Hey, pennant guys

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Domer05

I'm certain the first one is by Trench. Trench definitely used that quirky font in the 1950s. And, that baseball/moon-lit batter artwork is a known Trench design, too. We know it was used by Trench ca. 1950--Rick Levy found/posted a 1949 photo documenting this fact. I've seen it on many a Brooklyn Dodger pennant; but, never on a post-1958 Los Angeles Dodgers pennant. It was always monochrome when used on Brooklyn pennants. It was also used on some Yankees and Phillies pennants from what I assume to be the same era. Of note: the Phillies pennant was polychrome.

Interestingly, there's no New York Giants pennant featuring this moon-lit batter artwork; only San Francisco.

As to the others, the problem, for me, is that those latter SF Giants pennants in your evolution don't really look anything like what Trench was making for other teams in the 1960s--especially as concerns stadium pennants. The coloring, in particular, looks like it was applied with water colors, or a very translucent ink. It's also quite vibrant. Most likely these are by Trench, too; but ... I guess you couldn't exclude a copy cat by some bay area pennant maker that only made Giants pennants, right?

I just can't think of other Trench-made baseball pennants from the 1960s that resemble these....

Thanks, Kyle. Someday, if I'm feeling ambitious, I should add a "maker" column to my pennant spreadsheet(s).

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Domer05

I'm certain the first one is by Trench. Trench definitely used that quirky font in the 1950s. And, that baseball/moon-lit batter artwork is a known Trench design, too. We know it was used by Trench ca. 1950--Rick Levy found/posted a 1949 photo documenting this fact. I've seen it on many a Brooklyn Dodger pennant; but, never on a post-1958 Los Angeles Dodgers pennant. It was always monochrome when used on Brooklyn pennants. It was also used on some Yankees and Phillies pennants from what I assume to be the same era. Of note: the Phillies pennant was polychrome.

Interestingly, there's no New York Giants pennant featuring this moon-lit batter artwork; only San Francisco.

As to the others, the problem, for me, is that those latter SF Giants pennants in your evolution don't really look anything like what Trench was making for other teams in the 1960s--especially as concerns stadium pennants. The coloring, in particular, looks like it was applied with water colors, or a very translucent ink. It's also quite vibrant. Most likely these are by Trench, too; but ... I guess you couldn't exclude a copy cat by some bay area pennant maker that only made Giants pennants, right?

I just can't think of other Trench-made baseball pennants from the 1960s that resemble these....

I have always thought that those funky off-colored Giants Pennants were made by a local Northern Cal or Independent manufacturer. As you stated... no other teams had designs or colors even slightly resembling those early '60s Candlestick pennants. They are completely unique to the Giants.

[erikc21]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Here’s another pennant that seems to be from the same manufacturer, based on the texture of the screened letters. Boring but rare pennant

The Browns one does appear to have very similar font. Besides the football player + stars, do you all think the font and the ‘dots’ after the city/name resemble the Browns or Phillies?




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[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by erikc21

The Browns one does appear to have very similar font. Besides the football player + stars, do you all think the font and the ‘dots’ after the city/name resemble the Browns or Phillies?




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I do. Without a doubt (or dot).

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by erikc21

The Browns one does appear to have very similar font. Besides the football player + stars, do you all think the font and the ‘dots’ after the city/name resemble the Browns or Phillies?




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I think you might be onto something Erik.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by erikc21

The Browns one does appear to have very similar font. Besides the football player + stars, do you all think the font and the ‘dots’ after the city/name resemble the Browns or Phillies?




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Interesting! Erik, does the paint have the rough texture like in this pic? Hopefully you can see it, it has a fine grid-like pattern to it. That seems to be unique to pennants of this type.

[erikc21]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Interesting! Erik, does the paint have the rough texture like in this pic? Hopefully you can see it, it has a fine grid-like pattern to it. That seems to be unique to pennants of this type.

Here are some closeups I took - looks similar to me!

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Interesting! Erik, does the paint have the rough texture like in this pic? Hopefully you can see it, it has a fine grid-like pattern to it. That seems to be unique to pennants of this type.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't put too much stock in the texture of screen printed graphics. That "fine grid-like pattern" you reference is the mesh imprint from the stencil carrier. Every maker used these. Some are more pronounced on the final product because, depending on the detail of the design being reproduced, the screen printer would use screens with different mesh counts. This one just looks like they used a coarse screen with a low mesh count.

I printed my "LA Dodgers v. SF Giants "1st. GAME" Pennant (1958)" (https://pennantfactory.weebly.com/bl...e-pennant-1958) using a screen with a mesh count of 160. Anything less than this and the detail of the bridge wouldn't have come out. But for simple designs, like large, block letters with no detail--a lower mesh count will suffice, e.g., 110. Lower mesh counts permit more ink to pass through the screen, resulting in brighter, more opaque graphics.

There's many variables when screen printing a pennant: mesh count of screen used; substrate used (wool, wool blend, or Duvetyne); ink used (lead or non-lead). Within each manufacturer, I'd expect to see evidence of these variables from one design to the next. Therefore, I don't really think each maker had a consistent "screen printing signature" you can use for ID'ing one company from the next. With pennants, that works for things like hand writing, letter scripts, and original artwork used on a piece; but, not so much for screen printing.

With one exception: secondary color applications. The way that each maker added colors to their white underbase during the manufacturing process
did differ. Some used really dull inks (Trench, ADFLAG); others used fluorescent Day-Glo inks (WGN, HANCO).

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by erikc21

The Browns one does appear to have very similar font. Besides the football player + stars, do you all think the font and the ‘dots’ after the city/name resemble the Browns or Phillies?



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Erick, your Eagles pennant is by WGN. Totally sweet design.

I think you're making a good case Greg's St. Louis Browns pennant may be by them, too.

[Ribbens]

Can someone help me identify the year of this Boston Bruins orange with black edge felt pennant with a "bruin bear" in the goal?

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Ribbens

Can someone help me identify the year of this Boston Bruins orange with black edge felt pennant with a "bruin bear" in the goal?

Precise year no. Decade? Likely 1970s. Though I've never seen it in orange.

[Ribbens]

Thanks, I just won it in an auction and pick it up tomorrow. Thanks

[Duluth Eskimo]

It’s earlier than that. 1960’s. This pennant is usually done in yellow with black graphics. Did you win the others too? It looks like a nice group of 60’s hockey pennants.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

It’s earlier than that. 1960’s. This pennant is usually done in yellow with black graphics. Did you win the others too? It looks like a nice group of 60’s hockey pennants.

Possible, but I'm pretty sure this pennant was made into the 1970s. There are some made of very thin material that I don't believe was used in the 1960s. Would need a better picture.

[Djcmac1]

Here’s one from my collection! Newbie here! Lots of great pics!

[Duluth Eskimo]

It was made in to the 70’s yes. The one you show I believe started being sold in the 60’s. I believe the one he showed is earlier than this one, but this is the one I was referring to that is more common.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Djcmac1

Here’s one from my collection! Newbie here! Lots of great pics!

Welcome!

[erikc21]

Hey guys -

I can’t remember if this topic was discussed before, but have you seen pennant spines sewed like this...intentionally? Both ends folded over and sewed? Seems like a strange design concept...

[murphusa]

Not perfect but fun all the same

[murphusa]

a few others from the last month

[bocca001]

Erik- sweet Oilers pennant! I've never seen that one.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by murphusa

Not perfect but fun all the same

These are four cool pennants. Phillies Blue Jay is a classic. Senators is a neat color and the graphics colors are very bold, they usually fade on this pennant. And the Athletics might be my favorite of all stadium pennants. Congrats!

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by murphusa

Not perfect but fun all the same

"Mr. Senator" was the creation of Zang Auerbach, brother of Red, who also did The Boston Celtics' leprechaun.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

"Mr. Senator" was the creation of Zang Auerbach, brother of Red, who also did The Boston Celtics' leprechaun.

Right.... I still remember when Mastro/Legendary auctioned his original concept art of the Senator. T'was super cool, but just another underbidder status for me.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by erikc21

Hey guys -

I can’t remember if this topic was discussed before, but have you seen pennant spines sewed like this...intentionally? Both ends folded over and sewed? Seems like a strange design concept...

I've heard about that pennant. It was made during the great scissors shortage of 1964.

In all seriousness...I love it and have never seen it. But if it were ever to become available, I'd defer to Marc.

[perezfan]

Agree.... Never seen another Oilers (or any pennant) made quite like that. Kind of a cool idea, IMHO.

Gotta be the rarest Oilers made... just fantastic, Erik!

[ooo-ribay]

Great pennants, Murph!

[Djcmac1]

Picked this up last night!

[bocca001]

Originally Posted by Djcmac1

Picked this up last night!

Nice! That is one of the first Giants pennants I ever bought. It led me to want to collect more and more.

[Djcmac1]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Nice! That is one of the first Giants pennants I ever bought. It led me to want to collect more and more.

Love the orange! Crispy!

[perezfan]

Yeah, that all orange one is killer!

[ooo-ribay]

I still don’t see what’s wrong with the Philadelphia pennant.

[Djcmac1]

Here’s an oldie I got a little bit ago.

[Birderdj]

Looking for any insight on this pennant. Age, maker, even what sport it’s for? Buffalo has had many franchises with the Bisons name over the years( Baseball, hockey, football, et al)



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[Fballguy]

I was bidding on it as if it was football primarily because I've only ever seen a "Bisons" football pennant from that era (1940s). But it could be Minor League Baseball, Professional Basketball or Professional Hockey as well.

Being 3/4 size and given the price it sold for, I suspect that someone knows for sure or at least feels it is most likely NOT the football team...thus making it even more rare.

I guess that's the beauty of this one...it can be whatever you want it to be.

[Birderdj]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

I was bidding on it as if it was football primarily because I've only ever seen a "Bisons" football pennant from that era (1940s). But it could be Minor League Baseball, Professional Basketball or Professional Hockey as well.

Being 3/4 size and given the price it sold for, I suspect that someone knows for sure or at least feels it is most likely NOT the football team...thus making it even more rare.

I guess that's the beauty of this one...it can be whatever you want it to be.

I would have guessed the AAFC Bisons as well. Colors and style look a lot like the Bisons/Bills pennants I’ve seen from that era.


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[Dc1917]

Hello, all. I'm a new joiner and have loved reading through all the posts - highly informative!

I picked up the attached ND pennant this past weekend - believed to be from their first Championship in 1924.

Two questions:
1) Has anyone seen any other examples of this pennant or other 1924 ND championship pennants?

2) Any way to confirm 1924 on this one (i.e., rule out 1929/1930 championships)? Pennant is from Chicago Pennant Co at 41" long (w/out tassels) and 14" wide.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Dc1917

Hello, all. I'm a new joiner and have loved reading through all the posts - highly informative!

I picked up the attached ND pennant this past weekend - believed to be from their first Championship in 1924.

Two questions:
1) Has anyone seen any other examples of this pennant or other 1924 ND championship pennants?

2) Any way to confirm 1924 on this one (i.e., rule out 1929/1930 championships)? Pennant is from Chicago Pennant Co at 41" long (w/out tassels) and 14" wide.

Great pennant! It’s the real deal but I couldn’t date it for you.

Domer may be able to help. He’s well versed in all the makers and a ND guy, as well.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by Dc1917

Hello, all. I'm a new joiner and have loved reading through all the posts - highly informative!

I picked up the attached ND pennant this past weekend - believed to be from their first Championship in 1924.

Two questions:
1) Has anyone seen any other examples of this pennant or other 1924 ND championship pennants?

2) Any way to confirm 1924 on this one (i.e., rule out 1929/1930 championships)? Pennant is from Chicago Pennant Co at 41" long (w/out tassels) and 14" wide.

Dc1917: HO-LY-SHeeeeeeeeeeet!

Never seen that pennant before. And, yes, I believe there's good evidence this was made to commemorate the '24 team--not the '29 or '30 National Championship winning teams ... or the '43, '46, '47 or '49 teams; or the '66, '73, or '77 champs. Or the '88 team. Definitely not any of these teams.

Lots of championships = lots of confusion. That's the problem with winning all the time, right?

Seriously, it's from 1924. We know because the label used (label #6, on my BLOG) was only in use for a limited window: roughly 1924-27. Chipen'co switched to a whole new label at the end of the 1920s, so we can say with confidence this isn't from that era. See: https://pennantfever.weebly.com/blog...ago-pennant-co

I wondered when the term "National Champions" first came into vogue; and whether it was commonly in use by the mid-1920s. It was! In fact, there's one other Notre Dame pennant, that I know of, that features the term and the year 1924 on it. I've never actually seen it, so who knows if any exist today, but I do believe it was made. You can read all about it, and my attempt to reproduce it, here: https://pennantfever.weebly.com/blog...ago-pennant-co

Thanks for sharing, and welcome to the thread!

[MK]

Originally Posted by Dc1917

Hello, all. I'm a new joiner and have loved reading through all the posts - highly informative!

I picked up the attached ND pennant this past weekend - believed to be from their first Championship in 1924.

Two questions:
1) Has anyone seen any other examples of this pennant or other 1924 ND championship pennants?

2) Any way to confirm 1924 on this one (i.e., rule out 1929/1930 championships)? Pennant is from Chicago Pennant Co at 41" long (w/out tassels) and 14" wide.

Congratulations on this incredible find. Truly a gem. Just my opinion, but if it were me, I would definitely have this professionally framed. It is certainly deserving. If you do, make sure and take a photo of the tag on the back as a reminder.

[erikc21]

We’ve covered this topic a lot, but I still enjoy a good before and after picture. I try to stay away from the color red, but this one improved quite a bit imho.

It’s a rainy and gloomy day here so the lighting doesn’t show the ‘after’ as well as I’d like.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by erikc21

We’ve covered this topic a lot, but I still enjoy a good before and after picture. I try to stay away from the color red, but this one improved quite a bit imho.

It’s a rainy and gloomy day here so the lighting doesn’t show the ‘after’ as well as I’d like.

Great result Erik!

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by erikc21

We’ve covered this topic a lot, but I still enjoy a good before and after picture. I try to stay away from the color red, but this one improved quite a bit imho.

It’s a rainy and gloomy day here so the lighting doesn’t show the ‘after’ as well as I’d like.

Very nice …. Simple design but tough (and cool) pennant.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by erikc21

We’ve covered this topic a lot, but I still enjoy a good before and after picture. I try to stay away from the color red, but this one improved quite a bit imho.

It’s a rainy and gloomy day here so the lighting doesn’t show the ‘after’ as well as I’d like.

Reds fan here, great job on a cool pennant. I never thought of cleaning a pennant. How did you do it?

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[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by todeen

Reds fan here, great job on a cool pennant. I never thought of cleaning a pennant. How did you do it?

In a nutshell....hang vertically, use painter’s tape to both nang and protect the spine (I tape mine to the shower wall), spray with a bleach solution, rinse rapidly and completely with clear water.

I would start with maybe a 25% bleach solution. Caution: red can be a tricky color. Other ink colors are usually unaffected but I ruined a valuable pennant with red ink. Plenty of discussion and examples in this thread.

[erikc21]

Originally Posted by todeen

Reds fan here, great job on a cool pennant. I never thought of cleaning a pennant. How did you do it?

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I believe baseball Rob posted the method a while back - although I don’t know the post number.

The process is basically staying the pennant with water, bleach and then water again. I will try to look for the original post as it gives good instructions. It’s important to keep the bleach away from the tassels and spine.

Rob, do you have the original post handy?

[Bumpus Jones]

Thought I'd play the B side this morning...

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Bumpus Jones

Thought I'd play the B side this morning...

That’s B yootiful!

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Bumpus Jones

Thought I'd play the B side this morning...

Yo Chris great to hear from you and WOW … stunning! I doubt many of those were made and for one to survive in such nice condition? Great find!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by erikc21

Rob, do you have the original post handy?

I don’t.