T206 Wagner in Canada

[samosa4u]

I'm a member of a few Facebook card groups. Majority of posts made in these groups are just crap and a waste of my time, but sometimes I'll see an interesting post here and there. One of the things I love doing is talking to old-timers about how the hobby was like before I was born. I love hearing things like "in 1976, I was driving down there ... he punched him in the face ... I pulled it out of the pack ... I got twenty-five dollars for it ... my wife threw it in the fireplace ... blah, blah, blah". I guess this is because I'm a history-freak (and why I love vintage cards so much!) Anyways, so one interesting character started posting about how he was at Angelo Savelli's house in the early 1980s, and how he almost got his T206 Honus Wagner in a trade. However, Angelo later changed his mind and backed out. And then a couple of guys were like "yeah, he still has it ... very old man he is ... blah, blah, blah." I was like "huh? A Canadian owns a T206 Wagner? I had no clue! And who the heck is Angelo Savelli?" This post just reminded me that there are so many things about our hobby that I am not aware of (even in my own country!) At the same time, I was also very proud that a Canadian owns this card!

Does anyone here know the story behind Angelo's Wagner? When did he get it and from whom? How does it look like? Isn't a PR example worth like two million USD now? And are there any other Canadians who own this card?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

I'm a member of a few Facebook card groups. Majority of posts made in these groups are just crap and a waste of my time, but sometimes I'll see an interesting post here and there. One of the things I love doing is talking to old-timers about how the hobby was like before I was born. I love hearing things like "in 1976, I was driving down there ... he punched him in the face ... I pulled it out of the pack ... I got twenty-five dollars for it ... my wife threw it in the fireplace ... blah, blah, blah". I guess this is because I'm a history-freak (and why I love vintage cards so much!) Anyways, so one interesting character started posting about how he was at Angelo Savelli's house in the early 1980s, and how he almost got his T206 Honus Wagner in a trade. However, Angelo later changed his mind and backed out. And then a couple of guys were like "yeah, he still has it ... very old man he is ... blah, blah, blah." I was like "huh? A Canadian owns a T206 Wagner? I had no clue! And who the heck is Angelo Savelli?" This post just reminded me that there are so many things about our hobby that I am not aware of (even in my own country!) At the same time, I was also very proud that a Canadian owns this card!

Does anyone here know the story behind Angelo's Wagner? When did he get it and from whom? How does it look like? Isn't a PR example worth like two million USD now? And are there any other Canadians who own this card?

I am not sure of the answer to your main question but a PR Wags today, depending on aesthetics, would be in the 1.3M range......Pocket change for some, unfortunately not me.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

I'm a member of a few Facebook card groups. Majority of posts made in these groups are just crap and a waste of my time, but sometimes I'll see an interesting post here and there. One of the things I love doing is talking to old-timers about how the hobby was like before I was born. I love hearing things like "in 1976, I was driving down there ... he punched him in the face ... I pulled it out of the pack ... I got twenty-five dollars for it ... my wife threw it in the fireplace ... blah, blah, blah". I guess this is because I'm a history-freak (and why I love vintage cards so much!) Anyways, so one interesting character started posting about how he was at Angelo Savelli's house in the early 1980s, and how he almost got his T206 Honus Wagner in a trade. However, Angelo later changed his mind and backed out. And then a couple of guys were like "yeah, he still has it ... very old man he is ... blah, blah, blah." I was like "huh? A Canadian owns a T206 Wagner? I had no clue! And who the heck is Angelo Savelli?" This post just reminded me that there are so many things about our hobby that I am not aware of (even in my own country!) At the same time, I was also very proud that a Canadian owns this card!

Does anyone here know the story behind Angelo's Wagner? When did he get it and from whom? How does it look like? Isn't a PR example worth like two million USD now? And are there any other Canadians who own this card?

Very interesting story, I'd suspect that there's cases similar to this across America/Canada. Collections, with high value cards, not graded, that are held by people in there 70s, 80s, 90s, etc. While I can't speak for the Wagner, I have a working theory that in 10-20 years we'll see a lot of 52 Mantle's start hitting the market. All freshly graded, because of people passing away or getting too old and having no family to hand it down to.

[x2drich2000]

An extremely quick search came up with this info in the Orlando Sentinel from Feb 1988.

"WHAT A CARD. Angelo Savelli is a classic addict. To get his fix, the 50- year-old retired Canadian steel worker will pay almost any price, trade almost anything he owns. The genial man is not hooked on drugs. His unquenchable passion is bubble gum cards. For more than 40 years, Savelli has collected baseball cards; football cards, too. And hockey, boxing, wrestling, basketball and even lacrosse cards. He also holds precious old cards from the 1800s and some almost unfindable cards such as the 1909 Honus Wagner, worth as much as $50,000. Savelli's collection fills three rooms."

Link - Note: very ad heavy

[oldjudge]

Three auction houses have probably already started looking for him.

[Fred]

hahahaha... probably very true...

[clamendo]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Three auction houses have probably already started looking for him.

I know him very well and it’s long gone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[irv]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

An extremely quick search came up with this info in the Orlando Sentinel from Feb 1988.

"WHAT A CARD. Angelo Savelli is a classic addict. To get his fix, the 50- year-old retired Canadian steel worker will pay almost any price, trade almost anything he owns. The genial man is not hooked on drugs. His unquenchable passion is bubble gum cards. For more than 40 years, Savelli has collected baseball cards; football cards, too. And hockey, boxing, wrestling, basketball and even lacrosse cards. He also holds precious old cards from the 1800s and some almost unfindable cards such as the 1909 Honus Wagner, worth as much as $50,000. Savelli's collection fills three rooms."

Link - Note: very ad heavy

Another quick Google search got me these, Angelo Savelli, "The King of Cards"
Looks like he had/does have some nice stuff!
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...sclient=psy-ab

[paulmolive]

Sorry for reviving this old thread. Was just looking for information on Angelo. He once lived in the north end of Hamilton, Ontario and had a card shop briefly in the early 90s near his house. When I was 12 years old, I bought my first caramel and tobacco cards from him. An E95 Plank and a T206 Rube Waddell. Super nice fella. Fond memories indeed. Does anyone else in the Toronto area remember his shop? I think it was on Barton St. Can't believe he had a Wagner!

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by paulmolive

Sorry for reviving this old thread. Was just looking for information on Angelo. He once lived in the north end of Hamilton, Ontario and had a card shop briefly in the early 90s near his house. When I was 12 years old, I bought my first caramel and tobacco cards from him. An E95 Plank and a T206 Rube Waddell. Super nice fella. Fond memories indeed. Does anyone else in the Toronto area remember his shop? I think it was on Barton St. Can't believe he had a Wagner!

I never went to his shop, living in Western Canada, but I do recall reading many stories about him in the collector mags that came out in the late 80's / early 90's. He was a legend in the card game here. I recall he basically spent what he had on vintage cards. He told lots of stories on how his wife was patient, but frustrated with him. That is until he started moving some of his stuff.

A name from the past...

[clamendo]

Originally Posted by paulmolive

Sorry for reviving this old thread. Was just looking for information on Angelo. He once lived in the north end of Hamilton, Ontario and had a card shop briefly in the early 90s near his house. When I was 12 years old, I bought my first caramel and tobacco cards from him. An E95 Plank and a T206 Rube Waddell. Super nice fella. Fond memories indeed. Does anyone else in the Toronto area remember his shop? I think it was on Barton St. Can't believe he had a Wagner!

What do want to know and I’ll ask him?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[D. Bergin]

LOL, a throwaway joke turns into a slowburn pissing contest on Net54, a full year in the making.

Only in Americanada!

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Does anyone here know the story behind Angelo's Wagner? When did he get it and from whom? How does it look like?

Originally Posted by clamendo

It was sold years ago to an “American”Probably, when he sold off his baseball. I’m sure it was raw. Knowing Angelo it was probably in nice shape, he was focusing on high grade before it was fashionable.

Angelo Savelli bought his Honus Wagner card in the mid to late 1970's from a Hamilton coin and card dealer on the east side of James Street North near Barton Street East not far from the old CN train station. He sold the family car to raise the money for the purchase and his wife almost left him at that point!

In the late 1990's he told me that he'd compare his Honus Wagner (which he was keeping in a safety deposit box) to the one owned by Bruce McNall and Wayne Gretzky any time because the latter was trimmed. And it was!

Angie sold the Honus Wagner card together with the rest of his Baseball, Basketball and NFL cards to a big California dealer in 2000 or so. But he kept his Hockey, CFL and Wrestling cards.

Originally Posted by paulmolive

Was just looking for information on Angelo. He once lived in the north end of Hamilton, Ontario and had a card shop briefly in the early 90s near his house.... Does anyone else in the Toronto area remember his shop? I think it was on Barton St. Can't believe he had a Wagner!

Angie's "King of Cards" shop was on the south side of Barton Street East near Sherman Avenue North. As such it was just a few blocks northwest of Ivor Wynne Stadium where the Hamilton Tiger-Cats played. I visited his shop many times.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Angelo Savelli bought his Honus Wagner card in the mid to late 1970's from a Hamilton coin and card dealer on the east side of James Street North near Barton Street East not far from the old CN train station. He sold the family car to raise the money for the purchase and his wife almost left him at that point!

In the late 1990's he told me that he'd compare his Honus Wagner (which he was keeping in a safety deposit box) to the one owned by Bruce McNall and Wayne Gretzky any time because the latter was trimmed. And it was!

Angie sold the Honus Wagner card together with the rest of his Baseball, Basketball and NFL cards to a big California dealer in 2000 or so. But he kept his Hockey, CFL and Wrestling cards.



Angie's "King of Cards" shop was on the south side of Barton Street East near Sherman Avenue North. As such it was just a few blocks northwest of Ivor Wynne Stadium where the Hamilton Tiger-Cats played. I visited his shop many times.

Thanks for your post, fox.

He was definitely way ahead of his time. He not only went after all the "big cards," but he was diversifying as well. This is something smart collectors do today because you never know which area of the hobby is going to get hot. For example, basketball cards went insane during the pandemic and still remain expensive even to this day. Look how expensive the rookies of George Mikan, Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain are.

What do you remember about your time inside his store ?? What did you see in there ? Were there 1952 Topps Mantles lined up for $500 each ?? The Howe rookie (1951 Parkhurst) was probably a $10 card back then. Also, what were most people buying back then ?? What was considered "hot?"

[Leon]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Thanks for your post, fox.

He was definitely way ahead of his time. He not only went after all the "big cards," but he was diversifying as well. This is something smart collectors do today because you never know which area of the hobby is going to get hot. For example, basketball cards went insane during the pandemic and still remain expensive even to this day. Look how expensive the rookies of George Mikan, Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain are.

What do you remember about your time inside his store ?? What did you see in there ? Were there 1952 Topps Mantles lined up for $500 each ?? The Howe rookie (1951 Parkhurst) was probably a $10 card back then. Also, what were most people buying back then ?? What was considered "hot?"

Interesting thoughts. My main focus has never been what a cards future value will be. I have, obviously, tried to get my cards at the best deal I can, but future values haven't been what I have focused on. It's still more of "just collecting" for me. I buy and sell sometimes, but mainly, it's just collecting.
.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Leon

Interesting thoughts. My main focus has never been what a cards future value will be. I have, obviously, tried to get my cards at the best deal I can, but future values haven't been what I have focused on. It's still more of "just collecting" for me. I buy and sell sometimes, but mainly, it's just collecting.
.

They're both equally as important - the money and the collecting part. You need so much money in order to start a collection today and so we're "forced" to pay attention to the money side of it. Imagine spending thirty grand on some baseball cards and then a year later they end up being worth half that. It's gonna' hurt (even if you consider yourself only a collector).

Merry Christmas and thanks for running a great forum.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

] The Howe rookie (1951 Parkhurst) was probably a $10 card back then.

Not in the slightest. It had great value for the time, even then. Just as coveted as it is today. I'm Canadian and remember it well.

There was a store in my hometown that was famous for selling very bad fake signed cards. All with the same black Sharpie and all pathetic even to my grade school eyes. They had a Howe RC in one of those "iceberg" screw downs. This would have been around 1991. The asking price was $5K. I asked to see it. The jerk/forger begrudgingly "showed" it to me by lifting it from the shelf of the display case to the underside of the glass top. Gee, thanks. Between that move and the forgeries, I never went back. Thankfully, the place didn't last long. Scumbag.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Not in the slightest. It had great value for the time, even then. Just as coveted as it is today.

Are you talking about the late-80s here? Early-80s? 70s? I had some old-timers tell me how cheap it used to be. They also told me that Gretzky's father used to work for Bell and would give his customers a free 79/80 OPC rookie card of his son. He had a deck of them, I was told.

[maniac_73]

Please let’s not turn this into a Canada vs America thread. As a Canadian Collector I love my American collector friends


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by maniac_73

Please let’s not turn this into a Canada vs America thread. As a Canadian Collector I love my American collector friends


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

We love you too, especially your OPC baseball issues.

[samosa4u]

Ohhhh Caaannnaadddaaaa ...

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Ohhhh Caaannnaadddaaaa ...

Is that the elusive "Barbie Red Back?



Mike

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Ohhhh Caaannnaadddaaaa ...

[samosa4u]

Hahahahaha

[dealme]

"...but I'll leave it at that, as this could pose the biggest thread derailment ever if we went off on that particular tangent. Balticfox undoubtedly knows exactly what I'm talking about, as we're apparently from the same town. Small world."


Well…I went down that rabbit hole. Pretty disturbing stuff.

Mark


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[samosa4u]

This is an old thread that I started back in 2020. So, I don't mind you guys discussing this on here ... or just send me a PM and tell me what happened!

[todeen]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

This is an old thread that I started back in 2020. So, I don't mind you guys discussing this on here ... or just send me a PM and tell me what happened!

no, we are all interested in this rabbit hole!

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

[maniac_73]

Originally Posted by dealme

"...but I'll leave it at that, as this could pose the biggest thread derailment ever if we went off on that particular tangent. Balticfox undoubtedly knows exactly what I'm talking about, as we're apparently from the same town. Small world."


Well…I went down that rabbit hole. Pretty disturbing stuff.

Mark


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Im a transplanted oakvillian who went to Western in London and now lives in Cali. Im invested in this Rabbit hole lol

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by dealme

Well…I went down that rabbit hole. Pretty disturbing stuff.

Originally Posted by todeen

no, we are all interested in this rabbit hole!

That rabbit hole is chock full of memories for me. The first thing that drew my eye was the sign advertising Silverwood's cones, milk shakes and sundaes. Signs like this one were common outside London's variety stores when I was a kid:

(Not mine.)

Silverwood's was London's own mega dairy. Silverwood's horse drawn delivery carts and Divco trucks were a common sight on London's leafy streets providing home delivery of milk in glass bottles in the 1950's and 1960's:







My sister worked at the Silverwood ice cream plant on Bathurst Street a scant kilometre away from our house in the summer of 1963 and she brought a complete set of the SICLE Air Force cards home for me!



She also worked at Silverwood's in the summer of 1968(?) and I worked at the Silverwood's ice cream plant in the spring of 1972 after it had relocated to the southern edge of London just east of Wellington Road.

Silverwood's grew by acquisition to spread nationally and become Canada's largest dairy by the late 1960's.



John Labatt Limited's Ault Foods subsidiary acquired Silverwood's in 1984 and after several more corporate transactions/amalgamations even the Silverwood name brand had disappeared by the turn of the century.

I passed by the Stanley Variety hundreds of times growing up since it was on the route of the Ridout bus I used to take to my high school downtown from 1966 to 1970. But Stanley Street was the northern boundary of my elementary school district and the Stanley Variety was almost a kilometre away from my house. There was actually no reason for me to trek all the way to the Stanley Variety because every corner store carried the same bubble gum cards like these Hockey cards that I collected in grade two:





But Joe S. who was my age lived right across the street from the Stanley Variety with his mother and grandparents. His grandfather and my dad were both Lithuanian and fishing buddies. In fact in 1969 my father bought their 1961 Mercury Comet for our family (for me actually because I was the one who got a driver's licence). Joe and I therefore hung out sometimes when we were in grade school.

I still clearly remember the time Joe had bought a pair of black Jolly Roger flags at Canadian Tire for his bike. Spotting these his grandfather started berating him for the hideous banners he'd put on his bike. "Now is that nice?" were his exact words in Lithuanian. Joe's immediate defence was that I was going to do the same. And I certainly would have but I didn't have the money!

Just like my own father confiscated my T-shirt to use as a rag after I'd lovingly ironed a Brother Rat Fink transfer upon it:





Somehow the old guys had completely forgotten the desires that lurk within the hearts of young boys.

Joe used to constantly tout the coolness of his neighbourhood Stanley Variety, e.g. how that was where the best value in pea shooters could be found and how great the milk shakes were. I don't remember whether the Stanley Variety actually had a sit-down counter at the time.

But Joe and I actually didn't share too many interests. He collected neither cards nor comics and he didn't have any cool toys like an Eagle Hockey game, Lionel train set or Dinky Toys. I do need to give him credit though for being the runner up Duncan Spin Top champion in our corner of the city in 1963(?) and going on to the southwestern Ontario regional finals in Chatham!



So Joe was never among my very closest buddies.

Neither was he exactly a scholar. Nonetheless after some trouble in his teens, Joe straightened out and went on to win the Mr. London bodybuilding contest in the early 1980's! Being entrepreneurially inclined he now owns and operates his own gym in the northwest corner of London.

Those though are the pleasant memories. The rabbit hole goes deeper, much deeper and darker.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by balticfox

there was actually no reason for me to trek all the way to the stanley variety because every corner store carried the same bubble gum cards like these hockey cards that i collected in grade two:

Did you collect the Topps hockey cards from the previous year? The reason why I am asking you this is because card #66 is the famous Golden Jet rookie !



Because it was the last card in the set, it is often found in poor shape (first and last cards got handled the most). Furthermore, it was also on the bottom-right corner of the uncut sheet and was cut very poorly. Most ended up being either off-centered or miscut!!

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Did you collect the Topps hockey cards from the previous year?

The first cards I ever owned were actually four of the 1958-59 Topps Hockey cards which I gathered off the street one late February or early March day in 1959. The first three were Detroit Red Wings, but the last was a Chicago Blackhawk. When I saw that big Indian head on the red uniform, I knew that was my favourite team - even though I might have had trouble reading the team name at the time! I have every card but the Bobby Hull in my present day collection. Here are some shots:

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Because it was the last card in the set, it(Bobby Hull) is often found in poor shape (first and last cards got handled the most). Furthermore, it was also on the bottom-right corner of the uncut sheet and was cut very poorly. Most ended up being either off-centered or miscut!!

I bought a VG- one back in 1980 in an antique junk shop but traded it off just over 25 years ago because it wasn't up to my quality standards when it came to condition. I'm looking for one now that's wayyyy off center because I'm indifferent to centering and I'd like to get one for a semi-reasonable price. (I didn't care a whit about centering as a kid so why should I now?) But the card stock of these 1958-59 Topps Hockey often betrays yellowed borders and I still want a Hull that's as sharp and white as my other cards from this set. I'm not sure that the 8 you posted is white enough for my quality standards. I'd need to compare it side-by-side to my others.

[Balticfox]

Here anyway is a picture from a few years ago of old Ang in his den surrounded by his sports memorabilia:

[dealme]

I make no claims as to the accuracy of the source, but this is what I read after seeing it mentioned earlier in the thread:

https://crimeimmemorial.com/2022/12/...ntario-canada/

Mark


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Oh man! Don't read this at 1:30am right before bed like I did. Some scary stuff!

[samosa4u]

Very disturbing. Most of these killers would've been caught today though since there are cameras everywhere now !!

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by dealme

I make no claims as to the accuracy of the source, but this is what I read after seeing it mentioned earlier in the thread:

https://crimeimmemorial.com/2022/12/...ntario-canada/

So further down the rabbit hole....

London is neither a small town nor a mega city. Here are the population figures since 1961:

1961 - 169,569
1966 - 194,416
1971 - 223,222
1976 - 240,392
1981 - 254,280
1986 - 269,140
1991 - 311,620
1996 - 325,699
2001 - 336,539
2006 - 352,395
2011 - 366,151
2016 - 383,822
2021 - 422,324
2024 - 447,255(E)



So London does on the surface appear to be an idyllic city of ideal size (although its population has surged in the past ten years as it's been attracting retirees who are cashing out of Toronto).

But London has certainly had its dark side from the massacre of the Black Donnellys in Lucan just north of London in 1880 to Donald Oag who became Canada's most notorious convict in the 1970's to the unsolved murders referenced in the article. I can comment on two of the cases.

I have only a vague recollection of Jacqueline Dunleavy's murder in January 1968 though her name is still very familiar. I'm not sure the fact that she had just finished her shift at the Stanley Variety ever came to my attention. I was all about international events (e.g. Vietnam War) and national politics at the time and devoured the Time magazine to which we subscribed but paid scant attention to "inconsequential" local events. But the fact that I was completely familiar with the variety store as well as the neighbourhood now causes me to wince anew almost 57 years later. I can clearly picture the exact location in front of the Bear Alignment garage of the bus stop from which Jacqueline was abducted. So bad/sad.

But it's the reminder of Jackie English's murder that's most unsettling. She was a little darling. The picture in the article doesn't do her justice. Here's a better one:



You see in 1966-68 Jackie lived basically right across Euclid Avenue from two of my very best buddies, Phil and my card collecting partner Tony. Euclid Ave. was kid central at the time and the neighbourhood kids all hung out together. As a thirteen year old in 1967 she was vivacious, pretty as a picture, friendly and absolutely charming in every way. Even as a fifteen year old I had a crush on her. And she gave every indication of being sweet on me as well.

But did I do anything about it? Did I suggest we go to the Whistle Stop Drive-In just three blocks away for a foot long and a milkshake or sundae? Or to the Ace Restaurant for a hamburger and french fries with gravy? Or to the Hobby Nook for fish & chips? Or even taken her to Harvey's? Or invited her to come see a movie with me? Her family was really poor and any of those things would have been a real treat for her. I mean I would have been her knight in shining armour.

No. I did none of those things despite having the money (my father spoiled me because I was a good student plus I worked on a tobacco farm in August 1967 and earned a pile of money for a kid). I was socially awkward and completely clueless and inviting her to accompany me to a neat place for a treat didn't even occur to me at the time. When it came to girls/women, I needed lessons.

Then her family moved away early in 1968 (I think) and the next I heard of her was reading in the London Free Press about her lifeless body being found in Big Otter Creek in early October 1969. So I couldn't even bring myself to ask her out two years earlier and then some depraved beast snuffs out her young life. I mean why, and why Jackie? She'd been so vital, so spunky, so full of life.

And ever since then there's been the "What ifs?" Had I asked her out, had I even asked her to "Go with me" in the terminology of the day, we probably would have kept in touch after she'd moved to a different part of town. Even if we'd then drifted apart, her life would have been somewhat changed and she might not have ended up working at the diner in the Metropolitan Store (like a Woolco or a Kmart) at the Treasure Island Plaza. I really can't imagine a much worse location for her to have been working. Treasure Island Plaza was in an otherwise desolate location nearly a mile south of London's city boundary. So she had to embark on a bleak fifteen minute walk on cold evenings just to get to a bus stop and wait for a bus that might come around every hour.

Here's her older sister Anne commemorating the fiftieth anniversary of Jackie's death on the Wellington Street overpass in 2019:



Here's a good article on Anne's memories:

Quest to Find and Shame - Toronto Star

Anne was already an absolute knockout at the age of fourteen in 1967 and I thought she was completely out of my league at the time.

So why was Jackie working in that gods' forsaken location? There were a couple of Metropolitan stores right downtown. Like I say, Jackie was pretty, sprightly and charming. Anybody would have hired her for a waitressing or a sales clerk job.

So sad. And so many "What ifs".

Jackie's mother and younger brother Fred would move back into my immediate neighbourhood in 1970(?). Fred had joined the chess club at South Secondary School and would visit me regularly because I was the only one he knew outside his club that would give him a challenge. All of us "kids" also liked to play blackjack in our dining and living room because by then I had the house to myself most of the time. (Since this is a Baseball card forum I guess I should mention that Fred was was a big San Francisco Giants and Willie Mays fan.) By the late 1970's he'd grown up to be a strong, good looking young man.

The last time I ran into Anne was circa 1971-72 when she worked at a booth inside one of the buildings at the Western Fair selling tacos. That was the first time I ever tasted "Mexican" food and they were really good. Anne though was wearing a Hawaiian flower garland over a cleavage featuring bikini top and looked over-the-top gorgeous. She was a young goddess and could easily have worked as one of the bunny girl waitresses downtown at the Latin Quarter where Jackie had another job helping out in the kitchen. Yes, she recognized me from Euclid Ave and gave me a big smile. But did I do anything about it? No....

So many memories ranging from the fond to the tragic down that rabbit hole.

[Balticfox]

Here's a good video from Youtube on the Jackie English case: