Hey, pennant guys

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by gradedcollectibles10

Even though it has seen better days...I think it’s very cool. I have only seen 2 others in this style. Does anyone know if its one of the tougher to find ones?

Don’t know, but Fballguy knows how to “revive” something like that...

[gradedcollectibles10]

Would def to hear more about the reviving process.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by gradedcollectibles10

Even though it has seen better days...I think it’s very cool. I have only seen 2 others in this style. Does anyone know if its one of the tougher to find ones?

That particular Brooklyn pennant is very tough to find. I believe it was made by Trench Mfg. Co., who manufactured many of their pennants in the early to mid-1950s using that same Ebbets Field facade artwork.

Most of the Brooklyn pennants by Trench from this era lack any date, so it's tough to tell whether a Brooklyn pennant marked "National League Champions" came from '52, '53, '55, or '56. But since this one clearly celebrates them as "World Champs" we know it came from '55. Which, makes it very special to Brooklyn collectors.

And, of the few 1955 championship pennants made, I'd say this variant is very rare.

I love it. Thanks for sharing.

[MCyganik]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Notfolk art. Pretty old, I would say (1930’s?).

That said, I think its small size and “plainess” would make it not all that desirable/valuable. Other guys know more than I....I live in mylittle Giants world.

Thanks for the input! I’ve just never seen a pennant so plain looking despite being so old... any other thoughts from anyone?

[Fballguy]

Some relatively rare 60's and 70's recent adds...

[erikc21]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Yeah, Erik, great pennants!



So......Mays played for the Millers and the hockey team was the Millers. What is it they “mill” in Minneapolis.

Haha! I assume it’s because of the breweries Minnesota had and the grain [being milled] used in the process, but I’m honestly guessing. Hamm’s, Grain Belt and Schmitt beer are located in the Twin Cities I think.

[erikc21]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Some relatively rare 60's and 70's recent adds...

Did you really purchase a basketball pennant?!

[bocca001]

Did it take anyone else two reads to figure out what that Browns pennant was trying to say? My first (automatic) thought was why would they say that they are "no one"?

[erikc21]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Did it take anyone else two reads to figure out what that Browns pennant was trying to say? My first (automatic) thought was why would they say that they are "no one"?

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Did it take anyone else two reads to figure out what that Browns pennant was trying to say? My first (automatic) thought was why would they say that they are "no one"?

That was my exact same thought when I bought the Redskins version of this pennant a year or so ago. Especially appropriate for the Browns...though they are a fun watch this season.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by erikc21

Did you really purchase a basketball pennant?!

Hahaha...I don't collect basketball pennants, but I collected that one for some reason.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Yeah, Erik, great pennants!

So......Mays played for the Millers and the hockey team was the Millers. What is it they “mill” in Minneapolis.

They used to mill almost all of the flour in Minneapolis. General Mills, Pillsbury, and many others were all here back in the day. There are more Fortune 500 headquarters in the Mpls area than one would expect

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

They used to mill almost all of the flour in Minneapolis. General Mills, Pillsbury, and many others were all here back in the day. There are more Fortune 500 headquarters in the Mpls area than one would expect

Good to know!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Just got in a 1925 Pottsville Maroons Pennant for the prewar auction. Having a hard time finding comps. Anyone have one? Will post image shortly.

[Fballguy]

$7,121 in 2012 at Lelands.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

$7,121 in 2012 at Lelands.

That's an unusually shaped pennant! Very cool, and while I don't expect mine to reach that rent district it is encouraging.

[perezfan]

Definitely hand-cut. Whether it was made that way or altered later-on, is impossible to tell. Super cool pennant, either way!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Ugh, now thinking mine might be a 60's reunion pennant. Got a long story about his dad getting it at a game when he was 15 in 1925. >sigh<

[erikc21]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

They used to mill almost all of the flour in Minneapolis. General Mills, Pillsbury, and many others were all here back in the day. There are more Fortune 500 headquarters in the Mpls area than one would expect

I like the beer angle better

[Domer05]

I just posted some new content on my BLOG that many of you may enjoy. First, as mentioned earlier, I did some follow-up research on Trench and discovered a whole bunch of pre-1950s baseball and football pennants attributable to them. When I first wrote that piece, I was under the impression they didn't get into professional sports pennants until the mid-1950s or so. That proved not to be the case. Look for updates in the baseball and football sub-headings of that post. I also updated the maker's mark section at the end to include a sub-section on distinctive artwork unique to Trench

Have a look: https://pennantfever.weebly.com/blog.../trench-mfg-co.

Second, I just posted a whole new piece dedicated to ADFLAG. I tried to maintain the same format as used with prior posts; however, based on your feedback, I added more pennant pictures; and, a team library, dedicated to certain teams ADFLAG was especially involved with. Like the Trench post, I also added a distinctive artwork sub-section. You can find this piece here: https://pennantfever.weebly.com/blog...tising-flag-co

I hope you all enjoy it.

[ooo-ribay]

FANTASTIC stuff, Kyle! You should do a book. I lament the fact that Paul Muchinsky’s pinback book kind of stands alone when it comes to research and completeness of a particular collecting interest. It is a joy to learn from your research!

[ooo-ribay]

I did notice one thing in your Trench info that I have to take exception to. You mention that the left handed batter in front of a moon-like baseball "was always monochromatic." I have many pennants where he is multi colored. The third pennant shows a monochromatic batter but with different text. The forth pennant shows our guy plopped into Candlestick Park.

[bocca001]

Good grief, Rob. Just when I think I know about all of the Giants pennants, you add something new (to me). I don't think you've ever posted the one with Candlestick that says "National League Champions." Pretty cool.

[perezfan]

Kyle...

Those write-ups were fantastic. Thanks for sharing all of your vast research and insights. It's helped me to appreciate and understand this wonderful segment of the hobby to an even greater extent than before.

Great work!

[Fballguy]

Great read over coffee this morning...Still need to go through my pennants and search for tags and maker marks. But thanks to your research, I have a much better idea of who made a lot of my pennants. Particularly interesting is the slight variations made by competing companies. I've got a few of those I've been wondering about. Will try to post some pics to get your thoughts.

Do you know who made the AFL/NFL single bar face mask helmet pennants of the mid-60s to early 70's? Was that Trench? There are so many variations of those, I wondered if it was just one company making them. I know Canteen Corp has a set, but theirs look slightly different in design than the more commonly seen ones.

Originally Posted by Domer05

I just posted some new content on my BLOG that many of you may enjoy. First, as mentioned earlier, I did some follow-up research on Trench and discovered a whole bunch of pre-1950s baseball and football pennants attributable to them. When I first wrote that piece, I was under the impression they didn't get into professional sports pennants until the mid-1950s or so. That proved not to be the case. Look for updates in the baseball and football sub-headings of that post. I also updated the maker's mark section at the end to include a sub-section on distinctive artwork unique to Trench

Have a look: https://pennantfever.weebly.com/blog.../trench-mfg-co.

Second, I just posted a whole new piece dedicated to ADFLAG. I tried to maintain the same format as used with prior posts; however, based on your feedback, I added more pennant pictures; and, a team library, dedicated to certain teams ADFLAG was especially involved with. Like the Trench post, I also added a distinctive artwork sub-section. You can find this piece here: https://pennantfever.weebly.com/blog...tising-flag-co

I hope you all enjoy it.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Good grief, Rob. Just when I think I know about all of the Giants pennants, you add something new (to me). I don't think you've ever posted the one with Candlestick that says "National League Champions." Pretty cool.

Here's a couple more of that weird style. I'm sure you've seen the white one. I've also seen that one on green, blue and orange backgrounds.

[bocca001]

Thanks, Rob. I had no idea that there were so many variants of that pennant.

I recently picked up a variant of this 49ers Super Bowl pennant, with the "Pontiac Silverdome" line. Hadn't seen it before. With no NFL logo, I assume that these were unofficial/bootleg products, maybe sold near the stadium before the game. Or in the SF Bay Area at flea markets etc.

I also picked up two Giants mini pennants. Hadn't seen either before.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Thanks, Rob. I had no idea that there were so many variants of that pennant.

I recently picked up a variant of this 49ers Super Bowl pennant, with the "Pontiac Silverdome" line. Hadn't seen it before. With no NFL logo, I assume that these were unofficial/bootleg products, maybe sold near the stadium before the game. Or in the SF Bay Area at flea markets etc.

I also picked up two Giants mini pennants. Hadn't seen either before.

The black mini MAY be NYG. Not sure, but they used that “g” and I’m not sure SF ever did.

[perezfan]

I was thinking the same as Rob on that one... Looks like an NY Pennant.

On a different note, does anybody know who manufactured this one? (I'm borrowing the image from Matt Z's current eBay listing). From an artistic standpoint, I've always thought that this is one of the most ambitious pennants ever made. Lots going on visually, to say the least!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I was thinking the same as Rob on that one... Looks like an NY Pennant.

On a different note, does anybody know who manufactured this one? (I'm borrowing the image from Matt Z's current eBay listing). From an artistic standpoint, I've always thought that this is one of the most ambitious pennants ever made. Lots going on visually, to say the least!

Love the fog, over the hills!

[bocca001]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Love the fog, over the hills!

The bat at the end of the pennant looks like the bat at the end of these two. Kyle's blog post about Adflag having figures/images at the tip of the pennant (after the team name) made me wonder if these were Adflag, but it sounds like they may be too new. Does any other team have this same style? With the bat at the end?

[Domer05]

My impression is that the NFL single bar pennants were all made by Trench.

Also, as to Canteen Corp., I covered them in my Trench post. They were actually a concessionaire, not a pennant manufacturer. When you see their name on a pennant it is a concessionaire's mark rather than a maker's mark. And, this was a design element that, to the best of my knowledge, only Trench did (first with Sportservice, then ARA, then Canteen).

As some of the single bar helmet pennants have this concessionaire's mark, that seems to support the idea that Trench made these.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Domer05

My impression is that the NFL single bar pennants were all made by Trench.

Also, as to Canteen Corp., I covered them in my Trench post. They were actually a concessionaire, not a pennant manufacturer. When you see their name on a pennant it is a concessionaire's mark rather than a maker's mark. And, this was a design element that, to the best of my knowledge, only Trench did (first with Sportservice, then ARA, then Canteen).

As some of the single bar helmet pennants have this concessionaire's mark, that seems to support the idea that Trench made these.

Yes...Saw that. But the Canteen Corp pennants also have a different helmet on them compared to the usual single bar pennant. Do concessionaire's marks typically come with a unique design?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by perezfan

On a different note, does anybody know who manufactured this one? (I'm borrowing the image from Matt Z's current eBay listing). From an artistic standpoint, I've always thought that this is one of the most ambitious pennants ever made. Lots going on visually, to say the least!

The "fog over the hills" was also on the Inaugural pennant. You know, the one some lucky bastard just scored for $165.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

The "fog over the hills" was also on the Inaugural pennant. You know, the one some lucky bastard just scored for $165.

The bat too...albeit a little to the left.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Yes...Saw that. But the Canteen Corp pennants also have a different helmet on them compared to the usual single bar pennant. Do concessionaire's marks typically come with a unique design?

Hmmm, I didn't realize there were differences in the single bar helmet pennants. Nor can I think of any reason for varying the designs of the helmets for pennants made for Canteen or any other concessionaire.

Maybe Trench modified or updated the design over the few years they used single bar helmets?

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by bocca001

The bat at the end of the pennant looks like the bat at the end of these two. Kyle's blog post about Adflag having figures/images at the tip of the pennant (after the team name) made me wonder if these were Adflag, but it sounds like they may be too new. Does any other team have this same style? With the bat at the end?

I'm a little baffled as to who made these mystery Candlestick pennants. I have a few theories, but nothing I feel too strongly about at this time. Could have been Trench, based on the use of the "moon-lit batter" image on Rob's '62 pennant. Or, it's possible some other maker copied Trench's figure and inserted him on their Candlestick artwork.

One thing that stands out to me is the way the artist drew and painted the crowd. It almost looks like he/she used watercolors because the brush strokes appear very broad.

There's a Dodger pennant from ca. 1959 that seems to resemble these Candlestick ones in artwork, layout, etc. Note that the crowd is painted the same way: one color per seating section.

I'd love to know who made these!

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Hmmm, I didn't realize there were differences in the single bar helmet pennants. Nor can I think of any reason for varying the designs of the helmets for pennants made for Canteen or any other concessionaire.

Maybe Trench modified or updated the design over the few years they used single bar helmets?

You can see the differences in the Canteen picture below. There are no holes/snaps on the helmet giving it a plainer look and a skinnier one dimensional face mask. This is the typical image on a Canteen Corp pennant. The two pics above it are the standard single bar design that you see everywhere.

Interesting (to me anyway) that the top two have almost identical images, except the middle pennant has only 4 holes/snaps on the helmet...while the top has 5. Was that someone's way of making the image their own? Of the two, the top one is the newest...so in theory anyway would be the copycat.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Domer05

I'm a little baffled as to who made these mystery Candlestick pennants. I have a few theories, but nothing I feel too strongly about at this time. Could have been Trench, based on the use of the "moon-lit batter" image on Rob's '62 pennant. Or, it's possible some other maker copied Trench's figure and inserted him on their Candlestick artwork.

One thing that stands out to me is the way the artist drew and painted the crowd. It almost looks like he/she used watercolors because the brush strokes appear very broad.

There's a Dodger pennant from ca. 1959 that seems to resemble these Candlestick ones in artwork, layout, etc. Note that the crowd is painted the same way: one color per seating section.

I'd love to know who made these!

That is indeed a great question, and the Dodgers + Giants Pennants posted above appear to be made by the same mysterious company. I do know the following...

The Dodgers Pennant depicts the Coliseum. So it was made within the 1958 - 1961 range.

The Giants Pennant (with Cable Car towards the tip) was one that my Dad brought home to us in 1965. So the company responsible for both pennants was definitely producing these between 1961 - 65.

The paint on these pennants is different than Trench or AdFlag used. By nature, it is a thinner/cheaper/less durable looking paint. I think their process for applying the paint was different as well. And this "mystery company" seems to have used cloth exclusively, instead of the thicker classic felt material.

Attached is another Giants Pennant that my Dad brought home from the same game in 1965... he purchased it along with the Cable Car Pennant. This was the first pennant I ever owned, so I suppose the addiction started there. I wish I knew if he got it inside the stadium or from an outside vendor (I suspect the latter).

I've always though it was sort of a one-off, but it's easily possible that the same odd manufacturer produced this one as well.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Attached is another Giants Pennant that my Dad brought home from the same game in 1965... he purchased it along with the Cable Car Pennant. This was the first pennant I ever owned, so I suppose the addiction started there. I wish I knew if he got it inside the stadium or from an outside vendor (I suspect the latter).

I've always though it was sort of a one-off, but it's easily possible that the same odd manufacturer produced this one as well.

Lower left of pennants; official Giants merchandise.

[perezfan]

Interesting. So it was available via Mail Order AND at the Stadium!

[Fballguy]

Any thoughts on this one? It was part of a lot I picked up a while back. Approximately 8.5 x 25. Soft felt. I'm guessing early to mid 60s? Looks like it would be common but can't find one on Worthpoint.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Any thoughts on this one? It was part of a lot I picked up a while back. Approximately 8.5 x 25. Soft felt. I'm guessing early to mid 60s? Looks like it would be common but can't find one on Worthpoint.

It's early, as evidenced by these ladies at Seals Stadium in 1958. That said, I think its plainness hurts its value. Maybe 50 bucks on a good day?

[bocca001]

The way that the "i" is dotted (the tittle) is very similar to some of the other Giants pennants (maker unknown) that we have been discussing (I think it is cool. Let me know if it is available).

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

It's early, as evidenced by these ladies at Seals Stadium in 1958. That said, I think its plainness hurts its value. Maybe 50 bucks on a good day?

Great Pic! I love how formal they're dressed.

Is the gal on the left wearing a Seals cap?

[Fballguy]

Great provenance Rob. Thanks!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Great Pic! I love how formal they're dressed.

Is the gal on the left wearing a Seals cap?

It is a Seals cap. Many of the Giants were pictured in a Seals cap on their 1958 Topps cards. I think the Giants were late in finalizing their SF design.

[gradedcollectibles10]

Good Evening All,

Won this pennant a few days ago on eBay.
Not in great shape, but I have never seen this one before and can’t locate another one to reference it against.
It’s similar to the very rare 1963 LA pennant but has a few differences in terms of the placement of the word Dodgers and the bums clothing.
The graphic also is pretty much identical to the 1950’s extremely rare Mullins Close Shave Pin.

Any info/thoughts are welcome and appreciated.

[perezfan]

That's a great pickup, regardless of condition. NEVER seen that variation before. Gotta be ridiculously rare.

Nice acquisition!!

[ooo-ribay]

I'm not trying to make this the "Hey, (San Francisco Giants) pennant guys" thread...at least, no more than it already is ....but I love specific dating clues. Our educated guess would have been early-mid sixties for this pennant. Here's confirmation: