So much for REA disclosure on T206s...

[CMIZ5290]

The Joss PSA 8 is already over $5K with the juice. The card was announced with possible trim, which simply means it does have a trim. Why in the hell would people proceed with bids that equal a normal PSA 8 Joss with no trims??? I simply dont get it...

[HRBAKER]

bc it has an "8" on it

[barrysloate]

Exactly. People buy the label.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Exactly. People buy the label.

I hear you Barry, but it makes no sense to me. If a card is announced as a problem at major auction, you would think it should sell at a huge discount....Not the case...

[ooo-ribay]

I think you card guys are out of your minds in the first place.

[Big Dave]

Just like on the autograph side, people buy the label.

[barrysloate]

REA cites the trim, but once it passes to the next owner the card stands by what the label says. The next owner may never disclose that information.

[Bpm0014]

The 3 trimmed "AUTHENTIC" Cobbs are over $3000...

[MVSNYC]

Not so sure Joss has a trimmed top. look at it from back, has a slight diamond shape (from factory), maybe.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Not so sure Joss has a trimmed top. look at it from back, has a slight diamond shape (from factory), maybe.

Even if it doesn't, how can it get a grade of 8 with that centering???

[CMIZ5290]

I love PSA more than anyone, but this card has to be trimmed...

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I love PSA more than anyone, but this card has to be trimmed...

Where this "love" comes from i have no idea kevin?

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Where this "love" comes from i have no idea kevin?

Wondering when you would chime in....Resale value maybe???

[ullmandds]

i tried really hard to bite my lip!!!!! If resale is all u care about...Well then I understand your feelings.

[HRBAKER]

.....and if the "GPA" is all someone worries about, what does it matter if it's trimmed?

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

i tried really hard to bite my lip!!!!! If resale is all u care about...Well then I understand your feelings.

good thing you didn't stick your tongue to a flagpole....

[egbeachley]

If someone were to break open the slab belonging to another owner, but gave them $50 for regrading, and the card comes back as Authentic, has a crime taken place?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Not so sure Joss has a trimmed top. look at it from back, has a slight diamond shape (from factory), maybe.

I am with you. I think it might not be trimmed and is undervalued.

[hshrimps]

I can tell u some people don't read the auction description before they place a bid...... they just read the auction title...... I am one of them.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by Leon

I am with you. I think it might not be trimmed and is undervalued.

I do Always like to remain optimistic on pieces such as this one...
However, I think Rob & Brian got this one right.
I don't like the "Bat ears" one old Eddie.
& The 1st Generation Label from PSA doesn't help my humble opinion either...

But an *8 is an *8... ain't it? ;-)

[wonkaticket]

Kevin this isn't one of those cards you slam publicly on here for being trimmed, while you try to buy it at the same time is it?

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ighlight=Kevin

[BigTrainComing]

Great discussion. 2 thoughts on trimmed cards: 1) knowing the t206 Joss is trimmed would remove any/all desire to own card. 2) would always rather have a card with an assigned number grade than an "authentic" card.

additional thought- My dad and I's favorite cards are t205 gold border, so we are constantly looking at cards from this set- We look at eye appeal above all else- some wear or tobacco staining (esp. on back) only adds to the character of cards, which after all, are 100+ years old.

Finally, a sentiment about graded cards that I love- Buy the Card, not the Holder.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Kevin this isn't one of those cards you slam publicly on here for being trimmed, while you try to buy it at the same time is it?

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ighlight=Kevin

That's interesting. I would be interested in knowing if Kevin (hi Kevin) was bidding, and if so, was he bidding aggressively? Saying something sucks and then bidding? Nah, that would never happen....

Kevin-?

[ullmandds]

I just couldn't understand why...if Kevin were doing such a thing...can someone please explain this to me????

I simply don't get it?

BTW...I kiss my stockpile of PSA vouchers before I go to bed each and every night.

[ALR-bishop]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I think you card guys are out of your minds in the first place.

How much more observable evidence do you require ?

[steve B]

Ah, something that belongs in the "psychology of bidding " thread.

Basically, people generally are followers. If someone with an image of authority says a card is trimmed many people will see the trimming.

In a small pool of collectors - which the market for that card is- if some of them go with the flow and decide it's trimmed that reduces competition, and that sometimes reduces the price.

I'm ABSOLUTELY NOT saying anyone here is or isn't doing that.

In the small area of collecting racing bikes, one of the local collectors was doing just that, a particularly interesting bike would turn up on Ebay and he'd point out the "wrong" parts, say he felt it was repainted, pretty much anything to run it down. Then he'd often be the high bidder . He's done pretty well selling them after a few years, because they were and are actually just fine.

The lesson, which I think many here learned a long time ago is to learn a lot and make your own decisions regardless of someone elses opinion Including TPG.

Steve B

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I just couldn't understand why...if Kevin were doing such a thing...can someone please explain this to me????

I simply don't get it?

BTW...I kiss my stockpile of PSA vouchers before I go to bed each and every night.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Leon

That's interesting. I would be interested in knowing if Kevin (hi Kevin) was bidding, and if so, was he bidding aggressively? Saying something sucks and then bidding? Nah, that would never happen....

Kevin-?

I agree Leon that couldn't happen not today....meantime Kevin?

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by steve B

Ah, something that belongs in the "psychology of bidding " thread.

Basically, people generally are followers. If someone with an image of authority says a card is trimmed many people will see the trimming.

In a small pool of collectors - which the market for that card is- if some of them go with the flow and decide it's trimmed that reduces competition, and that sometimes reduces the price.

I'm ABSOLUTELY NOT saying anyone here is or isn't doing that.

In the small area of collecting racing bikes, one of the local collectors was doing just that, a particularly interesting bike would turn up on Ebay and he'd point out the "wrong" parts, say he felt it was repainted, pretty much anything to run it down. Then he'd often be the high bidder . He's done pretty well selling them after a few years, because they were and are actually just fine.

The lesson, which I think many here learned a long time ago is to learn a lot and make your own decisions regardless of someone elses opinion Including TPG.

Steve B

Steve interesting thoughts above only one problem I can see who here sees Kevin as someone with an image of authority?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

That's interesting. I would be interested in knowing if Kevin (hi Kevin) was bidding, and if so, was he bidding aggressively? Saying something sucks and then bidding? Nah, that would never happen....

Kevin-?

The ol' Hal Lewis playbook on the Toleteros Josh Gibson.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

I agree Leon that couldn't happen not today....meantime Kevin?

You know what silence usually means?

[Peter_Spaeth]

I thought silence was golden.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I thought silence was golden.

That applies to kids in the backseat. Not card collectors saying how bad something is, to keep away other bidders, all the while bidding on it. I am not saying this is what happened but the silence makes me think it.

Kevin- did you bid on the card you were putting down publicly?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Say it ain't so!!

[ullmandds]

I am picturing Kevin sitting in a chair... With his fingers in his ears... Shaking his head back-and-forth saying Lala Lala Lala Lala Lala...as if to not hear any of this.

[Sean1125]

Kevin didn't win the card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

Kevin didn't win the card.

Yes but did he bid on it? That's the issue here.

[Runscott]

I'm with the guys who think this is not trimmed; however, it makes no sense that REA would mention trimming unless they could see clear evidence.

What I'm waiting for: REA to sell an autograph with a JSA letter, and say that they think it might be a fake.

The above makes me think that they feel comfortable with someone on staff giving opinions on cards and overriding PSA, but don't have the same in-house expertise on autographs. I think all AH's should have some expertise on autographs, especially when they are depending on JSA or PSA.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yes but did he bid on it? That's the issue here.

I would bet good money the answer is yes and most likely not an opening bid either. Most of the time when Kevin takes the time to blast a card with its own thread its a card he's tried to buy...nothing new. Funny? Yes..new not so much.

[glchen]

One thing to note on the PSA cards with a number grade, theoretically PSA has a money back guarantee, so if the trim seems too obvious, the buyer could always try to send the card back to PSA and try to get the price he paid to REA back from PSA.

[E93]

Scott,
I think there is a difference. A card still has value, even if it is trimmed. An autograph does not if it is fake.
JimB

Originally Posted by Runscott

I'm with the guys who think this is not trimmed; however, it makes no sense that REA would mention trimming unless they could see clear evidence.

What I'm waiting for: REA to sell an autograph with a JSA letter, and say that they think it might be a fake.

The above makes me think that they feel comfortable with someone on staff giving opinions on cards and overriding PSA, but don't have the same in-house expertise on autographs. I think all AH's should have some expertise on autographs, especially when they are depending on JSA or PSA.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

I would bet good money the answer is yes and most likely not an opening bid either. Most of the time when Kevin takes the time to blast a card with its own thread its a card he's tried to buy...nothing new. Funny? Yes..new not so much.

You know what, the fact that this is driving you absolutely nuts gives me incredible satisfaction. Now ladies and gentlemen, sit back and enjoy the vast array of cartoons, past emails, ancient old Net54 threads, and everything else this guy has hoarded away in his computer. I wonder if you really know how silly you look sometimes when you resort to those tactics, shows pretty poor form if you ask me. There is no disputing the fact that I can't stand you, and vice versa, but why don't you take it off the board? There is no taking the high road with someone like you, I guess you have plenty of idle time to kill....P.S.- I believe if I was going to spend $5500 plus, I would settle for a centered and non trimmed Joss....

[japhi]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

You know what, the fact that this is driving you absolutely nuts gives me incredible satisfaction. Now ladies and gentlemen, sit back and enjoy the vast array of cartoons, past emails, ancient old Net54 threads, and everything else this guy has hoarded away in his computer. I wonder if you really know how silly you look sometimes when you resort to those tactics, shows pretty poor form if you ask me. There is no disputing the fact that I can't stand you, and vice versa, but why don't you take it off the board? There is no taking the high road with someone like you, I guess you have plenty of idle time to kill....P.S.- I believe if I was going to spend $5500 plus, I would settle for a centered and non trimmed Joss....

I don't have a horse in this race, why not answer Leon's question...."did you bid on this card". Your last post looks like a pretty big deflection.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

You know what, the fact that this is driving you absolutely nuts gives me incredible satisfaction. Now ladies and gentlemen, sit back and enjoy the vast array of cartoons, past emails, ancient old Net54 threads, and everything else this guy has hoarded away in his computer. I wonder if you really know how silly you look sometimes when you resort to those tactics, shows pretty poor form if you ask me. There is no disputing the fact that I can't stand you, and vice versa, but why don't you take it off the board? There is no taking the high road with someone like you, I guess you have plenty of idle time to kill....P.S.- I believe if I was going to spend $5500 plus, I would settle for a centered and non trimmed Joss....

Sorry you didn’t win the Joss card Kevin there’s always next time.

[wonkaticket]

Kevin all joking and chop busting aside and yes I know were not fans of each other etc. If in fact I falsely accused you of bashing and bidding which you have done prior. I extend the following to you in terms of a reconciliation. If you’re ok with contacting someone from REA and telling them to reach out to Leon confirming I was wrong and that you didn’t bid on the card. I will issue you a humble public apology and donate a $500 to a charity of your choice.

Cheers,

John

[Peter_Spaeth]

That sounds like a lawyer who asks a question only because he knows the answer.

[wonkaticket]

Pete, not a 100% sure but in this situation happy to play the averages I'm pretty sure my $500 is safe given the track record. I'm sort of with Leon on this if anyone asked if I bid on something I could easily just say yes or no....not a hard question to answer.

However with that said I'm also very happy and willing to pony up and admit I was wrong on my guess should that need to be done.

The core of the issue. Many past and present members have tried this tactic slam a card, seller or item while bidding in hopes of driving away folks nothing new. Oddly enough it doesn't work in fact seems to draw more attention to the items. I think its a lame tactic and isn't in good form since we are on the topic of good form. In a hobby filled with fraud and doubt on certain items why create more doubt and issues with a seller or item that aren't really there or you're not sure of? Just so you can win an item? Then what when you get the item it's now all good no issues? Just seems silly.

Cheers,

John

[Rich Klein]

Please fill me in on this one:

"The ol' Hal Lewis playbook on the Toleteros Josh Gibson"

Thanks!
Rich

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

You know what, the fact that this is driving you absolutely nuts gives me incredible satisfaction. Now ladies and gentlemen, sit back and enjoy the vast array of cartoons, past emails, ancient old Net54 threads, and everything else this guy has hoarded away in his computer. I wonder if you really know how silly you look sometimes when you resort to those tactics, shows pretty poor form if you ask me. There is no disputing the fact that I can't stand you, and vice versa, but why don't you take it off the board? There is no taking the high road with someone like you, I guess you have plenty of idle time to kill....P.S.- I believe if I was going to spend $5500 plus, I would settle for a centered and non trimmed Joss....

Um, with the search engines it's pretty easy to find just about anything on Net 54. If you said that in a post in the past, your post can be easily found and some people tend to have long memories. And the question is simple, did you make an offer on the card back in the day before it was consigned to REA. That is a yes or no answer. You can yell all you want but your history is out there.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Please fill me in on this one:

"The ol' Hal Lewis playbook on the Toleteros Josh Gibson"

Thanks!
Rich

Hal Lewis trashing the card as being a tribute card and not a true rookie while one of the first ones to surface was up for auction; with the purpose of keeping the price down so he could win it.

[Rich Klein]

Is there a thread you can llink to on the Hal Lewis issue