1949 Leaf BB cards....show us your Leaf's

[tedzan]

Here are some more of my color printing flaws......


And, do printing flaws get any wilder than this ?

TED Z
.

[mechanicalman]

That's sweet. Looks less like a baseball card and more like an album cover from a 1980's Europop band.

[tedzan]

The two Detroit Tigers HOFers......

.





Hey guys

I have completed 1.75 sets of these 1949 LEAF cards. And I will say that Kell and Newhouser and Doby and Kurowski and Paige are definitely the toughest
cards in the entire set. However, I really do not understand why these 5 are tougher than the other 44 cards in the 2nd series (since they were all printed
on the same 49-card sheet). Anyone on this forum have any ideas why this is so ?

Anyhow, if you guys have found some other LEAF's in this set just as tough as these 5, please chime in with your candidates.....Thanks.


.



TED Z
.

[leaflover]

Three more toughies.

[steve_a]

I'm much closer to 2 sets than 1 as well. Brecheen has been the toughest for me to find in any kind of decent condition.

While we have a few eyeballs on this great set, here's my current wishlist of a few odds & ends. Will pay top dollar for any of these but even a scan posted of one of them would be a huge help towards finishing up a project.

Fannin with Joost Wrong Back (or vice versa) or
Sauer with Miller Wrong Back or
Henrich with upside down back or
Henrich MC back with 1949 Copyright shown above or
Joost MC back with 1948 Copyright shown above

[scotgreb]

I get really tired of the poor grammar on this site. Here are my "Leaves" . . .

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

That's sweet. Looks less like a baseball card and more like an album cover from a 1980's Europop band.

Hey Sam

Better yet, how's about some psychedelic poster from the late 1960's


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

All three of these variations are in the 1st series.

In early press runs Kent Peterson is depicted with a black cap. Later issues of 1st series cards, Kent Peterson is depicted with a Red cap.
My guess is LEAF changed the color of his cap to be consistent with the 3 other Cincinnati players in the 1st series. The Red cap version
is somewhat rare.





The Gene Hermanski card is rarely found misspelled "Gene Hermansk". This variation appears to be just a spelling error that was caught
early in the printing process.



The long-sleeve card of Aberson appeared in the early issues of the LEAF cards. The short-sleeve version appeared later in the game.
I tend to think that the short-sleeve Aberson cards are simply the result a printing flaw.





TED Z
.

[steve_a]

My guess on Hermansk is a printing plate issue. If you line up a Hermansk and a Hermanski you will see they are perfectly aligned but the Hermanski is better centered within the text block. This partial "I" demonstrates the point.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by leaflover

Three more toughies.

Hi Mike

I agree that Pesky is considerably tough to find.

I'm not sure that Gustine is that tough.

Thanks for posting your Leaf's.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by steve_a

My guess on Hermansk is a printing plate issue. If you line up a Hermansk and a Hermanski you will see they are perfectly aligned but the Hermanski is better centered within the text block. This partial "I" demonstrates the point.

Hi Steve

In the Old Cardboard magazine, in my article on this set, I present another take on the Hermanski variation.

The Hermanski card was located on the bottom right-hand corner of the 49-card LEAF sheet. In the printing process of this sheet, there were times when the letter "I"
did not print (or as your card shows, partially printed) due to the printing plate not making firm contact with the cardboard on that very lowermost corner of the sheet.


TED Z
.

[steve_a]

Originally Posted by tedzan

... there were times when the letter "I" did not print (or as your card shows, partially printed) due to the printing plate not making firm contact with the cardboard on that very lowermost corner of the sheet.

TED Z
.

I think that is the right idea, but maybe backwards? Don't forget that it is the text boxes that are printed, not the names. The names are just voids within the text box. A missing "I" would be from over-contact or too much ink.

[tedzan]

For many years we've known that these cards were skip-numbered, and that there are 98 different BB subjects.
But, in the Spring of '49....us kids had no idea how many cards we needed to complete this set. A premium adv.
on the back of some cards mentioned a 168-card album was available for mailing in a number of wrappers.
We kept spending our pennies buying LEAF cards by the 100's. It was a "nasty" marketing trick that LEAF Gum
played on us kids back then. My original collection had all 49 (1st series) cards and approx. 80 duplicates.


Here is an old photo of an uncut sheet of 1st series cards. Along with a diagram of the card #'s on their backs.









TED Z
.

[steve B]

Pretty neat stuff Ted.

I've been studying the first series a bit trying to figure out the order of what to me looks like three printings, or maybe three sets of plates with some transitional cards using elements of two different groups. Having the major variations in some sort of order is huge.

The stuff I'm, looking at.

Pink vs Red and background differences like backgrounds extending along the players body or bat or not.



And not only pink vs red, but dark blue vs light blue and similar background issues.



I've suspected for a while that pink and those extensions of the background were earlier, pink changed because the target market would probably very much prefer red, and the little extensions removed to cut a bit of cost. Not saving much ink per card, but over a big press run it would add up.

There's other changes that are less obvious and that I don't have good scans for like shading on hats or not.

A fun set that I like, and one I like all the more for that complexity. I'll probably complete the basic regular cards someday, probably not the SPs.

Steve B

[tedzan]

Hi Steve B.

Thanks for chiming in, and thanks for the compliment.


Here are other LEAF's from my 2 sets that have both shades of Blue.

The Musial card is mostly found with the Dark Blue color. Very rarely, a Light Blue one is found. I prefer the Light Blue version.














And then, there is BLUE or no BLUE.




And if you're lucky (rarely in a "blue-moon") you can find a no-Blue LEAF card.

You got to love this stuff.


TED Z
.

[jb67]

Some great cards being posted. I only have one Leaf card but really love this set and will eventually add more. Here is my Jackie Robinson.

[Bumpus Jones]

Great post Ted Z. I've long admired these cards and have several Reds players in my collection, but I'm also an advanced Reds pennant collector of all shapes and sizes and this is the only pennant I own that measures 12" x 6". In my opinion, this is the Reds version of the pennant offer shown on the back of some Leaf cards. Wanted to hear yours and everyone else's opinion on the subject. I'm also interested in hearing what you have to say about the other premiums offered by leaf. Do you have any pics to share of these items?

[yanksfan09]

my 2...

[Joem36]

Here is my six. Just started this great set. Looking for centered ones in the new PSA holder.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Bumpus Jones

Great post Ted Z. I've long admired these cards and have several Reds players in my collection, but I'm also an advanced Reds pennant collector of all shapes and sizes and this is the only pennant I own that measures 12" x 6". In my opinion, this is the Reds version of the pennant offer shown on the back of some Leaf cards. Wanted to hear yours and everyone else's opinion on the subject. I'm also interested in hearing what you have to say about the other premiums offered by leaf. Do you have any pics to share of these items?

Hi Chris

Great looking pennant you have there.

I've never gone after the pennants. I had a chance to get the 32-page LEAF album. But, I thought the price was too high, so I didn't get it. I sort of regret not purchasing it,
as it is very difficult to find this album.

I have the Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig HOF premiums. When I return home tomorrow, I will post pictures of them


TED Z
.

[Snapolit1]

One of the AHs last year had a blue background DiMaggio which was very sweet. Kicking myself I didn't buy it.

If anyone wants to sell a nice Newhouser let me know.

[tedzan]

I've listed the 98 subjects (plus the 3 variations) as a function of their teams for those on his forum who are team collectors.

The 2nd series (short-print) cards are identified by an *


BOSTON BRAVES
----------------------
WARREN SPAHN
ALVIN DARK *
BOB ELLIOTT
TOMMY HOLMES *
HAROLD REISER *

BOSTON RED SOX
-----------------------
TED WILLIAMS
BOBBY DOERR
MATHEW BATTS *
DOM DiMAGGIO *
BILLY GOODMAN *
MICKEY HARRIS
JOHNNY PESKY *
VERN STEPHENS *

BROOKLYN DODGERS
---------------------------
JACKIE ROBINSON
GENE HERMANSKI
GENE HERMANSK (missing "I" variation)

CHICAGO CUBS
--------------------
CLIFF ABERSON
CLIFF ABERSON (short sleeve variation)
PHIL CAVRETTA *
FRANK GUSTINE *
EMIL LEONARD *
HARRY LOWREY *
BOB McCALL
ANDY PAFKO
BOB SCHEFFING *
JOHNNY SCHMITZ *
ROY SMALLEY
HARRY WALKER *

CHICAGO WHITE SOX
---------------------------
LUCIUS APPLING
FLOYD BAKER *
ORVAL GROVE *
CASIMER MICHAELS *
DAVE PHILLEY *
PAT SEEREY
RALPH WEIGEL

CINCINNATI REDS
-----------------------
BOBBY ADAMS *
EWELL BLACKWELL
TED KLUSZEWSKI
KENT PETERSON
KENT PETERSON (red cap variation)
HANK SAUER *
JOHNNY VANDERMEER
JOHN WYROSTEK *

CLEVELAND INDIANS
---------------------------
BOB FELLER *
LEROY PAIGE *
LOU BOUDREAU
LARRY DOBY *
HANK EDWARDS
JOE GORDON
JIM HEGAN
KEN KELTNER *
DALE MITCHELL *

DETROIT TIGERS
----------------------
GEORGE KELL *
HAL NEWHOUSER *
WALTER EVERS *
FRED HUTCHINSON *
FRANK OVERMIRE
PAUL TROUT
VIRGIL TRUCKS *
GEORGE VICO
DICK WAKEFIELD

NEW YORK GIANTS
------------------------
JOHNNY MIZE
LARRY JENSEN
SID GORDON *

NEW YORK YANKEES
---------------------------
BABE RUTH
JOE DiMAGGIO
PHIL RIZZUTO
TOMMY HENRICH *
BILLY JOHNSON
JOHNNY LINDELL
GEORGE STIRNWEISS

PHILADELPHIA ATHLETICS
----------------------------------
LOU BRISSIE
SAM CHAPMAN
EDDIE JOOST *
HENRY MAJESKI *
BARNEY McCOSKY *
WARREN ROSAR
ELMER VALO

PHILADELPHIA PHILLIES
--------------------------------
DEL ENNIS
ED MILLER *
DICK SISLER *

PITTSBURGH PIRATES
----------------------------
JOHN WAGNER
RALPH KINER
KIRBY HIGBE *
JOHNNY HOPP
DANNY MURTAUGH *
EDDIE STEVENS *

ST LOUIS BROWNS
------------------------
BOB DILLINGER *
CLIFFORD FANNIN *
MIZELL PLATT
GERALD PRIDDY
AL ZARILLA *

ST LOUIS CARDINALS
---------------------------
STAN MUSIAL
ENOS SLAUGHTER *
HARRY BRECHEEN *
GEORGE KUROWSKI *
MARTIN MARION

WASHINGTON SENATORS
--------------------------------
JAKE EARLY
AL EVANS
SID HUDSON
EDDIE STEWART *



TED Z
.

[mrmopar]

Leaf did me a favor by not including that many Dodgers, although I have wanted a SP Reiser forever even though he is not a Dodger in the set.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Bumpus Jones

Great post Ted Z. I've long admired these cards and have several Reds players in my collection, but I'm also an advanced Reds pennant collector of all shapes and sizes and this is the only pennant I own that measures 12" x 6". In my opinion, this is the Reds version of the pennant offer shown on the back of some Leaf cards. Wanted to hear yours and everyone else's opinion on the subject. I'm also interested in hearing what you have to say about the other premiums offered by leaf. Do you have any pics to share of these items?

Hi Chris

The last time I saw any of the Pennants that LEAF Gum offered, I was very young. They really are very rare. Your Cincinnati pennant looks like what was offered by LEAF.
And, it certainly measures correctly.

The 32-page LEAF album premium is seldom seen. Both the Album and the Pennants were mail-in items, and this may have something to do why these items are so rare.

The HOFer's picture premiums were available at our corner candy stores. These premiums were inside the 24-count wax pack boxes. Kids would get a HOFer's picture by
simply giving the store manager ten LEAF wrappers and requested a certain ballplayer.

Also, I've heard that some generous store managers would reward a kid with a HOFer premium when that kid purchased the very last wax pack(s) in the box.

Here are my 3 premiums....two Babe Ruth pictures, and the Lou Gehrig pix.



. . . .




Premiums Checklist

Grover Cleveland Alexander
Mickey Cochrane
Lou Gehrig
Walter Johnson
Christy Mathewson
John McGraw
Babe Ruth (light background, no text)
Babe Ruth (blue background, no text)
Babe Ruth (dark background, text)
Ed Walsh



TED Z
.

[Bumpus Jones]

Those are great Ted Z.! I very much appreciate your taking the time to do this. Would you happen to have or have any pictures of promotional items or card wrappers to share? How many cards came in a package? Thanks, Chris.

[tedzan]

Chris

Here are the wrappers of the two competing Gum Co. in 1949. The BOWMAN and LEAF wax-packs were available for a Penny and a Nickel.



................ 1949 BOWMAN …….............................................. 1949 LEAF .....................





TED Z
.

[Bumpus Jones]

Thanks, Ted Z.

[Yoda]

Ted, I am sure you recall when Boudreaux tried the Ted Williams Shift, by pulling all the Indian infielders way over towards right field so that the 3rd baseman was playing where the shortstop normally would be and the left fielder was way over in center. I don't think it was a great success.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Ted, I am sure you recall when Boudreaux tried the Ted Williams Shift, by pulling all the Indian infielders way over towards right field so that the 3rd baseman was playing where the shortstop normally would be and the left fielder was way over in center. I don't think it was a great success.

Hey John....always great to hear from you.

Boudreau devised his "famous shift" in the Summer of 1946. Ted Williams laughed at the Indians players and hit the ball over all of them into the deep confines of Municipal Stadium.
Or into the RF stands at Fenway Park.

Ted Williams was a stubborn guy, who would never resort to slicing the ball to LF where there was no Outfielder, or a line drive down the 3rd base line when this "shift" was in place.

Can you imagine....if Ted had hit the ball to the opposite field when this defensive "shift" was used against him....what his BA would have been ?

Ted's career Hits = 2654, his career Walks = 2021, for a .344 career BA. He needed only 200 more Hits in order to raise his career BA to a lofty .370

The point I am driving at here......had Ted driven the ball to the opposite field just 10 % of the times that he Walked, he would have achieved a .370 BA.

Then Ted would be the all-time Batting leader, instead of Cobb.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by mrmopar

Leaf did me a favor by not including that many Dodgers, although I have wanted a SP Reiser forever even though he is not a Dodger in the set.

Curt

There are several 1949 Leaf Reiser cards listed on Ebay today.


TED Z

[tedzan]

OK guys, here I go again in my criticism of PSA, SGC, etc. because of their wrong dates on their flips regarding the 1949 LEAF cards.

But, I do salute PSA and SGC for getting it right on the 1949 LEAF Premiums. Most of us (old dudes) who were lucky enough to collect these cards in 1949
remember that these HOFer picture premiums were included in the 24-count wax-pack boxes. There is absolutely no doubt that the Premiums were issued
simultaneously with the cards.


So, can any of you explain this contradiction. Why do the Premiums' flips have a 1949 date, while the BB cards' flips have "fictitious" dates ?


SGC identifies these cards as 1948-1949, I don't know how Beckett dates them, and PSA is totally incorrect with their 1948 date........






. .



TED Z
.

[CW]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

One of the AHs last year had a blue background DiMaggio which was very sweet. Kicking myself I didn't buy it.

Ah, yes, Steve I remember that one, too. I think it was Memory Lane just this past summer/fall. A PSA 3 with a light blueish grey background. I also thought about bidding on it, but it sold for just north of $3K! I would likely buy it today to go along with these two (plus a few other Leafs)....

[Snapolit1]

Wow. Awesome Joe D.s!

[ZiggerZagger]

Here's what I've got -- Just love this set!
Plus the Wagner who was a recent addition to the party

[leaflover]

Can you name any other set that has DiMaggio, Ruth, Musial, Williams, Paige and Robinson in it? Lucky if you can get 3 out of the 6 in the same set.

Oddly for Seerey, Platt and Weigel it was their one and only time on cardboard. Aberson, I believe can also be added to the "one time only" list.

[CW]

Thanks, Steve.

Nice Leaf lineups there, Jason and Mike!

[tedzan]

Hey guys,

Approx. 50 posts (to date) displaying a variety of 1949 LEAF BB cards in this thread. I really appreciate all of your responses. Let's see some more.

I realize most of you on this forum are into graded cards. And, that's fine. I prefer to collect these cards in their original form. Just as I did as a kid.

The 101 cards in my 1st LEAF set are in Hi-Quality Mylar. Sixty-two of the 74 cards in my 2nd set are also in Mylar. These 12 displayed here are the
last remaining graded cards in my LEAF collection. Eventually, I will free them from their hard plastic capsules and let them "breathe"



. .


>> Feller back >>



TED Z
.

[steve_a]

3 tough SPs & a Joe D that haven't been slabbed (yet..)

[tedzan]

It looks this thread is winding down. But, before it fades away onto page 2, it would be nice to have displayed all the 2nd series short-print cards,
since these cards are not often seen. So far, we have already posted about 1/2 of the 49 cards in this series.

Therefore, here are 9 more......




Incidentally......the Orval Grove bio is one of several bios in this set that reinforces the fact that the 1949 LEAF cards were never issued in 1948.
This card mentions the trade of Early Wynn from Washington to Cleveland on Dec 14, 1948.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

OK guys, here I go again in my criticism of PSA, SGC, etc. because of their wrong dates on their flips regarding the 1949 LEAF cards.


So, can any of you explain this contradiction. Why do the Premiums' flips have a 1949 date, while the BB cards' flips have "fictitious" dates ?


SGC identifies these LEAF cards as "1948-1949" ........ and, PSA identifies these LEAF cards as "1948"........ both are WRONG !








.



TED Z
.

I reiterate....Can any of you explain this contradiction. Why are the Premiums' flips correctly dated 1949....while the BB cards' flips have "fictitious" dates ?


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Before this thread fades away....I thought it would be nice to have displayed all the 2nd series short-print cards, since these cards are not often seen.

So far, we have posted about 1/2 of the 49 cards in this series. In post #89, I added 9 new short-prints. And, here is another group of short-prints....





One more group to complete this series of 49 short-prints will be posted later.


TED Z
.

[leaflover]

Four pretty good arms. Tough cards and tough to hit. All short prints.

[Joshwesley]

Originally Posted by leaflover

Four pretty good arms. Tough cards and tough to hit. All short prints.

That's a beautiful satchel.. Man......

[tedzan]

Hi Mike

Those 4 beauties are awesome......you are the quintessential 1949 LEAF BB card collector.


OK guys,

With this group of 1949 LEAF's, we have completed the display in this thread of all 49 cards in the 2nd series (short-prints).



.................................................. ........ Last card in set (#168)




It's always nice to see more of these LEAF cards, especially the various color printing anomalies....so, show us your LEAF's.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

FYI....1949 LEAF 2nd series (short-prints) checklist by teams......


BOSTON BRAVES
----------------------
ALVIN DARK
TOMMY HOLMES
HAROLD REISER

BOSTON RED SOX
-----------------------
MATHEW BATTS
DOM DiMAGGIO
BILLY GOODMAN
JOHNNY PESKY
VERN STEPHENS

CHICAGO CUBS
--------------------
PHIL CAVARETTA
FRANK GUSTINE
EMIL LEONARD
HARRY LOWREY
BOB SCHEFFING
JOHNNY SCHMITZ
HARRY WALKER

CHICAGO WHITE SOX
---------------------------
FLOYD BAKER
ORVAL GROVE
CASIMER MICHAELS
DAVE PHILLEY

CINCINNATI REDS
-----------------------
BOBBY ADAMS
HANK SAUER
JOHN WYROSTEK

CLEVELAND INDIANS
---------------------------
BOB FELLER
LEROY PAIGE
LARRY DOBY
KEN KELTNER
DALE MITCHELL

DETROIT TIGERS
----------------------
GEORGE KELL
HAL NEWHOUSER
WALTER EVERS
FRED HUTCHINSON
VIRGIL TRUCKS

NEW YORK GIANTS
------------------------
SID GORDON

NEW YORK YANKEES
---------------------------
TOMMY HENRICH

PHILADELPHIA ATHLETICS
----------------------------------
EDDIE JOOST
HENRY MAJESKI
BARNEY McCOSKY

PHILADELPHIA PHILLIES
--------------------------------
ED MILLER
DICK SISLER

PITTSBURGH PIRATES
-----------------------------
KIRBY HIGBE
DANNY MURTAUGH
EDDIE STEVENS

ST LOUIS BROWNS
-------------------------
BOB DILLINGER
CLIFFORD FANNIN
AL ZARILLA

ST LOUIS CARDINALS
---------------------------
ENOS SLAUGHTER
HARRY BRECHEEN
GEORGE KUROWSKI

WASHINGTON SENATORS
--------------------------------
EDDIE STEWART



TED Z
.

[almostdone]

I just wanted to publicly thank Ted Z for starting this thread and all the great information provided about this set. I only have two from the set but my Musial is easily in my top five favorite cards I own.

If anyone else has other info, printing anomalies, or just addition cards to show please do.

Thanks again Ted for making this post war collector visit the prewar side a bit more over the last few weeks.

Drew

(Already shown but why not?)

[tedzan]

Hi Drew

I appreciate your very kind words. And, I am glad this thread got you to check-out the pre-war side of this forum.

I debated whether to post this thread here, or in the post-war section. I felt that the historic significance of the 1949 LEAF's, being
the 1st major colorized BB card set since 1941, warranted higher exposure. I'm very pleased with the enthusiastic responses here.

Anyhow, I think you will be adding some more 1949 LEAF's to your collection.


TED Z
.

[tjb1952tjb]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey John....always great to hear from you.

Boudreau devised his "famous shift" in the Summer of 1946. Ted Williams laughed at the Indians players and hit the ball over all of them into the deep confines of Municipal Stadium.
Or into the RF stands at Fenway Park.

Ted Williams was a stubborn guy, who would never resort to slicing the ball to LF where there was no Outfielder, or a line drive down the 3rd base line when this "shift" was in place.

Can you imagine....if Ted had hit the ball to the opposite field when this defensive "shift" was used against him....what his BA would have been ?

Ted's career Hits = 2654, his career Walks = 2021, for a .344 career BA. He needed only 200 more Hits in order to raise his career BA to a lofty .370

The point I am driving at here......had Ted driven the ball to the opposite field just 10 % of the times that he Walked, he would have achieved a .370 BA.

Then Ted would be the all-time Batting leader, instead of Cobb.


TED Z
.

What would Ted Williams batting average be if the sacrifice fly was in effect? I think I read his 1941 average would have been .422............

[tjb1952tjb]

My only 1948 Leaf................

[fduran27]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Drew

I appreciate your very kind words. And, I am glad this thread got you to check-out the pre-war side of this forum.

I debated whether to post this thread here, or in the post-war section. I felt that the historic significance of the 1949 LEAF's, being
the 1st major colorized BB card set since 1941, warranted higher exposure. I'm very pleased with the enthusiastic responses here.

Anyhow, I think you will be adding some more 1949 LEAF's to your collection.


TED Z
.

Thanks to this thread, i have started to collect this set. It calls to me for some reason.

Thanks Ted