1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?

[tedzan]

Here's George Raft (upper rightmost) and 9 of the major Movie Stars in this set (circa 1949).
Incidently, the backs of these cards are white.

George Raft had close connections to Baseball. As a 15-year old, he was a bat-boy for the New York Highlanders (circa 1910).
He also tried out for semi-pro baseball before becoming a movie star. An avid baseball fan, George Raft attended every World
Series from the late 1920's thru to 1957.






TED Z

[Robextend]

Rita Hayworth....nothing wrong with that!!!!

[Pat R]

A few weeks ago my best friend from H.S. brought me some of his cards
to take a look at and give him an idea on the value of some of them.

Among them were these cards. I remember him telling me about them
when he got them. His mother purchased them for him through an add
in the NY Times back in the late 80's-early 90's.

I found this old thread while doing some research and I believe they
must have come from the "Festberg" find. Is there any new info on
these, any idea's on the value of them. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Patrick

[joeadcock]

Pat.....guess you can call this an imposter. I dont recall the name of this set. It has the same front of Aaron Robinson one side(as one of the cards you have) and an actor(recognize the face but dont know actor's name) on other side of the card. Presumably same year.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by joeadcock

Pat.....guess you can call this an imposter. I dont recall the name of this set. It has the same front of Aaron Robinson one side(as one of the cards you have) and an actor(recognize the face but dont know actor's name) on other side of the card. Presumably same year.

Neat cards....have pics on both sides, I have them classified as W571/D305- Bond Bread perforated, but more research is needed. Even in looking at one of the revisions (1967) of the ACC it is difficult to pinpoint their designation....From what I remember W571 was the best I could do .

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

So is there a conclusion as to the designation of the square borders and are they listed in the Standard Catalog?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by archive

posted by: ted zanidakis

it's my understanding that only 24 cards (22 bb and joe louis & primo carnera) were in the sets that dave festberg sold.
is this true for the set you have ?

you may be right about the cards in festburg's "find" not being "reprints"; however, illustrated here is the problem i have
with the "festburg cards".


.................1947 bond bread....................."1949 sports star subjects"

.................1947 bond bread.....................card from festburg "find"

backs


note the difference in the discolored cardboard of the festburg "find" card

furthermore, the two jansen cards and the 1947 bond bread stephens card are printed on thicker cardboard than the
square stephens card. Also, there is a higher printing quality (contrast) in two jansen cards and the 1947 bond bread
stephens card with respect to the stephens card of the festberg find.

Lee

Email me and I will discuss this further...... tedzan11@comcast.net

TED Z

[theshleps]

What do you think? Is it a 1947 or later
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1947-JACKIE-...item35d97b133a

[tedzan]

It looks like a 1947 from the BOND BREAD packages. All four corners appear to have a (partial) bevel. I say "partial" since the corner cuts
are not clean-cut.

I wish the seller would have shown the back of this card....in order for me to be certain that it is an original 1947.


TED Z

[Exhibitman]

Picked this up recently and it seems to be made by the same production people as the Bond etc. cards and related materials. It is the size of a commemorative postage stamp, blank backed, real photo.

[jasoneggert]

Originally Posted by theshleps

What do you think? Is it a 1947 or later
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1947-JACKIE-...item35d97b133a

Later

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Archive

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Here is the Walker Cooper card that I noted in the initial post here. It was never included
in the original 1947 Bond Bread (ROUND cornered cards) issue. And, this fact tells us that
indeed there was a subsequent (SQUARE cornered cards) issue....totally unrelated to the
1947 Bond Bread issue.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1193714837/last-1195061538/


Another factor telling us that these 2 issues (the 1947 and the "1949") are unrelated....is
why are all 48 original cards not available in the SQUARE version ?

Only 24 of the BB cards and two of the Boxing cards from the 1947 set are in the SQUARE
version. And, added in the SQUARE version was Walker Cooper.

I do not claim to be an expert regarding these SQUARE cards. They are a real "mystery" to
most in the hobby. And, I do not know of anyone that can solve this mystery.

Any new thoughts on this subject are greatly appreciated.


TED Z

When the square-cornered versions came out in the '90's, there were opinions expressed that someone had found the original printing plates, and recenty ran off some more of at least select cards. I have the Mize and Kiner, acquired during that time period. Those do show the characteristic regular dot pattern which is consistent with them having been made from the original plates.

Best,

Larry

[Exhibitman]

Some more perforated cards, and proof that the Hess Shoes was just a back stamp:





Elgee says 46 cards of sports, Hollywood and cowboys and we know there are 44 ballplayers, 4 boxers and a bunch of actors potentially available. The ad looks to be 2 cards wide. I suspect there are at least two sheets, maybe more. Leon shows the Holmes with a FB player back, but the Holmes I am getting has actor Van Johnson on the back, and all three of the ad cards have different cowboy fronts. The group I purchased breaks down as follows:

Jackie Robinson/James Cagney
Pee Wee Reese/Western Back
Larry Jansen/Western Back
Harry Brecheen/Western Back
Rex Barney/Western Back
Bruce Edwards/Western Back
Buddy Kerr/Western Back
Roy Rogers/Western Back
Cary Grant/Western Back
Sheldon Jones/Western Back
Willard Marshall/Western Back
Tommy Holmes/Van Johnson
Claudette Colbert/Western Back
Ginger Roberts/Western Back
Gregory Peck/Western Back
Jennifer Jones/Western Back
Katherine Hepburn/Western Back
Lon McCallister/Western Back
Sonja Heine/Western Back
Western Front w/ Three Men/Ad Back
Western Front w/Two Men/Ad Back
Western Front w/One Man/Ad Back

Maybe we can take a shot at a master list?

[Harford20]

Exhibitman, congrats on the group. I bid fairly heavily on this auction as well.

As far as your master list, I have one card I can add:

Ted Williams Front/Babe Zaharias back (have seen 3 of these, but no other combo with either Ted or Babe)

Dave

[Exhibitman]

I was able to piece together a partial sheet. Definitely 4 cards across.

[CharleyBrown]

Can't believe I missed that auction! If you ever decide to sell the Robinson, please let me know.

Amazing lot!

[Exhibitman]

If I sell Robby it would be an auction because I have no idea how to price one.

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

I asked this two years ago and going to try again in hope of getting a clear answer.

What is the conclusion to the designation of the square cornered baseball issues? 47 Bond, 47 Homogenizied or something else?

Thanks

Lee

[tedzan]

Hi Lee

The Square cards were issued in 1948 or 1949 and marketed as "Sports Star Subjects". The proof of this issue date(s) is the inclusion of the Walker Cooper card
as a NY Giant (this subject was not in the original 1947 Bond Bread issue). Furthermore, Cooper was traded to Cinci in the Summer of '49.

The Sports Star Subjects set of 48 (SQUARE) cards were sold in 4 boxes of 12 cards each.


TED Z
.

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

Thanks for clearing this up, Ted

Lee

[Exhibitman]

Has anyone been tracking these issues in terms of the RC nuttiness? Has it spilled into this collecting backwater?

Oh, and here's the Jackie Robinson image as I seem to have killed the one that was posted before:

[tedzan]

Lee

I'm still researching this Sports Star Subjects set. I have yet to find any of the 4 packets containing 12 cards each
that these Square cards were sold in.

I've seen (or had) several of the individual cards (including the Walker Cooper card). Here's my Rizzuto and a sample
of the Movie Star issue (circa 1949-1950). I have a near complete set of the Movie Stars.





Refer to post #8 in this thread to distinguish the original (1949) Square cards from the "Festberg find" Square reprint
cards with respect to the difference in the color of their backs (white vs. toned).

Looking forward to seeing you at the National.


TED Z
.

[khkco4bls]

I'm not a card guy, but are those expensive per card

[Kenny Cole]

Some of my Bond Bread cards

[Leon]

Originally Posted by khkco4bls

I'm not a card guy, but are those expensive per card

Generally speaking it's not an expensive set relative to others.

Kenny- great looking cards there!!

[GasHouseGang]

I believe this photo appeared in the original thread but I think the picture of the cards issued in the boxes disappeared. Here's the photo.

[tedzan]

David M

Thanks for posting those packets.

They are the 4 packets of the Sports Star Subjects set (Square cards) that I alluded to in post #72 here.


TED Z
.

[GasHouseGang]

Is there a checklist for each series of the Sports Stars? It says on the front of the boxes that each series contains 12 cards, but I am not sure if they are all baseball or if they are mixed sports.

[khkco4bls]

That shot of robinson was also used in there picture pack.

[Den*nis O*Brien]

I have no idea if this is relevant to the good work Ted and others have done but...I noticed that the same image was used in the "Imposter Series" as was used in the '38 Salutation Exhibit. It is clear to me by the brim on Andy's cap. Those boxes were very nice to see!!!

[peterose4hof]

I just picked up this Ewell Blackwell with square corners (1949 version).

I was surprised that the card is a pretty flimsy paper stock with a semi-gloss back. Is that consistent with the series or is mine some sort of reprint/fantasy card?

[GasHouseGang]

According to the SCD article, here's the checklist:
1. Rex Barney
2. Yogi Berra
3. Ewell Blackwell*
4. Lou Boudreau*
5. Ralph Branca
6. Harry Brecheen*
7. Primo Carnera*
8. Marchel Cerdan
9. Dom DiMaggio
10. Joe DiMaggio
11. Bobby Doerr*
12. Bruce Edwards
13. Bob Elliott*
14. Del Ennis*
15. Bob Feller*
16. Carl Furillo
17. Joe Gordon*
18. Cid Gordon
19. Joe Hatten
20. Gil Hodges
21. Tommy Holmes*
22. Larry Jansen
23. Sheldon Jones
24. Eddie Joost
25. Charlie Keller
26. Ken Keltner*
27. Buddy Kerr
28. Ralph Kiner*
29. Jake LaMotta
30. Johnny Lindell
31. Whitey Lockman
32. Joe Louis*
33. Willard Marshall
34. John Mize*
35. Stan Musial*
36. Andy Pafko*
37. Johnny Pesky*
38. Pee Wee Reese
39. Phil Rizzuto*
40. Jackie Robinson*
41. Aaron Robinson*
42. Johnny Sain*
43. Enos Slaughter*
44. Vern Stephens*
45. Birdie Tebbets
46. Bobby Thomson
47. Johnny Vander Meer
48. Ted Williams*

Ewell Blackwell was part of the square corner find, so that appears to be what you have. Not sure about the semi-gloss back, however. The backs are generally just regular paper stock and blank.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by peterose4hof

I just picked up this Ewell Blackwell with square corners (1949 version).

I was surprised that the card is a pretty flimsy paper stock with a semi-gloss back. Is that consistent with the series or is mine some sort of reprint/fantasy card?

Hey "Bubba"

Can we see a scan of the back of this Blackwell card.


TED Z
.

[peterose4hof]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey "Bubba"

Can we see a scan of the back of this Blackwell card.


TED Z
.

Here 's the back scan.

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by peterose4hof

Here 's the back scan.

Here's what Ted had posted compared to yours. Yours doesn't look glossy to me, but it is a different color. I think yours compares to what is in my set of 24 square corners I picked up years ago.

[revlis]

I'm new to vintage. Was wondering why this is not considered Jackie Robinson's rookie card? 1947 with rounded corners - this was around before the leaf set, correct?

[Exhibitman]

It is a RC, but that doesn't make it popular.

[tedzan]

All six of these 1947 Bond Bread cards can be considered the 1st Major League (rookie) cards issued of these BB players.






However, the powers to be back in the 1970's overlooked these cards in favor of the Bowman and Leaf issues.


TED Z
.

[revlis]

Thanks for the info. I like the idea of getting a "true" rookie card, might have to pick one of these up even if not as popular.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

It is a RC, but that doesn't make it popular.

+1 ....collectors can be finicky....

[orly57]

This thread made me do it...

[kevinlenane]

Here is an authentic rounded/beveled cornered Ted Williams which I have up n the Bay right now with an inexplicably low grade. They are tough on these guys - i was shooting for about double this and had a big mess in my diaper when i got it back in the mail.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/182184104094...84.m1555.l2649

[doolittle1.1.1]

Need your help,, cannot send Bond Pictures (22) for verification. Even when I try to send email it says no no.Been at this for 2days and feel like IQ is 40 Minus that is

[doolittle1.1.1]

It almost looks like these rounded corners come from picture holders in those days. Mine all have what looks like scotch tape angled at the corners just like the picture holders. Your thoughts please... thank you, Douglas

[Bliggity]

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by doolittle1.1.1

It almost looks like these rounded corners come from picture holders in those days. Mine all have what looks like scotch tape angled at the corners just like the picture holders. Your thoughts please... thank you, Douglas

Douglas

I collected these cards back in 1947. I pulled them out of BOND BREAD packages. Their corners were Factory (die cut) rounded.

FYI....I'm reprising my initial post here.

Originally Posted by Archive

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

It was the Summer of '47....my sister and I carefully opened up Homogenized Bond Bread packages, for a Joe DiMaggio, a Ted Williams,
a Stan Musial, or the new rookie sensation....a Jackie Robinson BB card. Our Mom couldn't buy enough of the Bond Bread loafs. So, we
had our Dad buying Bond Bread for his restaurant and our Aunt buying Bond Bread. In the Fall of 1947, we experienced one of the most
exciting World Series ever played. 1947 was a tremendous year for BB, and a great start for me in the wonderful life-long hobby of col-
lecting BB cards. These B/W cards were really popular with the kids in our neighborhood. By trading & sharing our collections with each
other, we eventually realized that there were no more than 44 BB players and 4 Boxers in a complete set.


1947 Homogenized BOND BREAD wrapper






Many cards in this set are the very 1st (or rookie) cards issued of the players. Shown here are the 1st cards of Yogi Berra, Stan Musial,
Jackie Pobinson, Gil Hodges, Ralph Kiner and Bobby Thomson.








TED Z

[doolittle1.1.1]

Originally Posted by Archive

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

It was the Summer of '47....my sister and I carefully opened up Homogenized Bond Bread packages, for a Joe DiMaggio, a Ted Williams,
a Stan Musial, or the new rookie sensation....a Jackie Robinson BB card. Our Mom couldn't buy enough of the Bond Bread loafs. So, we
had our Dad buying Bond Bread for his restaurant and our Aunt buying Bond Bread. In the Fall of 1947, we experienced one of the most
exciting World Series ever played. 1947 was a tremendous year for BB, and a great start for me in the wonderful life-long hobby of col-
lecting BB cards. These B/W cards were really popular with the kids in our neighborhood. By trading & sharing our collections with each
other, we eventually realized that there were no more than 44 BB players and 4 Boxers in a complete set.


1947 Homogenized BOND BREAD wrapper






Many cards in this set are the very 1st (or rookie) cards issued of the players. Shown here are the 1st cards of Yogi Berra, Stan Musial,
Jackie Pobinson, Gil Hodges, Ralph Kiner and Bobby Thomson.





This set has been the source of much confusion in the hobby for many years. The only true 1947 Bond Bread cards are these 48 in this
general set and the Jackie Robinson set. All of which have beveled (or ROUNDED) corners in order to fit into the bread loaf packages.
Unfortunately, other issues that resemble the Bond Bread cards that were issued after 1947 and were never packaged in Bond Bread loafs
have been mis-identified as "1947 Bond Bread" cards. Grading Co. have been most guilty of erroneously labeling these SQUARE "imposters".

Shown here are two cards from the 1949 (unknown) issue which includes 24 of the BB players depicted in the 1947 Bond Bread issue and
an additional BB player (or 2). Also, many of the popular Movie Stars of that era were included. These cards may have been printed by the
same firm that printed the 1947 set. However, their SQUARE corners and their inferior cardboard stock belie the fact that these cards are
NOT related to the "1947 Bond Bread" issue.
A recent find of many of these SQUARE cards (BB and Movie Stars) suggest a 1949 issue date since Walker Cooper is depicted in this col-
section as a NY Giant (Cooper was traded to Cinci in the Summer of '49).


1949 (unknown) issue






A 1947 Bond Bread Team/checklist will follow in the next post here.


TED Z

I do believe you are correct with 1947 vs 1949. The photo of Rizzuto shows his full signature. My photo only shows part of it which means mine is a smaller photo, because they have been in my posssession since 1947/1949 and the back of at least 20 are white and not yellow. The thickness is thin, compared to cards of that era, therefore, I believe this set is the 1949 version Doolittle1.1.1

[Leon]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Douglas

I collected these cards back in 1947. I pulled them out of BOND BREAD packages. Their corners were Factory (die cut) rounded.

FYI....I'm reprising my initial post here.

And an informative reprisal thread is always welcome. Most board members didn't collect in 1947.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by Leon

And an informative reprisal thread is always welcome. Most board members didn't collect in 1947.

Many of us have enjoyed ripping wax, most of us would love to have ripped tobacco and caramel...Ted is the only one I know that has ripped flour.

[PowderedH2O]

Many of us have enjoyed ripping wax, most of us would love to have ripped tobacco and caramel...Ted is the only one I know that has ripped flour.

Now that's just funny right there... and true...lol