Hey, pennant guys

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Well, that moonlight batter must have been playing for the Dodgers in the 1940s. I think he got traded to the Phillies sometime in the 1950s (right Greg? I think there are Phillies versions) and then apparently finished his career with the SF Giants.

Yep here’s the Hello Donny banquet pic again, with Phillies moonlit batter, 1963-64 (Colt 45s pennant peeking out in upper right).

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I have no reason to disagree, but it’s weird that there doesn’t seem to be a NY Giants version. At least not that I’ve ever seen…

I’m suspecting NYC because of the player pennants. Just an educated guess.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Yep here’s the Hello Donny banquet pic again, with Phillies moonlit batter, 1963-64 (Colt 45s pennant peeking out in upper right).

If you would like six original phots of that banquet, my buddy candlestickdandy has them on ebay. Search “fresno” in his store. Make him an offer. Tell him ooo-ribay sent you.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

If you would like six original phots of that banquet, my buddy candlestickdandy has them on ebay. Search “fresno” in his store. Make him an offer. Tell him ooo-ribay sent you.

Just checked them out … wild! I just need to know who the hell Donny is …

[thetahat]

Not vintage

https://www.ebay.com/itm/26624115848...cX8YQ&LH_BIN=1

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

If you would like six original phots of that banquet, my buddy candlestickdandy has them on ebay. Search “fresno” in his store. Make him an offer. Tell him ooo-ribay sent you.

The weird thing about the pennant behind the guy at the podium, it’s a 1963 WS pennant with the ‘3’ changed to an ‘8’ …

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

The weird thing about the pennant behind the guy at the podium, it’s a 1963 WS pennant with the ‘3’ changed to an ‘8’ …

So, where's the SF Giants pennant?? I always assumed it was the one hanging behind the speaker.

Why would a banquet hosted by SF Giants personnel include two Dodger pennants--and no Giant pennant?

Perhaps "Donny" wasn't into the black/orange?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

So, where's the SF Giants pennant?? I always assumed it was the one hanging behind the speaker.

Why would a banquet hosted by SF Giants personnel include two Dodger pennants--and no Giant pennant?

Perhaps "Donny" wasn't into the black/orange?

There are 8 pennants fully pictured, a tiny bit of the Colt 45s, and I’m guessing that the Giants is next to that out of sight. Look how they are arranged. Assuming symmetry, there is one more pennant to the right of the Colts and that would be the Giants.

[Fballguy]

If anyone is interested in selling their pennant collection, Super Break Sports (whoever that is) is buying.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/30492422672...mis&media=COPY

[Vintagedeputy]

Hi all….I’m an occasional pennant collector (and not a Tigers fan) but I recently saw this one online so I grabbed it. I like the vintage stuff, no mater what team. Thought you guys may enjoy seeing it.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Hi all….I’m an occasional pennant collector (and not a Tigers fan) but I recently saw this one online so I grabbed it. I like the vintage stuff, no mater what team. Thought you guys may enjoy seeing it.

Nice one. Team picture pennants don’t get the love they deserve. They took extra care to make. I wish I had another wall to dedicate to these.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Nice one. Team picture pennants don’t get the love they deserve. They took extra care to make. I wish I had another wall to dedicate to these.

They are pretty cool and unique.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Nice one. Team picture pennants don’t get the love they deserve. They took extra care to make. I wish I had another wall to dedicate to these.

The “sash” is a nice embellishment, as well.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

The “sash” is a nice embellishment, as well.

Agreed. It’s definitely a different kind of pennant.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

The “sash” is a nice embellishment, as well.

Domer has a nice interview with a Trench employee who explained how it was a real pain in the butt to assemble the picture pennants. They certainly do require extra care. Along with the mystery of the few teams that don’t have stadium pennants … teams that never had team pic pennants. Colt 45s/Astros and Cubs come to mind. A few others have them for 1-2 years (Senators, Giants?), others run the whole decade. Phillies have at least 13 different ones from 1960-69.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Nice one. Team picture pennants don’t get the love they deserve. They took extra care to make. I wish I had another wall to dedicate to these.

+1

It's a nice Tigers pennant. I've been picking up team photo pennants too. I think they're really underrated and a great snapshot in time.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

+1

It's a nice Tigers pennant. I've been picking up team photo pennants too. I think they're really underrated and a great snapshot in time.

The Tigers have the best pennants, period. I’ve seen three different colors of 1968 Tigers pic pennants, I think one even states that it is a spring training roster.

Trench obviously mastered the team picture pennant. ASCO has some nice ones, too. The unknown (what I think is) NYC company just stapled the picture right on. The 1963 Mets pennant is an example and lots of Yankees.

[thetahat]

This is currently for sale on eBay. Interesting that it’s 1973 and cloth, when cloth has all but gone obsolete. Which raises the question .. has Trench made any team pic pennants on felt? Maybe the Dodgers had one? Seems to me they are all Cloth. I guess maybe the glue holds better I dunno

[Domer05]

The Dodgers photo pennants seem to be made from felt.

[MK]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Domer has a nice interview with a Trench employee who explained how it was a real pain in the butt to assemble the picture pennants. They certainly do require extra care. Along with the mystery of the few teams that don’t have stadium pennants … teams that never had team pic pennants. Colt 45s/Astros and Cubs come to mind. A few others have them for 1-2 years (Senators, Giants?), others run the whole decade. Phillies have at least 13 different ones from 1960-69.

The Cubs could not have photo pennants because they didn’t take team photos for many years. I think Mr Wrigley was just too cheap to pay a photographer.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Domer has a nice interview with a Trench employee who explained how it was a real pain in the butt to assemble the picture pennants. They certainly do require extra care. Along with the mystery of the few teams that don’t have stadium pennants … teams that never had team pic pennants. Colt 45s/Astros and Cubs come to mind. A few others have them for 1-2 years (Senators, Giants?), others run the whole decade. Phillies have at least 13 different ones from 1960-69.

There's at at least one Astros Team Photo pennant thought the photo is silk screened rather than a photo glued to the pennant). It was from 1978.

The Tigers have some great photo pennants but my favorite team photo pennant is the 74 Red Sox.

I've catalogued 50 different team photo pennants (though I know there's many that I've missed). This is the breakdown:

• LA Dodgers 13 (1960, 1962, 1963 - 4 variations, 1965 - 2 variations, 1966, 1967, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978 - 2 variations)
• Cincinnati Reds 9 (1960, 1961 - 3 variations, 1967, 1973, 1975 - 2 variations, 1976
• Detroit Tigers 9 (1960, 1964, 1966, 1967, 1968 - 2 variations, 1969, 1971, 1972, 1973,
• Chicago White Sox 6 (1959 - 2 variations, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965)
• Baltimore Orioles 5 (1963, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970)
• Boston Red Sox 4 (1967, 1968, 1970, 1974(
• California Angels 1 (1963)
• Houston Astros 1 (1978)
• Kansas City Royals 1 (1980)

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

There's at at least one Astros Team Photo pennant thought the photo is silk screened rather than a photo glued to the pennant). It was from 1978.

The Tigers have some great photo pennants but my favorite team photo pennant is the 74 Red Sox.

I've catalogued 50 different team photo pennants (though I know there's many that I've missed). This is the breakdown:

• LA Dodgers 13 (1960, 1962, 1963 - 4 variations, 1965 - 2 variations, 1966, 1967, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978 - 2 variations)
• Cincinnati Reds 9 (1960, 1961 - 3 variations, 1967, 1973, 1975 - 2 variations, 1976
• Detroit Tigers 9 (1960, 1964, 1966, 1967, 1968 - 2 variations, 1969, 1971, 1972, 1973,
• Chicago White Sox 6 (1959 - 2 variations, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965)
• Baltimore Orioles 5 (1963, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970)
• Boston Red Sox 4 (1967, 1968, 1970, 1974(
• California Angels 1 (1963)
• Houston Astros 1 (1978)
• Kansas City Royals 1 (1980)

White Sox have three ‘59 versions: Red, White, Black. Red Sox is another team that didn’t have Trench pic pennants but did have Keezer and the one you show which I believe is ASCO.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

I've catalogued 50 different team photo pennants (though I know there's many that I've missed). This is the breakdown:

• Detroit Tigers 9 (1960, 1964, 1966, 1967, 1968 - 2 variations, 1969, 1971, 1972, 1973

You can add 1970 to your Tigers list based on my photo above.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by MK

The Cubs could not have photo pennants because they didn’t take team photos for many years. I think Mr Wrigley was just too cheap to pay a photographer.

Interesting. I guess that explains why the Topps team cards always showed floating heads instead of the group pic …

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

White Sox have three ‘59 versions: Red, White, Black. Red Sox is another team that didn’t have Trench pic pennants but did have Keezer and the one you show which I believe is ASCO.

Actually, technically, this '74 Red Sox photo pennant is by Madaras. (Note the "M" maker's mark.) Their only year in business.

But, yeah, might as well be by ASCO, right...?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Actually, technically, this '74 Red Sox photo pennant is by Madaras. (Note the "M" maker's mark.) Their only year in business.

But, yeah, might as well be by ASCO, right...?

It sure looks like ASCO. The ‘VET’ pennants also look like ASCO. Did Madaras absorb ASCO or something?

[ooo-ribay]

I must have missed the identification of the "M" mark. Now, I know.

Here's the Giants' one photo pennant and their Madaras offering.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I must have missed the identification of the "M" mark. Now, I know.

Here's the Giants' one photo pennant and their Madaras offering.

What is on the back of the photo? Anything? Very unusual (and cool) design.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

What is on the back of the photo? Anything? Very unusual (and cool) design.

The photo is on the pennant…there is no cut out…thus, I can’t see the back.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

What is on the back of the photo? Anything? Very unusual (and cool) design.

The back of my 74 Red Sox Pennant is blank. I've found the same pennant on ebay and it's the same. It's a shame because I really like it when they have the player names on the back.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

The photo is on the pennant…there is no cut out…thus, I can’t see the back.

Very interesting. As is the “WC” near the upper left corner of the pic. Has that been discussed before? We need Domer to check in. Could this be ASCO/Button House? Mystery company? It is radically different than Trenches from that period.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Very interesting. As is the “WC” near the upper left corner of the pic. Has that been discussed before? We need Domer to check in. Could this be ASCO/Button House? Mystery company? It is radically different than Trenches from that period.

WC = West Coast Concessionaires, per Domer. Yes, this was discussed. I'm not sure whether the WC is seen on pennants of other West Coast teams.

As for the maker, I'm not sure I've ever considered it. Perhaps bocca has. The WC was also seen on the "stamped" 1962 pennant. I have an un-stamped version also with the WC but I have another without it (shown). That guy on those pennants was also seen on many of the Giants stadium pennants, along with the "cartoon font" of the 1962 picture pennant (but no WC). Same maker for all?

[bocca001]

I'm pretty sure that the WC came up in Kyle's conversation with the Trench guy, which makes it a high likelihood that they are Trench. I guess maybe WC could have had someone else make pennants for them?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

WC = West Coast Concessionaires, per Domer. Yes, this was discussed. I'm not sure whether the WC is seen on pennants of other West Coast teams.

As for the maker, I'm not sure I've ever considered it. Perhaps bocca has. The WC was also seen on the "stamped" 1962 pennant. I have an un-stamped version also with the WC but I have another without it (shown). That guy on those pennants was also seen on many of the Giants stadium pennants, along with the "cartoon font" of the 1962 picture pennant (but no WC). Same maker for all?

Those are awesome, Rob...

Also interesting is how the 2nd pennant has such different spine and tassels from the others.

[bocca001]

It took me some time to find this pennant (thanks, Erik). When I first saw it in Rob's collection, the colors/tassels made me think it was some kind of modern reproduction. But it is not. And it is tough to find.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Those are awesome, Rob...

Also interesting is how the 2nd pennant has such different spine and tassels from the others.

Yes it’s a cloth spine and cloth tassels … very rare for Trench … I will bet that the stitching is “doubled” like that of Ad Flag and Keezer. I’m sure there has to be a name for the type of stitch. There was a brief amount of time that Trench-appearing pennants were made like this. Here’s an example of one of mine with all the same characteristics that I once wondered might be a knock-off …

[thetahat]

null - double post

[bocca001]

I know this is not everyone's jam, but this pennant is hen's teeth rare. Super Bowl XVI bootleg that Oooribay helped me track down. Both beautiful and ugly at the same time. Pennant folk art. This was probably number 1.25 on my want list. Love the horrible helmet graphic and having all of the player names. I'm pretty sure it is from 1982.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

It sure looks like ASCO. The ‘VET’ pennants also look like ASCO. Did Madaras absorb ASCO or something?

See my post #5630 ... where I shared more than anyone would care to read about Madaras, Inc

Bottom line: Madaras was a short-lived pennant maker founded by ex-ASCO employees in Winona, MN after ASCO was sold to Campbell-Mithune. It was only around from 1973-74.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by bocca001

I'm pretty sure that the WC came up in Kyle's conversation with the Trench guy, which makes it a high likelihood that they are Trench. I guess maybe WC could have had someone else make pennants for them?

See my post #4847.

WC = West Coast Novelty Co. They ran concessions at several locations in the San Francisco Bay area, including California's Memorial Stadium in Berkeley. They never made pennants; and, as far as I can tell, all of their pennants were produced by Trench.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by bocca001

I know this is not everyone's jam, but this pennant is hen's teeth rare. Super Bowl XVI bootleg that Oooribay helped me track down. Both beautiful and ugly at the same time. Pennant folk art. This was probably number 1.25 on my want list. Love the horrible helmet graphic and having all of the player names. I'm pretty sure it is from 1982.

Super interesting how they modeled those names after the 1951 All Star Game pennant and '57-'58 Milwaukee Braves Pennants. That's a 24 - 31 year gap.... Someone must've had an amazing sense of history at the bootleg pennant factory!

https://keymancollectibles.com/penna...tarpennant.htm

http://www.insidetheparkcollectibles...-lot13864.aspx

[bocca001]

If they were a Giants fan too, they may have had this one in their collection. They must have copied the design from one of these. There is no way it is a coincidence.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by bocca001

If they were a Giants fan too, they may have had this one in their collection. They must have copied the design from one of these. There is no way it is a coincidence.

Nice.... I have always wanted that one, and never snagged one. Couldn't even find an image online. Is that one yours, Marc?

[bocca001]

I wish that was mine. It is somewhere on my wantlist. I know that Oooribay has one.

There was one for sale earlier this year at Hunt? It was more than I was willing to pay. There are two versions. One says world champions, the other pennant winners.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Domer05

See my post #5630 ... where I shared more than anyone would care to read about Madaras, Inc

Bottom line: Madaras was a short-lived pennant maker founded by ex-ASCO employees in Winona, MN after ASCO was sold to Campbell-Mithune. It was only around from 1973-74.

Page 113.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by bocca001

I know this is not everyone's jam, but this pennant is hen's teeth rare. Super Bowl XVI bootleg that Oooribay helped me track down. Both beautiful and ugly at the same time. Pennant folk art. This was probably number 1.25 on my want list. Love the horrible helmet graphic and having all of the player names. I'm pretty sure it is from 1982.

You can tell it's an authentic bootleg as it contains the requisite spelling error.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

You can tell it's an authentic bootleg as it contains the requisite spelling error.

And why is the A in Champions italicized?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Super interesting how they modeled those names after the 1951 All Star Game pennant and '57-'58 Milwaukee Braves Pennants. That's a 24 - 31 year gap.... Someone must've had an amazing sense of history at the bootleg pennant factory!

https://keymancollectibles.com/penna...tarpennant.htm

http://www.insidetheparkcollectibles...-lot13864.aspx

Mark: I’m not so sure this, like the ones you mention, is not an Ad Flag. They made pennants at least through the early 80s - I have a monstrous looking Pete Rose hitting streak pennant from ‘79 that I buried somewhere. I think I’ve seen an ‘82 Cardinals will all the tell tale signs.

Marc: can you show the stitching on the back? Ad Flag did a good tight stitch - will help to identify

[bocca001]

Here is the spine stitching from the 49ers 1982 pennant.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Here is the spine stitching from the 49ers 1982 pennant.

Not solid proof that it’s them, but it is consistent with Ad Flag. That + the known Ad Flag roster design seems like pretty strong evidence that it is them.

On a related note, Keezer (post 1950) and ASCO also stitched like this. It’s why they don’t suffer from loose threads.