Hey, pennant guys

[bocca001]

That Packers pennant is from a supper rare series of mini pennants, for both football and baseball (I admit that I could be wrong about having the same maker). I have only a pic of the 49ers and was lucky enough to get the SF Giants a few years ago.

I also have a Houston Oliers pennant from the series that is full size. I have never seen another. I remember thinking that these might be Keezer pennants given that the Houston Astros pennant is a Keezer pennant.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

Has anyone had any luck finding pennant poly sleeves? I have plenty of toploaders, looking for sleeves. Large quantities that is

Ultra Pro Sleeves have been MIA for many months. Can't even find them on ebay for $35 a pack.

[ooo-ribay]

Not usually a fan of the mini’s, but those are all very nice!

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by bocca001

That Packers pennant is from a supper rare series of mini pennants, for both football and baseball (I admit that I could be wrong about having the same maker). I have only a pic of the 49ers and was lucky enough to get the SF Giants a few years ago.

I also have a Houston Oliers pennant from the series that is full size. I have never seen another. I remember thinking that these might be Keezer pennants given that the Houston Astros pennant is a Keezer pennant.

Great posts Marc...

I have a full-sized Pittsburgh Steelers from the same set, and it's the only example I've ever seen. Very similar to your Oilers.

Such an oddball (albeit attractive) set!

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by bocca001

That Packers pennant is from a supper rare series of mini pennants, for both football and baseball (I admit that I could be wrong about having the same maker). I have only a pic of the 49ers and was lucky enough to get the SF Giants a few years ago.

I also have a Houston Oliers pennant from the series that is full size. I have never seen another. I remember thinking that these might be Keezer pennants given that the Houston Astros pennant is a Keezer pennant.

Marc those are awesome. Love the Oilers especially.

[Chstrite]

Anyone have any extra Baseball All Star Pennants with player names featuring Brooks Robinson between 1960-1974 (I have 1966, 1966, 1971 and 1972). If so, let me know at Charles.strite@yahoo.com

[thetahat]

Pleased with this addition, got a good deal (cheap) on this oversized Yankee pennant 35.5 inches (pictured with a typical full-size), just about mint. Another just sold for a little more in auction in much worse condition. Gotta make a holder for it. It’s from that mystery NYC company we have yet to figure out …

[perezfan]

Nice Greg...

Never even knew that oversized Yankees pennant existed!

[Fballguy]

Never knew there was an oversized version of that Yankees pennant.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Pleased with this addition, got a good deal (cheap) on this oversized Yankee pennant 35.5 inches (pictured with a typical full-size), just about mint. Another just sold for a little more in auction in much worse condition. Gotta make a holder for it. It’s from that mystery NYC company we have yet to figure out …

The “holder” I made for my one over sized pennant is a cardboard back, wrapped in a huge piece of Saran Wrap I got at Papa Murphy’s Take n Bake pizza.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

The “holder” I made for my one over sized pennant is a cardboard back, wrapped in a huge piece of Saran Wrap I got at Papa Murphy’s Take n Bake pizza.

I tried something like that at first, cardboard back but with three pieced-together soft sleeves. Looked really cheesy. The poster toploaders work great, I’m all done mine now.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Nice Greg...

Never even knew that oversized Yankees pennant existed!

Thanks … I had it once before, faded and beat up. I wish we could figure out the company. One thing is clear: all their pennants are cloth and have weird spines … although I’m still not convinced they didn’t make the forked ‘55 WS pennant. Here are a few obvious ones from same maker (I only own the Mets and Dodgers);

[thetahat]

So to summarize the known companies for vintage pro teams (missing any, Kyle?):

Trench
Keezer
Ad Flag
WGN
ASCO
Collegiate
(the maker of the above pennants)
(sliding runner BB/straight arm FB)
(grommet pennants, Midwest company?)
…?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

So to summarize the known companies for vintage pro teams (missing any, Kyle?):

Trench
Keezer
Ad Flag
WGN
ASCO
Collegiate
(the maker of the above pennants)
(sliding runner BB/straight arm FB)
(grommet pennants, Midwest company?)
…?

Isn’t there an ABCO?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Isn’t there an ABCO?

Hmmm I think we need Mr. Domer to check in on that.

There are other “series” of pennants of unknown maker, that share the same design and structure. Examples:

Oversized 1910s “B.B.C.” pennants (Red Sox just sold in REA)
Very oversized 1900-1910s with sewn leather graphic

I should also add that the 1951 NYG Cinderella Boys pennant comes from a maker that appears to be unique from those previously listed. There are others with same wide scroll and similar designs - again, Dodgers and Yankees, suggesting a NYC area company. Still think it would be cool to have a reference with pennants sorted by maker.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

So to summarize the known companies for vintage pro teams (missing any, Kyle?):

Trench
Keezer
Ad Flag
WGN
ASCO
Collegiate
(the maker of the above pennants)
(sliding runner BB/straight arm FB)
(grommet pennants, Midwest company?)
…?

My list of manufacturers in the Pennant Catalog that I've been assembling is as follows:

ABC Emblem and Pennant Co. (1251 Market Street, San Francisco)
AdFlag Manufacturing
AMCO Athletic Apparel Corp.
ASCO All Sports Co
Button House
Collegiate Mfg Co
Keezer
Madaras Inc.
Norsid Mfg Co
New York Pennant Co.
Reproduction Co.
Trench Mfg Co
W.C. Kern Co.
WGN Flag Co
Annin Flagmakers of New York, NY, a.k.a., A & Co. N.Y.
Wright & Ditson
Pacific Athletic Co., based in Gardena, CA

+ the Unknown manufacturer of the pennants above
+ sliding runner BB/straight arm FB
+ Grommet pennants

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

My list of manufacturers in the Pennant Catalog that I've been assembling is as follows:

ABC Emblem and Pennant Co. (1251 Market Street, San Francisco)
AdFlag Manufacturing
AMCO Athletic Apparel Corp.
ASCO All Sports Co
Button House
Collegiate Mfg Co
Keezer
Madaras Inc.
Norsid Mfg Co
New York Pennant Co.
Reproduction Co.
Trench Mfg Co
W.C. Kern Co.
WGN Flag Co
Annin Flagmakers of New York, NY, a.k.a., A & Co. N.Y.
Wright & Ditson
Pacific Athletic Co., based in Gardena, CA

+ the Unknown manufacturer of the pennants above
+ sliding runner BB/straight arm FB
+ Grommet pennants

Chicago Pennant Co. (ChiPenCo)
and
Gimbel's?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Chicago Pennant Co. (ChiPenCo)
and
Gimbel's?

Oh sure. I think with respect to Gimbels and a few others listed above, they may be “one team only” pennants. What does it look like if we limit to pennants made for most/all teams? I guess even Collegiate would drop off with only four known baseball pennants …

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

My list of manufacturers in the Pennant Catalog that I've been assembling is as follows:

ABC Emblem and Pennant Co. (1251 Market Street, San Francisco)
AdFlag Manufacturing
AMCO Athletic Apparel Corp.
ASCO All Sports Co
Button House
Collegiate Mfg Co
Keezer
Madaras Inc.
Norsid Mfg Co
New York Pennant Co.
Reproduction Co.
Trench Mfg Co
W.C. Kern Co.
WGN Flag Co
Annin Flagmakers of New York, NY, a.k.a., A & Co. N.Y.
Wright & Ditson
Pacific Athletic Co., based in Gardena, CA

+ the Unknown manufacturer of the pennants above
+ sliding runner BB/straight arm FB
+ Grommet pennants

Gary that’s a great list, thank you for posting it …

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Gary that’s a great list, thank you for posting it …

A couple of those made only a couple of pennants ever, IMO.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Isn’t there an ABCO?

Kyle mentioned he had another company profile coming for his blog. The name was something like ABCO. He said I had a few examples, including this one. Maybe the thin tassels are a characteristic? Note: even with the thin tasels, the one behind is not similar. It's the bat wielding Giant, Gothic font, player in the middle, ball at tip.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

A couple of those made only a couple of pennants ever, IMO.

That's very true. So far I've tracked 1,360 Pennants. Of these Trench is the most prolific producing 297 entries, followed by WGN (68), AdFlag (61) and Keezer (35).

There are a few more manufacturers that I should have included. This is the full list:

• A.G. Spalding Co.
• ABC Emblem & Pennant Co
• AdFlag
• AMCO
• Annin Flagmakers of New York, NY, a.k.a., A & Co. N.Y.
• ASCO
• Bloom Bros of Minneapolis
• Chicago Pennant Co.
• CMC
• Collegiate Mfg Co
• Ferguson Bakery
• Hanco
• Keezer
• Lowe and Campbell
• Norsid Mfg Co, Yonkers NY
• New York Pennant Co.
• Pacific Athletic Co.
• Red Ball Sales Company
• The Reproduction Co. of New York, NY
• Trench
• WGN
• Wincraft
• Wright & Ditson

• + the Unknown manufacturer of the pennants above
• + sliding runner BB/straight arm FB
• + Grommet pennants

Most of these have less than 10 pennants in the catalog.

It's been a while since I've published an updated version of the catalog. Here's the latest version: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FUg...ew?usp=sharing

If anyone has corrections/suggestions, I'd be grateful for them.

[matty39]

On the Ferguson blotter shown below it states that the bakery was giving away as premiums both large movie actor and baseball star pennants. Those pennants were produced by Bradford and company of St. Joseph, Michigan. Several years ago I picked up one of the large movie actor pennants which fortunately had it's ad on the back. Both are shown below. On your list you should probably cross out Ferguson and add Bradford and Co.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Kyle mentioned he had another company profile coming for his blog. The name was something like ABCO. He said I had a few examples, including this one. Maybe the thin tassels are a characteristic? Note: even with the thin tasels, the one behind is not similar. It's the bat wielding Giant, Gothic font, player in the middle, ball at tip.

That would be AMCO. I'll have more to say about them on my BLOG in 2022.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Hmmm I think we need Mr. Domer to check in on that.

There are other “series” of pennants of unknown maker, that share the same design and structure. Examples:

Oversized 1910s “B.B.C.” pennants (Red Sox just sold in REA)
Very oversized 1900-1910s with sewn leather graphic

I should also add that the 1951 NYG Cinderella Boys pennant comes from a maker that appears to be unique from those previously listed. There are others with same wide scroll and similar designs - again, Dodgers and Yankees, suggesting a NYC area company. Still think it would be cool to have a reference with pennants sorted by maker.

You have such a reference: pennantfever.weebly.com! I may not have posted any new content in a while, but I'm constantly updating the libraries for each maker as soon as new pennants are ID'd. If you haven't looked at my ADFLAG post in a few years, you'll see a few new pennants there. Same with WGN.

It's tough to keep up with Trench, however, because they made sooooo many pennants from 1940-70. They made a lot of different pennant series, too and each series generally included a pennant for all 16+ teams. Documenting them all would be quite an undertaking, so I just tried to include a few examples from each.

Oh, and the maker of the double-wide scroll pennants you reference? And, the BBC series maker? I have some answers to these questions ... but, you're gonna have to wait. New content in 2022 will answer these questions.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by matty39

On the Ferguson blotter shown below it states that the bakery was giving away as premiums both large movie actor and baseball star pennants. Those pennants were produced by Bradford and company of St. Joseph, Michigan. Several years ago I picked up one of the large movie actor pennants which fortunately had it's ad on the back. Both are shown below. On your list you should probably cross out Ferguson and add Bradford and Co.

Matty, great find! Always wondered who made those Ferguson promo minis!

I'm definitely familiar with this company. They made some Notre Dame championship banners from the 1929-30 seasons featuring a sewn label of theirs. According to some research I once did on them, they were founded by a guy named Fredrick LeRoy Bradford. He started the company in 1897 to produce advertising novelties and souvenir items in the resort town of St. Joseph, MI. In 1907 he began making felt pennants; and, he was one of the early pioneers to screen print his pennants. At one point Bradford was considered "the largest maker of felt pennants"; but, it's unclear when that may have been true (or if that was ever an accurate claim). The company was still in business by 1960, well after Bradford's death; and, they still listed felt pennants as something they manufactured, at that point. By then, however, they were well invested in a variety of other advertising-related products, so who knows how much felt pennants played into things.

But, other than the Ferguson Bakery series, did they ever make any pro baseball pennants in any significant quantities? If they did, they likely stopped labeling their pennants sometime after 1930. Who knows? They could be our mystery maker responsible for the sliding runner and stiff arming footballer pennants.... (I promise no clear answers on this mystery in 2022, regrettably.)

Or, perhaps they only focused on souvenir, promo, and advertising pennants?

I feel like if they were as big as was once claimed, we'd all know more about them by now.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by matty39

On the Ferguson blotter shown below it states that the bakery was giving away as premiums both large movie actor and baseball star pennants. Those pennants were produced by Bradford and company of St. Joseph, Michigan. Several years ago I picked up one of the large movie actor pennants which fortunately had it's ad on the back. Both are shown below. On your list you should probably cross out Ferguson and add Bradford and Co.

Thanks. That's great info. I've updated my catalog accordingly.

Kyle, I'm already looking forward to the 2022 updates to the blog!

[thetahat]

Kyle, good stuff. The batter graphic appears on a set of minis I picked up not too long ago, interested to learn more, can’t wait for ‘22!

Also I forgot all about the BF3s from 1936-37 … is that the same as Red Ball?

[thetahat]

Speaking of minis I found this cool WGN after getting the price way down. Haven’t seen another from this series. I have seen mid-size pennants from the series, not with tassels but with extended spine as if it was part of a string … but they were large, like 20”.

I had fun with my “mini” project, just about filled in all the gaps on the paneling. Pics to come.

[erikc21]

Here is a WGN of mine that I’ve not seen another version of. Is there a ‘Day-Glo’ version?

[Duluth Eskimo]

That’s a cool pennant Erik. I’ve never seen that one before

[bocca001]

Is that a baseball with a dagger in its mouth? That is cool.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Is that a baseball with a dagger in its mouth? That is cool.

in Pirate parlance, it’s known as a “cutlass.”

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by erikc21

Here is a WGN of mine that I’ve not seen another version of. Is there a ‘Day-Glo’ version?

That is FANTASTIC! Never saw it before either. WGN pennants underwent a significant style change in the late 50s. Probably just hired a new artist. And it’s interesting that they went back to tassels for it.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Speaking of minis I found this cool WGN after getting the price way down. Haven’t seen another from this series. I have seen mid-size pennants from the series, not with tassels but with extended spine as if it was part of a string … but they were large, like 20”.

Like this guy, huh?

[ooo-ribay]

Question: When you get a pennant with a "squared off" spine, like the one on the right, do you think this is a factory thing or an alteration?

[erikc21]

Originally Posted by thetahat

That is FANTASTIC! Never saw it before either. WGN pennants underwent a significant style change in the late 50s. Probably just hired a new artist. And it’s interesting that they went back to tassels for it.

I wish I could have been a fly in the wall in these factories. And Marc, yeah a cool design element with a dagger.

I often wonder with scarcity (and condition and subject matter) driving value, if past owners or execs of these factories ever intentionally produced just a handful of certain pennant runs to restrict supply and increase value. That’s assuming they had the foresight to think of collectibility. I fantasize that a child / grandchild of the original owner or factory worker has a stash of one of a kind pennants nobody is aware of…

[ooo-ribay]

Hey, FB Rob....I never really took a deep dive into your football pennant website until last night. Wow! Great job. Ballpark, what percentage of the pennants pictured are yours?

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by erikc21

Here is a WGN of mine that I’ve not seen another version of. Is there a ‘Day-Glo’ version?

Whoa, never ever seen that one. Not in monochrome or Day-Glo/polychrome.

It's definitely modeled on their '59 AL champs pennant for the White Sox, which was also monochrome. They just updated the artwork with a pirate theme.

No clue why it features tassels. By 1958 or so, WGN was using an outside maker to supply them with pennants: G.B. Feld Co. I strongly suspect this may be why it features tassels. With that said, the other two WGN/Feld pennants I've come across featured a clear "FELD CO. CHI." mark on them; which this Pirate pennant lacks.

Come to think of it ... one of the WGN/Feld pennants I'm referring to had tassels and was monochrome. It's the SMU pennant featured at the very end of my WGN post.

So, most likely this Pirate pennant was made by Feld (for WGN?), and they just omitted their mark from the artwork.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Question: When you get a pennant with a "squared off" spine, like the one on the right, do you think this is a factory thing or an alteration?

Definitely a factory thing. Some makers, I've noticed, cut their spines at an angle. Others didn't bother and left it squared, to save time.

If they were hand cut, that may explain why you see variations in style from one pennant to the next. Maybe the spine cutter was in a hurry to get to lunch that day?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Definitely a factory thing. Some makers, I've noticed, cut their spines at an angle. Others didn't bother and left it squared, to save time.

If they were hand cut, that may explain why you see variations in style from one pennant to the next. Maybe the spine cutter was in a hurry to get to lunch that day?

Agree... definitely done at the factory. There are simply way too many like this to consider them as "altered". And they never have sharp edges in this area, like you see on altered pennants (typically towards the tip).

[ooo-ribay]

Mark and Kyle - my question was unclear…I was more wondering about the pennant material under the spine. On the pennant on the right, it’s noticeably “squared” i.e. 90 degrees to the vertical cut of the left side.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Mark and Kyle - my question was unclear…I was more wondering about the pennant material under the spine. On the pennant on the right, it’s noticeably “squared” i.e. 90 degrees to the vertical cut of the left side.

I think it’s factory, probably at the end of a sheet.

Some pennants have squared tips, uneven spine, etc. It’s pretty clear that many were made that way. I have pennants with three tassels in one spot. I just think they weren’t terribly careful. The “sliding runner” pennants are also known to have a little notch on the top edge.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Like this guy, huh?

Yes that’s exactly what I mean … nice!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Mark and Kyle - my question was unclear…I was more wondering about the pennant material under the spine. On the pennant on the right, it’s noticeably “squared” i.e. 90 degrees to the vertical cut of the left side.

Edit: this is a good example of what I'm talking about. Not my only pennant with this phenomena.

BTW - this pennant is shown in the 1963 merchandise ads. I think it's unique and undervalued.

[perezfan]

That is my first-ever pennant. My dad bought it at Candlestick Park during the 1964 season. Very special day when he brought it home, and miraculously I still have it!

[bocca001]

Merry xmas to me!

For a design that was so common across high schools, colleges, and pro teams for a time (1940s), there never seems to be very many of these for any individual team and I have been looking for this one for a long time.

[thetahat]

Congrats Marc! Can’t say I’ve ever seen that before.

[Fballguy]

Looks great Marc. Interesting too that the Niners version is the only one that I can recall seeing in which the player graphic overlays the font.

Rob...Thanks for checking out the site. 76.7% are mine....to be exact.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Merry xmas to me!

For a design that was so common across high schools, colleges, and pro teams for a time (1940s), there never seems to be very many of these for any individual team and I have been looking for this one for a long time.

Glad you found one, Marc! It’s always satisfying to check one off.

I think your pennant may have answered the “squared spine” question for me. I’m thinking the spine felt was probably cut after it was sewn on. On your pennant, the cutter angled the top and squared the bottom, but avoided cutting into the pennant. Sometimes, they may have squared the spine, while cutting through the body as well…..then, they went to lunch.