Dmitri Young got some PSA love...

[glynparson]

under psa guidelines a 10 can have a flaw
10 does not equal flawless, you are wrong if you think this

[travrosty]

but how can you have a ragged edge on a 54 topps hank aaron and have it be a 10?

even though all those cards have ragged edges, i thought a 10 would have to have straight edges, even though none of those would qualify for a 10, then so what? does there have to be a 10? like he said there is no ten valenzuela, or nolan ryan. how can a ragged edge be a ten, the same for the OPC gretzky 10 that sold for 90,000 dollars, had chipping on the edges. how can that be?

that's why it is so subjective on psa's part and so open to their whim of the day. and that's why it stinks.

[packs]

That's the way the card was produced. There is no flaw. That's why it can be a 10.

[Clutch-Hitter]

I don't think anything is entirely flawless and each "thing" would have to be defined in its own way. The three companies were careful to qualify flawless with "virtually" or something similar. But without reading too deep into it, a ten seems to carry an implication of flawlessness. Now I don't even know what I'm talking about. Just think a ten carries too much value...

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by packs

That's the way the card was produced. There is no flaw. That's why it can be a 10.

Couldn't the same be said for an off-center or mis-cut card? I'd pay more for a card that does not have a rough cut vs one that did all other variables being equal.

[packs]

The rough cut effects a sizeable portion of the overall production of cards, at least from my observations. I think it's a different situation than an off center card.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by packs

The rough cut effects a sizeable portion of the overall production of cards, at least from my observations. I think it's a different situation than an off center card.

I'm with Steven. Rough-cut flaw is the same as miscut flaw is the same as off-center flaw. There are plenty of sets notorious with bad centering, doesn't make it OK, just like rough-cuts.

[packs]

But is it really a rough cut or just the cut of the cards? I think that's the distinction.

[doug.goodman]

...Also 10 does not mean perfect that is where some of you are having problems...

Oh, I see, my mistake.

So, just a question to make sure I understand correctly, if I have a 10 that isn't perfect, and another card that actually is perfect, what would the second card grade?

Would it get...

Hold on...

Wait for it...

An eleven?

Raw-ly yours,
Doug

[travrosty]

what if they found a 54 aaron just like that one only with a perfect cut right edge. what's that, an 11? who can say one doesn't exist? does the opc gretzky with the rough cut edge that got a 10 and sold for a bajillion dollars make it as a 10 because no other opc rookie gretzky's have a straight edge and no flaking? looks like straight edge ones exist as proof below.

If one comes up with no flaking, I guess we have an 11 on our hands.

so the flaky, rough edge gets a 10 and this other one gets a 9.5 with a straght edge.

what's the deal here? why did the psa graded gretzky get a 10 again?

grading stinks.

[glynparson]

ROUGH CUTS DO NOT LOWER THE GRADE ACCEPT FOR BECKETT. THAT IS THERE POSITION AND I AGREE WITH IT> THE GRETZKY YOU SHOW IS SHEET CUT HENCE THE NO ROUGH EDGE. ALSO 10 DOES NOT EQUAL PERFECT. We need to hold grading companies accountable for the correct things. These would be grading of altered or counterfeirt cards and the benefits given to big submitters and friends of the graders, and yes I do believe this happens.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by glynparson

ROUGH CUTS DO NOT LOWER THE GRADE ACCEPT FOR BECKETT. THAT IS THERE POSITION AND I AGREE WITH IT> THE GRETZKY YOU SHOW IS SHEET CUT HENCE THE NO ROUGH EDGE. ALSO 10 DOES NOT EQUAL PERFECT. We need to hold grading companies accountable for the correct things. These would be grading of altered or counterfeirt cards and the benefits given to big submitters and friends of the graders, and yes I do believe this happens.

Glyn, hush, we must not speak of such things.

[travrosty]

if 10 does not equal perfect, then what does an absolute perfect card deserve for a grade? an 11?

to have a ragged edge gretzky get the same grade as a smooth edge does not make any sense to me. to me, ten is suppose to mean perfect. a ragged, or chipped edging shouldn't get a 10, even if that's how all the cards in that set were made. sheet cut, not sheet cut, doesn't matter. a 10 card should have perfect centering, sharp corners and edges, with no raggedness, no chipping, no creases, no blemishes. That's a 10. otherwise create a 9.5. psa instituted half grades, but not a 9.5, so it goes from 9 to 10. and a ragged edge card like the gretzky or aaron gets a 10? grading is way too subjective adn up to the whim of the authenticator, that can increase a cards value by 10 times if they feel good that day, and not if they get out of the wrong side of the bed, it stinks.

[Runscott]

'10' really is silly.

You would think that the only way a card could be a '10' would be if everything about it turned out exactly as the designer had intended: centering, edges, corners, color, registration, gloss...whatever.

[ullmandds]

Speaking of Schulte...and Dimitri Young/PSA love...how about this Schulte PSA love?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-T206-Wi...item588f47f9f4

Yeah...I trust PSA!!!!!!

I have a PSA 4 T205 Shulte(bought for back) with 2 big ass pin holes in the upper corners. PSA is a sad joke

[glynparson]

and I've had an sgc 86 satchel paige with pen writing over the back and a 1961 leader sgc 88 with a staple hole. S#!+ happens. if they would refuse a buyback id have more of a problem, though i agree there are too many of these things in holders. But the terrible misses i see more often as a qc problem than a grading problem.

[glynparson]

In my opinion, Grading has only in the end made the good card doctors rich and done little to clean up the hobby.

[ullmandds]

"breaker...we've got a thread hijack in progress at net54...let the PSA bashing commence."

[glynparson]

Sheet cut shouldn't matter? Are you serious, how can it not matter that a card was cut with technology different than intended than you want to judge it against cards that were produced as intended. GLAD YOU DONT RUN A GRADING COMPANY. eVEN bECKETT SEEMS TO HAVE REALIZED THEIR ERROR IN GRADING SHHET CUT CARDS AS THE SEEM TO REJECT MORE OF THEM NOW.