Hey, pennant guys

[bocca001]

Someone posted a link to video on the main page about a Boston Card show from 1988. At the end of the video, there is a picture of a pennant. Howley day at Fenway park. I guess it was from 1926 (or is it 1927?), honoring the coach of the St. Louis Browns.

https://rmyauctions.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=72263

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Someone posted a link to video on the main page about a Boston Card show from 1988. At the end of the video, there is a picture of a pennant. Howley day at Fenway park. I guess it was from 1926, honoring the coach of the St. Louis Browns.

https://rmyauctions.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=72263

Repco, ya think?

[Domer05]

Probably not by Repco. They seemed to have left the felt pennant business by the 1920s; perhaps sooner.

[ser1979]

My most recent pickup...

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ser1979

My most recent pickup...

You don't see that one every day. Great score.

[thetahat]

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[thetahat]

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[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by ser1979

My most recent pickup...

Very unusual! Unusual spine stitching, too.

The Tigers had some great pennants.

edit: glad I don’t collect Tigers. :P

[RaiderPennantGuy]

Does anyone do or know of anyone that does pennant repairs? I picked up this pennant for almost nothing and would like to try and restore it. Any ideas or recommendations? Thanks

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by RaiderPennantGuy

Does anyone do or know of anyone that does pennant repairs? I picked up this pennant for almost nothing and would like to try and restore it. Any ideas or recommendations? Thanks

Your going to have to find a black donor pennant from the same era/material. and either fuse the two together to give it a prosthetic tip or if you can cut precisely, puzzle piece it together and throw in a rigid holder or frame. It'll never be perfect again, but you can make it pretty difficult to tell.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Your going to have to find a black donor pennant from the same era/material. and either fuse the two together to give it a prosthetic tip or if you can cut precisely, puzzle piece it together and throw in a rigid holder or frame. It'll never be perfect again, but you can make it pretty difficult to tell.

Easy peasy.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Someone posted a link to video on the main page about a Boston Card show from 1988. At the end of the video, there is a picture of a pennant. Howley day at Fenway park. I guess it was from 1926 (or is it 1927?), honoring the coach of the St. Louis Browns.

https://rmyauctions.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=72263

I think it was 1927. The rear of the photo in that link is dated 1927. I also found this NY Times article from 1927 about Dan Howley Day.

[HankAaron755]

Originally Posted by ser1979

My most recent pickup...

Awesome find. Love the graphics.

[HankAaron755]

I’ll first state that I have no skin in the game by sharing these auction links. Just wanted to pass along in case there were any Red Sox fans that wanted to score some rare penants off a smaller auction site for hopefully a good price.

It appears they are from 1915 and 1916.

https://auctions.ejsauction.com/auct...ant_F474D8393C

https://auctions.ejsauction.com/auct...ant_AD44709A72

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by HankAaron755

I’ll first state that I have no skin in the game by sharing these auction links. Just wanted to pass along in case there were any Red Sox fans that wanted to score some rare penants off a smaller auction site for hopefully a good price.

It appears they are from 1915 and 1916.

https://auctions.ejsauction.com/auct...ant_F474D8393C

https://auctions.ejsauction.com/auct...ant_AD44709A72

Interested to hear what our experts say about these…

[Domer05]

The 1915 pennant was made by a technique called "Applied Felt Lettering." Simply put: the individual letters were likely cut by a dye press; then glued to the felt using rubber cement. This was done to cut down on the sewing needed to sew each letter on.

The reverse bears witness to this method: there's no evidence of stitching; and after 100+ years, the rubber cement has bled through the felt.

The 1916 pennant is really cool. If this maker made a companion pennant for the '16 NL champion Brooklyn Dodgers/Robins, I've never seen it.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

The 1915 pennant was made by a technique called "Applied Felt Lettering." Simply put: the individual letters were likely cut by a dye press; then glued to the felt using rubber cement. This was done to cut down on the sewing needed to sew each letter on.

The reverse bears witness to this method: there's no evidence of stitching; and after 100+ years, the rubber cement has bled through the felt.

The 1916 pennant is really cool. If this maker made a companion pennant for the '16 NL champion Brooklyn Dodgers/Robins, I've never seen it.

I may have the sister pennant to that Red Sox, although this is wider and the date and letters are stitched. I think I’ve seen a 1915 Red Sox that more closely resembles this but I can’t find it again ..

[Fballguy]

Picked up a very nice example of this Cubs pennant and it unexpectedly came with some cool provenance. I've seen this pennant attributed to the 1950s, but it clearly was still in circulation on May 14th, 1967 (took a little research to pinpoint the year).

Why can't all pennants come with a letter like this?

[ooo-ribay]

Nice! Dick wanted to get home so he wouldn’t have to put the top up on the car. LOL.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Nice! Dick wanted to get home so he wouldn’t have to put the top up on the car. LOL.

It's funny...A simple note, but I can visualize in detail everything in it.

[Domer05]

Dick also didn't want to get caught in rush hour traffic on the I-5 freeway!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Dick also didn't want to get caught in rush hour traffic on the I-5 freeway!

Typical D**ger fan. Arrive late; leave early.

[RaiderPennantGuy]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Your going to have to find a black donor pennant from the same era/material. and either fuse the two together to give it a prosthetic tip or if you can cut precisely, puzzle piece it together and throw in a rigid holder or frame. It'll never be perfect again, but you can make it pretty difficult to tell.

Thanks Rob. I do have a couple of donor pennants that match up very nicely. I would like to fuse the two together but from what I 've read, seems pretty complicated and difficult. I'll probably try to puzzle piece it together and toss it into a rigid holder.

[Domer05]

I just made these "dueling pennants" for the 2024 World Series. Read all about them on Pennant Factory, or click here:

https://pennantfactory.weebly.com/bl...-trench-mfg-co

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

I just made these "dueling pennants" for the 2024 World Series. Read all about them on Pennant Factory, or click here:

https://pennantfactory.weebly.com/bl...-trench-mfg-co

Beautiful, Kyle! Simply beautiful. Incredibly craftsmanship.

But was the forked tip ‘55 definitely made by Trench? I think it could be but there is also evidence that points elsewhere. I have it in both colors and the felt is noticeable thinner than what they used at the time. The ‘55 scroll pennants for both teams are cloth. The lettering seems different. But I will add that the normal sized ‘57 and ‘58 version with the Yankees and Braves use the same County Stadium graphic as known Trench.

Did you get more solid evidence from your interviews with Trench employees?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by RaiderPennantGuy

Thanks Rob. I do have a couple of donor pennants that match up very nicely. I would like to fuse the two together but from what I 've read, seems pretty complicated and difficult. I'll probably try to puzzle piece it together and toss it into a rigid holder.

There is a “fusing” process. Check out “felting” on youtube. I would say this would only work if your pennant is wool felt and not the newer synthetic crap.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Beautiful, Kyle! Simply beautiful. Incredibly craftsmanship.

But was the forked tip ‘55 definitely made by Trench? I think it could be but there is also evidence that points elsewhere. I have it in both colors and the felt is noticeable thinner than what they used at the time. The ‘55 scroll pennants for both teams are cloth. The lettering seems different. But I will add that the normal sized ‘57 and ‘58 version with the Yankees and Braves use the same County Stadium graphic as known Trench.

Did you get more solid evidence from your interviews with Trench employees?

Thanks Greg. Yeah, I was pretty happy with how these turned out.

I do believe Trench made the original this was inspired by. You're correct: there's a 1957 WS dueling pennant featuring a rendering of Milwaukee County Stadium that also appeared on many known Trench stadium pennants from that era. It didn't have a fringed spine; but it's clearly by the same maker. So, for me, I think that's pretty convincing evidence Trench made all these.

Tom Storm and I never discussed the '55 dueling pennant (or my pennant, for that matter). His dad didn't buy the company until the late 1950s, so it was before his time. I am certain he would have hated it. The fringed spine would have caused him fits!

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

There is a “fusing” process. Check out “felting” on youtube. I would say this would only work if your pennant is wool felt and not the newer synthetic crap.

I agree. I don't think that felting will work on the Raiders pennant. I think you'll need to cut your donor pennant so that it fits your Raider pennant like a puzzle. Then you could use some glue to secure a thin piece of fabric or plastic on the back to hold the 2 pieces together.

If you proceed, please share a photo of the results.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by Domer05

I just made these "dueling pennants" for the 2024 World Series. Read all about them on Pennant Factory, or click here:

https://pennantfactory.weebly.com/bl...-trench-mfg-co

Great job Kyle. I enjoyed reading the latest blog entry about the dueling pennants. On that subject, I've noticed that there's a lack of 2 team world series pennants (e.g. with both teams on the pennant) for some years.

Has anyone seen a 2-team World Series pennant for 1944, 1945, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1960, 1961? Taking 1960 as an example, I can find many examples of Yankees World Series pennants or Pirates World Series pennants but not any with both teams.

[UKCardGuy]

I came across these vintage photos today with some big a** pennants on display. Thought you guys might like to see them.

[bocca001]

Really cool, Gary. Wonder if these are the exact ones Greg had on his pool table?

Looks like the phots say Sports Specialities. Isn't that the name that goes with the concessionaire baseball logo (with the ss pattern for the ball stitches)? Or maybe that is a coincidence. Looks like the big pennants were used as displays to help sell the smaller stuff. Any other info about where the photos came from?

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Really cool, Gary. Wonder if these are the exact ones Greg had on his pool table?

Looks like the phots say Sports Specialities. Isn't that the name that goes with the concessionaire baseball logo (with the ss pattern for the ball stitches)? Or maybe that is a coincidence. Looks like the big pennants were used as displays to help sell the smaller stuff. Any other info about where the photos came from?

I was thinking that those might be the same ones that Greg showed. I don't have any more info on the origin of the photos and I haven't had a chance to research any info from the stamps on the back yet.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Really cool, Gary. Wonder if these are the exact ones Greg had on his pool table?

Looks like the phots say Sports Specialities. Isn't that the name that goes with the concessionaire baseball logo (with the ss pattern for the ball stitches)? Or maybe that is a coincidence. Looks like the big pennants were used as displays to help sell the smaller stuff. Any other info about where the photos came from?

Four of my six have grommets.

I’m really intrigued by these and Gary just unlocked a bit of the mystery. Amazing how scarce these are.

Also it appears that the pack of the photos read “Sports Personalities”. These are definitely large versions of the ASCOs. Unfortunately no Pilots or Brewers to pin down the year.

[Domer05]

Those oversized pennants look like the regular size ones offered by ASCO around 1969 or so.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Those oversized pennants look like the regular size ones offered by ASCO around 1969 or so.

Yes, exactly. They have the 1969 MLB trademark. But these were issued for a few years after.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Four of my six have grommets.

Also it appears that the pack of the photos read “Sports Personalities”.

Yes, it does say Sports Personalities. I wonder if it was a dinner for local athletes?

I can make out the following info on the back of the photos

Edited Sports Personalities
27670 Groesbeck Highway
Roseville, Michigan 48066

I've found a listing for a slide that proports to be from Edited Sports Personalities (Roseville, MI) https://www.ebay.com/itm/201304051653
I've also found a site that lists postcards printed by Edited Sports Personalities https://www.cardcow.com/search3.php?...0Personalities The address on the post card reads "Groespeck Hwy" but I'm guessing it was a typo???

I think we know the company on the back of the photos. I haven't been able to find any more info about them though.

[perezfan]

Looks like the Red Sox Pennants (Lots 17 and 18) went for $4K and $5K respectively. I'm assuming those prices were before the 18% BP was applied.

So $4,720 and $5,900... pretty strong prices for an obscure Auction House!

https://auctions.ejsauction.com/auct...GNY#F474D8393C

[Hankphenom]

[QUOTE=perezfan;2486010
So $4,720 and $5,900... pretty strong prices for an obscure Auction House!
[/QUOTE] And considering how far below most of their other results missed from the estimates (which they might think about bagging altogether if they can't do better than that!)

[ooo-ribay]

Obviously, the same company did these two picture pennants. My Giants has the WC, which Kyle identified as West Coast Concessionaires. Now, please refresh my (faltering) memory...was WC just a distributor, but not a maker? And both my Giants have the "cartoon font," which dates back to some Giants Seals Stadium pennants. So, are both the catoon font (and the USC pennant) by the same maker or did the picture pennant maker "borrow" that font? I get so confused!

[Domer05]

As far as I can tell, "WC" (West Coast Novelty) was just a a bay area concessionaire. From all the Giants and Golden Bears pennants I've seen bearing their mark, I'm confident Trench was the actual manufacturer.

This USC pennant was probably made by Trench. As it lacks the WC concessionaire's mark, it was probably purchased in southern California--not at Berkeley's California Memorial Stadium.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Domer05

As far as I can tell, "WC" (West Coast Novelty) was just a a bay area concessionaire. From all the Giants and Golden Bears pennants I've seen bearing their mark, I'm confident Trench was the actual manufacturer.

This USC pennant was probably made by Trench. As it lacks the WC concessionaire's mark, it was probably purchased in southern California--not at Berkeley's California Memorial Stadium.

Gotcha. Did ANY other team get the cartoon, bubble font?

[Domer05]

Don't think so.

[thetahat]

So this falls into the “only I give a **** about it” category, but this relatively modern pennant has been so hard to find. I have seen maybe 2 or 3 in 25+ years of collecting, I had one and it has considerable wear. This is pristine. Only need the Expos to complete a 1969 set in cloth.

[thetahat]

Domer … consider the pennants below. The top one is “Epstein”, correct? What about the bottom?

The bottom pennant has features that are shared by many others. I suspect it’s a NYC company, the same one that made the ‘55 and ‘56 two-team WS pennants with the Dodger cap.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

Great job Kyle. I enjoyed reading the latest blog entry about the dueling pennants. On that subject, I've noticed that there's a lack of 2 team world series pennants (e.g. with both teams on the pennant) for some years.

Has anyone seen a 2-team World Series pennant for 1944, 1945, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1960, 1961? Taking 1960 as an example, I can find many examples of Yankees World Series pennants or Pirates World Series pennants but not any with both teams.

I have not. The dueling scroll WS pennants are especially cool. I think these were made by WGN? I know of 1939, 1940, 1941, and 1947 with scrolls of both rosters.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

So this falls into the “only I give a **** about it” category, but this relatively modern pennant has been so hard to find. I have seen maybe 2 or 3 in 25+ years of collecting, I had one and it has considerable wear. This is pristine. Only need the Expos to complete a 1969 set in cloth.

I get it.

The Giants with ball(s) orbiting the cap are rare, but I think there are many Phillies with this motif. Correct? So, is the rarity the cloth, the font or a combination of everything? Do all the cloth ones have the 1969 MLB mark? If so, could you please post the Giants….because I don’t have one with that mark. At this very moment, I’m too lazy to see if either of my two orbiting ball(s) pennants is cloth.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I get it.

The Giants with ball(s) orbiting the cap are rare, but I think there are many Phillies with this motif. Correct? So, is the rarity the cloth, the font or a combination of everything? Do all the cloth ones have the 1969 MLB mark? If so, could you please post the Giants….because I don’t have one with that mark. At this very moment, I’m too lazy to see if either of my two orbiting ball(s) pennants is cloth.

It’s the specific “combination”, most notably how the team name is displayed. Dodgers pennant is similar. The “orbiting ball” logo was the Phillies official logo for many years so it appears on many Trench versions. This is from the ASCO series. Made in ‘69 and presumably ‘70 in cloth, and for a few years after in thick felt, then stiff felt, where they were also marked with other trademarks (which Domer knows better) … “Vet”, etc.

The Indians from this series is white, with a 1969 MLB stamp, and blue with a 1970 stamp. Angels also has a 1970 stamp. All of the cloth versions have the dated MLB, but only some of the felt.

The Giants from this series is extremely rare in cloth, and the only team with one-color print. I think the “orbiting ball” Giants version you mention was made by some unknown company which did it for all teams.

[bocca001]

Here is the rare Giants cloth pennant from the series, followed by all of the subsequent versions that are not cloth. I just noticed that the stitches on the bottom pennant go in the opposite direction and the placement of Giants in the ball is different as well.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Domer … consider the pennants below. The top one is “Epstein”, correct? What about the bottom?

The bottom pennant has features that are shared by many others. I suspect it’s a NYC company, the same one that made the ‘55 and ‘56 two-team WS pennants with the Dodger cap.

Admittedly, your two pennants present a problem (for me). I do think the top/blue one is by Epstein. The bottom/polychromatic one ... I really don't know. Sure looks like the Epstein one--or was the artwork just stolen by some other pennant maker? If so ... was that pennant maker ... Trench?

Or, did Epstein continue making pennants well into the 1950s; and, finally venture into polychromatic designs, as others had begun doing?

Here's another possibility: did Epstein, which offered much more than pennants by the mid-century, begin outsourcing their pennant production to some external supplier? If so ... what if that company was Trench?

Below is the WS dueling pennant you referenced. Sure looks like it could be traced to Epstein--but, it has tassels, which Epstein seemed to have dropped by the 1950s.

Bottom line: We need more information on Epstein.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Admittedly, your two pennants present a problem (for me). I do think the top/blue one is by Epstein. The bottom/polychromatic one ... I really don't know. Sure looks like the Epstein one--or was the artwork just stolen by some other pennant maker? If so ... was that pennant maker ... Trench?

Or, did Epstein continue making pennants well into the 1950s; and, finally venture into polychromatic designs, as others had begun doing?

Here's another possibility: did Epstein, which offered much more than pennants by the mid-century, begin outsourcing their pennant production to some external supplier? If so ... what if that company was Trench?

Below is the WS dueling pennant you referenced. Sure looks like it could be traced to Epstein--but, it has tassels, which Epstein seemed to have dropped by the 1950s.

Bottom line: We need more information on Epstein.

“we,” meaning you. Get on it.

While you’re at it, I’m still waiting for your ABCO(?) write up.