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#3251
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This series is beyond rare. That's the only Oilers I've ever seen, and one of very few made for ANY teams. I do have the Steelers (equally scarce) from that series... Rob, if you are interested in that one, just shoot me a text on our ongoing thread. It will take some digging, but I know I have it in nice condition.
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#3252
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Hey Mark, you ever own this one??
__________________
For more information on pennant makers, visit: www.pennantFEVER.weebly.com ; then www.pennantFACTORY.weebly.com . |
#3253
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#3254
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Never even seen one... That's awesome! Gotta be made by Collegiate of Ames... right?
Simply fantastic! |
#3255
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__________________
R0b G0ul3t Visit www.feltfootball.com the largest pennant gallery on the internet |
#3256
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Collegiate Mfg. Co. was always a very military-friendly company. I can't imagine they made any money on this particular design; but, given the customer, I'm sure it was their privilege to make this one. They made at least two variants of this design for the Navy: one for San Diego and another for Bainbridge Island, WA.
__________________
For more information on pennant makers, visit: www.pennantFEVER.weebly.com ; then www.pennantFACTORY.weebly.com . |
#3257
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Great info...
Same artist for sure... and you're right. They probably sold very few of these. I can't imagine young Military Trainees spending their sparse expendable income on this (cool as it is). That must be one of very few survivors. |
#3258
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Unless there is something I do not see, this pennant was an excellent buy.
https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...e?itemid=66515 Jerry Sage |
#3259
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Completely agree Jerry...
Many people consider that one to be the most desirable and important post-war pennant. It has routinely sold for double that amount, and the consignor must've sunk a lot of dough into that framing job. It did not even have a bid until the final day! In addition, REA described it as having a clipped tip, but it is 100% original and complete. Every example ever to surface has that same style tip, as it was made that way. Consignor can't be very happy. Last edited by perezfan; 04-21-2020 at 04:29 PM. |
#3260
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Mark -
I took another look at the pennant. There appears to be a stain or a "faded area" - lighter shade of red. Bottom left on the Ebbets Field graphic Take a look and let me know what you think. Jerry |
#3261
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Jerry...
I see exactly what you are describing, and truly believe that lighter patch of red is due to reflection of the glass frame. I have photographed these things countless times, and that's the exact type of reflection you just can't seem to avoid when photographing. REA is pretty meticulous with their descriptions, and did not allude to any fading of the pennant. I am 99.9% positive they would have mentioned it if it was indeed present. Heck, they even disclosed the "clipped tip" which was not even a real condition flaw! Let's call it a blunted Fishtail (as made). ![]() Last edited by perezfan; 04-21-2020 at 05:00 PM. |
#3262
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(I will add that I’ve seen this without the squared off tips, the blue versions more than red but I’ve seen it red, too. Just production variability, that’s all. I think I may have even seen this completely squared off without the “notch” ... but my memory is vague.) Last edited by thetahat; 04-21-2020 at 05:35 PM. |
#3263
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Totally agree with you guys: none of these were clipped by the consumer.
This fishtail style was, to my knowledge, only used by Trench in 1955. Fishtails aren't unusual as concerns pennants; but, by the 1950s, they weren't real common. What makes this pennant so unusual is that the spine is covered in real fringe; and the fishtail end is adorned with a faux-fringe that was screen printed on. And, apparently, the "fishtailing" was done by hand at the factory in Buffalo. It looks to me like they just had someone cut a simple "V" into the end of the pennant; and, that person wasn't real consistent as to how precisely he/she cut into the end of the felt. Additionally, the screen printer may have gotten too close to the edge of the felt ... leaving the cutter little room to play with. Since this pennant was thrown together at season's end, there probably wasn't time to redo these. I've definitely seen some pretty clean, symmetrical versions of the blue variant. But even these two below show you how imperfect the cutting was....
__________________
For more information on pennant makers, visit: www.pennantFEVER.weebly.com ; then www.pennantFACTORY.weebly.com . |
#3264
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And also to Greg's point, a couple have surfaced with no fishtail (in other words, just a very blunt end, with no "V" cutout). This would certainly lend credence to the belief that these were cut by hand at the "factory". There was a definite lack of precision, and they even missed a few altogether! |
#3265
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Hard to believe that Greg had to save this pennant from getting no bids (as a duplicate, no less). I was tempted to do the same when I saw it was still available for the opening bid amount. But at the time of the initial bid shutdown, I thought I still might win a couple of lots later in the night. So I stayed away, in the fear of spending too much money. Had I known I'd be shutout, I might've done the same thing as Greg!
This pennant used to cause a "bloodbath" of activity. I have noticed a slow downward trend with Brooklyn stuff in particular. Anything Brooklyn Dodgers was almost untouchable a decade ago. This included everything from the Rempel Dolls to Dodgers Pennants to Programs, Ad Signs, Uniforms, etc. But as the last generation of fans who lived through the Ebbets Field days is now well into retirement (or has passed away), I think we have lost a significant percentage of Brooklyn collectors. Seems that way, at least. Last edited by perezfan; 04-21-2020 at 11:41 PM. |
#3266
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Mark -
You are correct about the current lower value of Brooklyn Dodger items. My 1955 WS Pennant sold in a Lelands Auction for a little over $1,000. As you can see by the red staining - the condition was not great. The one in REA was beautiful. Also note the irregular cutting of the tip. Jerry |
#3267
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It used to be that a clean Emmet Kelly pennant would fetch about $300.
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#3268
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Mark, I can’t really comment on the market for Brooklyn pennants, but I believe you are correct regarding Brooklyn memorabilia in general. Richard Simon (veteran autograph dealer) made the same comment a while ago regarding autographs. While I am an avid Dodger collector, I am marginally too young to relate too much to the Brooklyn team (plus I grew up in LA). I used to collect both LA and Brooklyn because I appreciated the history of the team, but about 5 years ago I quit buying Brooklyn stuff in general and actually sold off a lot of what I already had (other than anything relating to Jackie), mainly figuring the Brooklyn collector base would begin to shrink each year as they aged and quit buying. The connection to Brooklyn is fairly weak here in LA, and a lot of fans aren't even aware that the team moved here from Brooklyn. Certain Brooklyn players like Snider and Hodges still do well because they are also known from their playing days in LA and were popular here, but I think there is a definite softening in prices for players whose careers were strictly in Brooklyn. Incidentally, I believe prices have softened for items relating to early (1958-1970) LA players as well.
Rick |
#3269
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Speaking about Dodgers pennants.
Long time lurker, infrequent poster, to this thread. I'm going thru my pennants and have come upon these three. The one with the play at the plate is in Egner's guide, but only as a Los Angeles version. Neither of the other two are in there either, unless I'm missing them. Anybody have any knowledge or thoughts? I don't really consider myself a pennant collector, although I do have some pennants. Thanx, Doug |
#3270
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Doug,
All three of those pennants are very difficult and would command very good money. Condition is very nice as well. Don’t be afraid to post over here, there’s lots of good info to be had and we all love pennants. |
#3271
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Agree with Jason... All 3 of those are nice as well as pretty scarce.
The top one is extremely common as an LA Dodgers Pennant, but quite rare as a Brooklyn Pennant. The combination of it being Brooklyn (as opposed to LA), and having color graphics make it lots more valuable than the frequently seen LA version. It features typical AdFlag artistry, but is about 10 times rarer with colored graphics than just the usual plain white. The "Our Champs" pennant is small (even for a 3/4 size pennant), but the rarity overcomes its rather diminutive size. I sold mine about 10 years ago, and have only seen a couple since then. It's a charming pennant that tells an endearing story... Almost certainly made prior to 1955, the Bums were perennial contenders and came close many times, but could never quite win it all. So while they were not World Champs, they were "Our Champs". The third pennant is a somewhat rare 3/4 size variation. I've always felt it was an interesting graphic image... a fine representation of early 1950s artwork. Very nice trio and great post! Last edited by perezfan; 04-22-2020 at 11:25 PM. |
#3272
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Any idea what years they would have been released? I'm thinking late 50s for the green one, due to sharing artwork with the LA release. 50s, maybe 40s for the other two. I have a second "Our Champs" pennant, which is listed by Egner as 1940s, so I'm go with that. I need to dig thru my records to see where I got them, and how they were listed. I really need to pay better attention to the stuff I pickup. Hahaha. Last edited by doug.goodman; 04-22-2020 at 11:36 PM. |
#3273
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Thank you Mark for the info, and both of you for the responses. I'm in the process of sorting thru my stuff (as I'm sure all of us who find ourselves with unplanned vacations are doing). I have scanned all of my pennants, but since none of them actually fit on my scanner, I am now piecing the scans together for each one. Once I have finished them all I will upload them to my flickr page, and post a link, for those who care. If I find any others that I have questions about, I will be sure to ask. Until them, here's another one I like, even though its bigger than all the rest, so a pain to store. I dated it to 1962 based on Feller & Jackie being the most recent inductees included. Thanks again, Doug |
#3274
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#3275
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I have been going through many of my 1950s - 60s pennants, and cannot believe the number of subtle color variations that exist. Even the somewhat common "Stadium" pennants can have up to 6 or 7 variations when you look closely. So many of the color combinations are actually quite scarce, if you know what to look for. Maybe some day, more collectors will know to look for (and appreciate) some of these subtle nuances. If collecting pennants was like collecting cards, many of these rarities would sell for really big bucks. Sometimes I wish the collector base for pennants wasn't so thin, and that these things were more appreciated. But I suppose it's nice that we can still collect them for relatively cheap prices, and without such fierce competition. Below is one such example of an otherwise common White Sox pennant. The Blue example features a white infield, and white hands and face. The red example features a tan infield, tan hands, and beige face. Both are rare with the colored graphics, as the pennant is normally found with graphics that are just white. Not sure who really cares... but for those who do, there are hundreds of other hidden rarities just waiting to be discovered. |
#3276
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Didn’t you mention an upcoming pennant sale, Mark?
Any Giants? ![]()
__________________
if you can help with SF Giants items (no cards), let me send you my wantlist! |
#3277
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I sold/traded a bunch in an unexpected private sale, and it took lots of time. I still have quite a few available, some of which I'll try to list on B/S/T later tonight. But any Giants pennants that I would unload are ones I'm pretty sure you already have, or would not excite you much. But I'll keep digging... thanks! |
#3278
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Last edited by thetahat; 04-23-2020 at 04:56 PM. |
#3279
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Last edited by thetahat; 04-23-2020 at 06:27 PM. |
#3280
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(No A's or Phillies, but will re-look at what I should part with.) Stay tuned, Greg... Last edited by perezfan; 04-23-2020 at 06:36 PM. |
#3281
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__________________
R0b G0ul3t Visit www.feltfootball.com the largest pennant gallery on the internet |
#3282
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I finished my pennant project tonight. Here they are :
https://www.flickr.com/photos/douggoodman/ I found a couple from the Brooklyn years that again I'm curious as to the thoughts of the experts who frequent this thread. They are also pictured below. There is a 1950s 14" batter / pitcher pennant in the guide with similar artwork, but the batter's pose is different, with no flag. Also, mine is full sized. The pins were attached to the Ebbets pennant when I got it, and I figured why take them off. I also found a bunch of LA pennants that aren't in Egner's book, but many of them are from the 70s, when I think there are just too many to list. Below are a few of the earlier ones. The jumping fielder I think would be from early in the LA era, because I see that as the coliseum below him. Doug |
#3283
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Doug -
WOW - VERY IMPRESSIVE DODGER PENNANT COLLECTION. Jerry Sage |
#3284
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Doug, great collection of Dodger pennants!! I can't believe you just had these stashed away somewhere.
Rick |
#3285
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Doug:
You have a few toughies there for sure. Never seen that '62 phantom photo + sash pennant before. Trench made another phantom for the '62 Dodgers that lacked the sash + photo; but did include facsimile signatures of the players from that roster. That one, however, is the far more common of the two. Yours is quite rare. As to that Brooklyn Dodgers pennant with the pinbacks on it ... are you certain its vintage? I am certain this was offered as a 1980s-era reproduction of a design style that, as far as I know, was never offered in the 1950s. I've heard other Brooklyn collectors debate this pennant's authenticity, so I'll be curious what others on this thread think....
__________________
For more information on pennant makers, visit: www.pennantFEVER.weebly.com ; then www.pennantFACTORY.weebly.com . Last edited by Domer05; 04-25-2020 at 10:50 AM. |
#3286
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It's odd that so few of my Giants pennants share similarities with the Dodgers pennants. Whether NY or California, they were in the same region. Here's some of the few where I saw similarities. The LH batter is only similar in the font that was used by tons of teams.
__________________
if you can help with SF Giants items (no cards), let me send you my wantlist! |
#3287
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When I was a kid, I always bought pennants when I went to games (they were $1 as I remember), then stapled them to my bedroom walls, with a big circle of them on the ceiling. I believe all of those are in my parents attic, so I suppose at some point I need to track them down. I have been picking up "collectible" pennants for many years when I liked the visual, and I thought I was getting a good price, then they would go on the stack. I'll take a closer look at the one with the pins and maybe post some better pix, if I think there is anything to look at closer. Just because I have no real knowledge of pennants, I have always figured that there must be something in the stack that wasn't what I thought it was, and have particularly been "concerned" that one of the 1963 WS pennants was bad. The one with the more narrow placement of the tassels, has always piqued my spidey senses. It's a very soft felt, the only "stiff" feel to any of it is where it's printed, it almost feels like patches (but it is printed). Neither has anything on the back. Doug PS : Rob - I like that one with the Golden Gate bridge and the batter. I feel like I remember that one from growing up going to (contrary to my collection) Candlestick as a kid. So what if I'm a NorCal Dodger fan, what's wrong with that? Last edited by doug.goodman; 04-25-2020 at 11:54 AM. |
#3288
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Doug, that is a fantastic Dodgers Pennant Collection!
![]() Some incredibly rare ones there... some of which may not surface again in the next decade. It would take forever to amass a collection like that today. Domer was right however, about the one with the Pinbacks in it. The Pins are legit, but that particular pennant is indeed a 1980s reproduction. If you look closely, you'll see the felt is different, and there are probably a few of them on eBay as we speak. Seems like half of the eBay Sellers properly describe them as Repros, and half just let it slide. But all the others are 100% original and magnificent. Thanks for sharing those incredible treasures with us! |
#3289
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Some original pennants had the two sets of tassels placed close together like that, but they were from the 1940s and 50s (and typically featured the thinner "Spaghetti Tassels"). That phenomenon disappeared later in the '50s, and was beyond extinct by 1963 (the supposed year of that pennant). Last edited by perezfan; 04-25-2020 at 12:30 PM. |
#3290
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The knowledge on the board never fails to astound me. I appreciate all the help from you guys. Doug |
#3291
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Another thing to look for as far as determining repro vs legit ... the thread used to sew the spine. By the 80s they were using a plastic-like thread. Hard to describe but when you compare to vintage pennants it jumps out at you.
Here are other repros, maybe from the same lot, often they are passed on as “vintage” on eBay |
#3292
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My main way of avoiding repros, which I have to say after the comments on this thread about my collection have shown that I have done a pretty good job of, is in regards to purchasing habits. I made the decision long ago to buy mostly from well know and / or reputable sellers. If anything gives me pause, I just avoid it. "Auction fever" is not my style. I have learned in my quest for baseball magazine supplements that there is always another one lurking in the future. Although that Newcombe portrait version m114 that I missed will keep bugging me until that legendary "another one" finally makes an appearance. Hahaha. |
#3293
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Doug,
You have a really great pennant collection. I’m a big fan. You have some real tough ones in that group. I like the fact that you have so many examples. I have a number of similar Yankees ones that match some of yours. Great group. |
#3294
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__________________
if you can help with SF Giants items (no cards), let me send you my wantlist! |
#3295
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I agree with everyone here, Doug. Nice thorough Dodgers collection.
Based on some of your other posts, I was hoping to hear that you picked these up traveling around the country for music related events. |
#3296
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This one’s a bit late but I’m watching a documentary on the history of the STL Browns and snapped this pic
Last edited by thetahat; 04-25-2020 at 05:22 PM. |
#3297
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Regarding pennant colors ... here’s one that looks spray painted instead of screened.
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#3298
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I would guess airbrushed. Nice pennant!
__________________
if you can help with SF Giants items (no cards), let me send you my wantlist! |
#3299
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love it !!!
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#3300
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But, never having found one doesn't stop me from always looking. Doug Last edited by doug.goodman; 04-25-2020 at 06:55 PM. |
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