery yet...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13430149193...4AAOSw5bljWek9

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by the-illini

A new listing! His most significant discovery yet...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13430149193...4AAOSw5bljWek9

LOL, Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder could SEE those are not the same people.

[D. Bergin]

I understand if you click your heels three times and think to yourself over and over again "History of ownership, history of ownership, history of ownership, history of ownership, history of ownership, history of owne................", you'll wake up in a cornfield in Kansas with Ray Liotta wiping your brow, smiling lovingly into your eyes...and saying "You should have gone to Iowa, stupid!"

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

You need to stop collecting photos. Seriously, you need to stop.

Some people are very good at photo recognition. Some people are terrible at it.

You are worse than terrible at this.

You claim to have 5 Lipman Pike photos from where? Where is the provenance for any of the photos?

Seriously, stop collecting photos!

You came on here to hear what you wanted to hear. You didn’t and are now angry. It is hard to hear the truth but none of your photos are what you claim them to be and deep down inside you know it is true. You are at best incredibly naive and ignorant and at worse an outright fraudster.

great advice

[Leon]

If you take down all of your ebay listings and put them in a scrapbook, then into your attic forever, then you will have come a long ways. Until then, you are still trying to commit fraud, to me. This Wagner photo is hilarious. It's just some guys picture next to an Honus picture.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13430149193...Bk9SR5iR056DYQ

Originally Posted by Detroit58

Which player is the King Kahoona partial to? Lip Pike I think? I got 5. We can kick around see which one the peanut gallery agrees most on and it’s yours. I don’t hold grudges and I do apologize again. I thanked you from the start and I still thank you today. I have come a long way since we last talked. I think you can see that. Let me know who you looking for Kahoona. You did teach me a thing or 2 so I think I got some stuff ip your alley. You can still hate my guts. I do understand gratitude

[Fred]

I can't believe you guys are falling for this...

This is all about the New Adam Sandler-Safdie Brothers movie will focus on high-end sports card collecting thread. Obviously, this guy is a writer for the movie and he's doing research on the the N54 community. Sheesh, didn't you guys see that coming?

Seriously - that Wagner rookie at $60K is just too much. I see the fleabay feedback rating and number of sales and something just doesn't add up. What other choices are there:

• The fleabay account was hijacked
  
• He wants to balance out the feedback (it's way too positive)
  
• He's trying to become a character in the Sandler movie
  
• Post your own theory
  

If the Wagner was a recent ad to the ebay postings, then this is just really sad on the sellers part. I can't believe fleabay allows stuff like this to occur. Perhaps they just don't have the horsepower to monitor this crap.

[scooter729]

Guys, back off - he made a simple typo. It's not Honus Wagner in that listing - check the hair and you'll see it's obviously Joe Tinker!

I expect the listing to be corrected shortly - and with this new match, the price should easily be over $100K!

[Baseball Rarities]

I have to assume that he is just having a good laugh at us at this point. Here are the comparison photos that he used for his Wagner image ebay.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Fred

I can't believe you guys are falling for this...

This is all about the New Adam Sandler-Safdie Brothers movie will focus on high-end sports card collecting thread. Obviously, this guy is a writer for the movie and he's doing research on the the N54 community. Sheesh, didn't you guys see that coming?

I should have realized this. I’m sure they’ll cast Brad Pitt to play me.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

I have to assume that he is just having a good laugh at us at this point. Here are the comparison photos that he used for his Wagner image ebay.

To me it is almost an identical match, but as can be seen in the photo on the left, Honus had hair growing on the outside of his ear, while the near identical Honus lookalike on the right has clean shaven ears, so obviously a photo match can be ruled out.

Now if only there were some computer facial recognition experts on here that could confirm that these photos are not both Honus...

Brian