Hey, pennant guys

[thetahat]

There’s an easy way for me to tell. The big dealer from Dallas (forgetting his name) has the most gi-normous collection of wonderful Red Sox pennants, I think his pics may be somewhere back in this thread. If he won the pennant, it’s real. If he didn’t bid, it’s fake. Simple as that.

[bocca001]

I've attached a pic of the back of the red sox pennant, where you can mostly see the spine stitching that appears to leave no way to insert a stick and the long tassels with the triangular cut out (notch) at the tip. And also a pic of the modern Seals pennant with the same characteristics.

Was the triangular tip cut out/notch something that was used on older pennants? Anyone have any examples?

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

There’s an easy way for me to tell. The big dealer from Dallas (forgetting his name) has the most gi-normous collection of wonderful Red Sox pennants, I think his pics may be somewhere back in this thread. If he won the pennant, it’s real. If he didn’t bid, it’s fake. Simple as that.

Rick Haskins. First person I thought of when the picture was posted. If he doesn't chime in before, there's a big Tristar show he does every six months in my town. The next one is Feb 8-10. I'll probably see him there and can get his thoughts.

Not a baseball pennant expert by any means, but for me, the graphics look too precise for the era a 32" pennant would be indicative of.

[Duluth Eskimo]

I don’t care who bought it, it’s a newer piece. The stitching on the piping and layering of pieces screams new. Bocca is right.

Rick is probably looking at this and I would be surprised if he spent $400 on this.

[perezfan]

Yeah... I was thinking it was likely the same company (or individual) that made the Seals Pennant as well. Many thanks to Marc for blowing up the spine and fish-tail tassels. I was just too lazy to hunt for the pics, although I know they are buried somewhere within this gi-normous thread.

Which, by the way, has now exceeded 2,000 posts! Rob is 'da Man

[thetahat]

For what it’s worth, here’s a 1910s Athletics pennant, unquestionably vintage, with horizontal stitching at the top and bottom of the strip. (Also three sets of tassels, tucked behind.)

[thetahat]

Here’s another, same era, like the other one everything is stitched (no silk screening). Odd size (9” by 35”) ... but with same stitching on spine.

[ooo-ribay]

Another thought on that Red Sox pennant.....the description was very vague. Other than a questionable “vintage” in the title, there were no out and out misrepresentations. I think the seller knew he had a newer item but two bidders convinced themselves otherwise.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Another thought on that Red Sox pennant.....the description was very vague. Other than a questionable “vintage” in the title, there were no out and out misrepresentations. I think the seller knew he had a newer item but two bidders convinced themselves otherwise.

A very common MO on eBay these days, unfortunately.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

That is a bizarre pennant, with the “backwards” lettering. Cool, that it has a maker that I don’t think any of us (especially Domer05) are familiar with.

Ah, DeMar Mfg. Co. I did a little research on this company a few months ago when I was writing that piece on Trench Mfg. Co. because both were Buffalo, NY based.

DeMar actually pre-dates Trench. I found some references to their existence as a felt novelty maker as early as 1915, or five years before Trench was founded. In 1917 they relocated from 170 Oak St. to 270 N. Division St. As far as I know the two companies were never related.

I've seen maybe a half dozen or so pennants bearing their label. All were travel/souvenir pennants, typically with a city name sewn across them--and, from spine to tip, I might add.

For that reason, for better or worse, I am fairly confident this was not sold as a Pirates baseball pennant. But, man it'd look cool when surrounded by some Pirates memorabilia....

This particular style, where the lettering goes from tip to spine, was offered by DeMar and other manufacturers of the day. It doesn't seem like it was very popular. (Unless maybe the consumer was dyslexic?) But, you will find this style offered in vintage felt novelty catalogues from that era. Here's an example of one, designated as "R-1", offered by the Arthur Mfg. Co. in Lowville, NY ca. 1925:

[perezfan]

Some more great research... many thanks!

[KrenBats]

Picked this up yesterday at an antique show. I ended up going late so expectations were low. At the last table, I saw a pile of old pennants, mostly college and points of interest. From the what I can tell, this is a 1910 Kalamazoo Kazoos minor league pennant from the Southern Michigan League. Pennant is big 14x34 inches. Does anyone have any info on this? Really couldn’t find much.

[ooo-ribay]

Very cool Kazooz pennant. Are you convinced it’s vintage? It looks almost to good to be true, although I can’t really imagine anyone doing repros of the Southern Michigan League.

[KrenBats]

There are some condition issues, with a small hole underneath So Mich League and there are pin holes. The felt is soft and thick. Overall the condition is really good. Would seem odd that someone repro’ed it. Any signs to look for?

[cincicards]

Forgot I had this pennant:

central ass.jpg

photo5.jpg

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by KrenBats

There are some condition issues, with a small hole underneath So Mich League and there are pin holes. The felt is soft and thick. Overall the condition is really good. Would seem odd that someone repro’ed it. Any signs to look for?

It’s probably legit. It seems to be in fantastic shape for something over 100 years old. Congrats!

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Some more great research... many thanks!

Found a little more info on DeMar Mfg. Co....

DeMar appears to have incorporated in 1911. It was founded in Buffalo, NY by Clifford E. DeMar, Elizabeth A. Winship, and Jessamine M. Davis. When it first opened it was located at 109 Oak St. inside the H.D. Taylor Building, a much larger manufacturer of automotive components.

In those early days they were having trouble finding sewing machine operators and routinely advertised in the classifieds for such labor.

By 1914 Clifford DeMar apparently skipped town, leaving some of his creditors (perhaps even Ms. Winship and Davis) high and dry. Back then there were no credit bureaus like Experian. There were, however, "credit men" whose job it was to keep track of debtors in their area and publish their names in annual publications, such as the Bulletin of National Association of Credit Men. Mr. DeMar's name appears in both the 1914 and 1915 editions of the above publication as a missing debtor. Such notoriety was intended to warn others that men like him were too risky to lend money to.

But DeMar Mfg. Co. continued on without its namesake. In 1917 they were still making pennants and other novelty items. Evidently the company was doing well without Mr. DeMar, as they had moved out of the Taylor Building to some new digs up the street: first 170 Oak St; then 270 N. Division St.

It doesn't look like the company survived the Great Depression. And, it seems their pennants were limited to travel and collegiate pennants only.

[thetahat]

Really enjoying these minor league pennants ... here’s one of my favorites ... does anyone recognize the graphic (besides the bison head)?

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by KrenBats

Picked this up yesterday at an antique show. I ended up going late so expectations were low. At the last table, I saw a pile of old pennants, mostly college and points of interest. From the what I can tell, this is a 1910 Kalamazoo Kazoos minor league pennant from the Southern Michigan League. Pennant is big 14x34 inches. Does anyone have any info on this? Really couldn’t find much.

That’s a nice pennant. Is there a tag on the back?

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Really enjoying these minor league pennants ... here’s one of my favorites ... does anyone recognize the graphic (besides the bison head)?

Looks like Trench recycled their Fenway Park artwork for Offerman Stadium!

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Looks like Trench recycled their Fenway Park artwork for Offerman Stadium!

Yep! Exact same graphic as Red Sox’ Fenway.

[KrenBats]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

That’s a nice pennant. Is there a tag on the back?

If there was a tag, it is no longer there.

[bocca001]

On the new side for this thread... I recently picked up two less common 1981 49ers pennants. You have to laugh a bit at the Western Division Champions pennant. It is as if they did not expect to win any playoff games and were just really excited about winning the divsion. They had been pretty bad at the end of the 1970s, so I get it. It must not have had a very long shelf life, as NFC Champions and Super Bowl Champions pennants followed over the next few weeks (some in great number)

I've also posted pics of two 1981 49ers pennants that I am still chasing (if anyone happens to have them)

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by bocca001

On the new side for this thread... I recently picked up two less common 1981 49ers pennants. You have to laugh a bit at the Western Division Champions pennant. It is as if they did not expect to win any playoff games and were just really excited about winning the divsion. They had been pretty bad at the end of the 1970s, so I get it. It must not have had a very long shelf life, as NFC Champions and Super Bowl Champions pennants followed over the next few weeks (some in great number)

I've also posted pics of two 1981 49ers pennants that I am still chasing (if anyone happens to have them)

Funny...I almost bought that 1981 NFC West Champs pennant last week. There's one for the Bengals that year too so I'm wondering if they made those for the Super Bowl participants. I haven't seen any other teams from 1981.

There is a similar Eagles pennant from 1980 (Super Bowl participant that year) but I don't think I've seen one for their opponent, the Oakland Raiders.

Your NFC Champs pennant if very cool and very rare. But the roster pennant you pictured is near impossible. I've had that one my radar for years and have never seen one.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by KrenBats

Picked this up yesterday at an antique show. I ended up going late so expectations were low. At the last table, I saw a pile of old pennants, mostly college and points of interest. From the what I can tell, this is a 1910 Kalamazoo Kazoos minor league pennant from the Southern Michigan League. Pennant is big 14x34 inches. Does anyone have any info on this? Really couldn’t find much.

Great Kazooz Pennant! Really nice Antique Show Find, and possibly a lone survivor.

Thought you might find it interesting that the same leaping Fielder image was used for an early Teens White Sox Pennant. Here's one from my collection that has the same Fielder, but in color and with a Baseball coming towards his glove. This pennant is oversized as well. Enjoy!

[bocca001]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Funny...I almost bought that 1981 NFC West Champs pennant last week. There's one for the Bengals that year too so I'm wondering if they made those for the Super Bowl participants. I haven't seen any other teams from 1981.

There is a similar Eagles pennant from 1980 (Super Bowl participant that year) but I don't think I've seen one for their opponent, the Oakland Raiders.

Your NFC Champs pennant if very cool and very rare. But the roster pennant you pictured is near impossible. I've had that one my radar for years and have never seen one.

Thanks for letting the division champs pennant fall to me. I like the combination of it being relatively rare and relatively cheap. It did get shipped as pennant oragami, which was a bit of a bummer. At least it did not cost much.

Maybe someone with the roster pennant will see that both you and I want it and will put one (or two) up for sale.

[KrenBats]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Great Kazooz Pennant! Really nice Antique Show Find, and possibly a lone survivor.

Thought you might find it interesting that the same leaping Fielder image was used for an early Teens White Sox Pennant. Here's one from my collection that has the same Fielder, but in color and with a Baseball coming towards his glove. This pennant is oversized as well. Enjoy!

Thanks for posting. That pennant is amazing. Is there a tag on the back? Guessing it could have been made by the same company. Also, did you get it professionally framed? Thinking that’s my only choice as it won’t fit in the standard pennant sleeves.

[perezfan]

It came framed, from an auction house. I have not taken it apart to see if there is a tag on the reverse, but would guess there most likely is.

I have framed all of my oversized pennants for that very reason... no manufactured sleeves/covers will fit!

[ooo-ribay]

Someone (Mark?) said those standard frames made to hold (3) 8x10’s work for pennants, when you throw away the mat. That may be standard 12x30 pennants, though.

[sphere and ash]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Great Kazooz Pennant! Really nice Antique Show Find, and possibly a lone survivor.

Thought you might find it interesting that the same leaping Fielder image was used for an early Teens White Sox Pennant. Here's one from my collection that has the same Fielder, but in color and with a Baseball coming towards his glove. This pennant is oversized as well. Enjoy!

The fielder is Frank Chance, based on an image by Francis P. Burke.

[sphere and ash]

Here is Frank Chance. The image is from either 1901, 1902, or 1904.

[perezfan]

Paul:
That is awesome information... very cool that the portrayal is Frank Chance. Many thanks for that info!

Rob:
That's right.... the Aaron Bros. Frames that hold three 8 X 10s horizontally, work great for most standard size pennants. And while the 36" length sometimes works for oversized pennants, the 13" width always falls a bit short of accommodating the height.

[perezfan]

I won nothing, but there were some big prices realized on pennants in last night's Lelands Auction. Really strong competition for most pennants (of which there were many...)

But this one really caught my eye.... Over $12,000 for this All Star Pennant...

https://auction.lelands.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=90401


I bet the consignor treats himself to a nice dinner tonight!

[Duluth Eskimo]

Wow. I was surfing through prices realized for items I was interested in, but didn’t see that. I have not seen that pennant before, but that price is crazy. Obviously someone is happy (other than Josh) to have won it and sold it. Leland’s always has good variety of stuff from all sports and gets good action.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

Wow. I was surfing through prices realized for items I was interested in, but didn’t see that. I have not seen that pennant before, but that price is crazy. Obviously someone is happy (other than Josh) to have won it and sold it. Leland’s always has good variety of stuff from all sports and gets good action.

Those prices were all through the roof! $500+ for the Dodgers bum pennant ... that has been repaired??? Over a grand for the not-uncommon ‘51 ASG pennant? Wow

[erikc21]

I have been finding more football than baseball lately for some reason. These are two of my more recent pick-ups!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by erikc21

I have been finding more football than baseball lately for some reason. These are two of my more recent pick-ups!

The Packers is fantastic!

[Duluth Eskimo]

Erik,
Those are both great pennants. That packers one would bring big $

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

Erik,
Those are both great pennants. That packers one would bring big $

Especially since they didn't win the Championship in 1960.

Despite this "imperfection", I'd be happy to take it off your hands Erik.

[Hankphenom]

Love the 1930s artwork on the Packers pennant, but it's strange they used that.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Especially since they didn't win the Championship in 1960.

I don’t think they had a #32, either.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I don’t think they had a #32, either.

and they didn't wear leather helmets in 1960. Wow...Quality control took the day off on this one.

[bocca001]

I was wondering what people think about the possibility of the attached pennant being a Houston Astros pennant. It has been listed on ebay a few times without anyone buying, so I don't think I am outing anything.

Argument for Astros: see the attached picture of one of the Astros hats from 1965 spring training. The star on the hat is a pretty close match. And many other Astros logos have a star (often with something over it). So, star = Astros is not totally out there. And I've never seen a star like this associated with the university of Houston.

Argument against Astros: It doesn't say Astros anywhere. Texas is the lone star state, so something with a single star from Texas doesn't have to mean Astros.

I have seen this pennant wtih red felt and black felt. Not Astros colors, but there are a lot of Houston Colt 45s pennants with red or black felt.

I'm curious to hear what people think.

[perezfan]

Great question....

This one could truly go either way. I tend to stay away from this generic type, just because I like to KNOW that it's baseball-related. But it could indeed be an Astros Pennant.

50/50 in my book.

[Fballguy]

I'd lean not Astros. The star in circle logo is seen all over Texas and to me the circle is too prominent in the pennant to be associated with the Astros. Did they ever have a logo with a circle that thick?

[Duluth Eskimo]

I have always believed that is an Astros pennant. I believe I had this same conversation with Ron Cunningham who is a pennant dealer from Texas and I think he said it was a logo they used their first year. You don’t see it very often, but I also have that pennant. Obviously it could go either way, but I trusted the info I got and seeing the photo you’ve shown it makes me believe even more this is true.

[ooo-ribay]

I don't know, one way or the other, on that Houston pennant but the font reminds me of this one. Do you know if it's full or 3/4 size? Plus, I would expect a "travel pennant" to have some local attractions on it. Like Mark, I'm 50/50 on it.

[Fballguy]

I'm 60/40 it's a city pennant. Then again, I tend to side on travel pennant when there's no team name or graphic related to the sport.

[mrkrab]

[ooo-ribay]

Gotta find a photo match from a game....