Is This Really Babe Ruth?

[Bored5000]

This really seems to like a huge screw up by the TPG companies. The value of that card is just about zero without Babe Ruth. Wonder how the hobby ever came to accept that it was Ruth in the image?

Aside from the fact that lots of people now have a card that is nearly worthless (if they are being honest when they try to sell it), this eliminates one of the few Ruth pre World War II cards that could still be had for under $500.

[darwinbulldog]

As they say, a prosopagnosiac and his money are soon parted.

[Michael B]

I am pretty sure I have a good full on photo of Ernst Brandsten. I just pulled out a photo him and two of his Olympic diving athletes to scan to my website. I will post it when I get home this evening.

Brandsten competed in diving at the 1912 Olympics but did not medal. His wife Greta Johansson also competed in diving in 1912 winning a gold medal. They trained divers at Stanford for 33 years. Both were inducted into the International Swimming Hall of Fame in Florida. At one point I owned a large group of Greta's personal HOF programs signed by many HOFer Olympians.

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

As they say, a prosopagnosiac and his money are soon parted.

pros·o·pag·no·sia

/ˌpräsəpaɡˈnōZH(ē)ə/

noun
Psychiatry
noun: prosopagnosia

an inability to recognize the faces of familiar people, typically as a result of damage to the brain.

Your welcome.

[Snapolit1]

Shows the hypnotic power of the flip. I looked at the card (online) 1,000 times and never one questioned it. Now looking at it it is clearly not babe Ruth. I wouldn't even say even close to Babe Ruth. Unreal.

[Michael B]

I don't normally look at a lot of threads in this section, but the title piqued my curiosity. I am glad I did. I knew immediately it was not Babe Ruth. I guess the expression 'You tell a lie enough times and people will believe it' holds true here. For everyone's edification here is a photo of Ernst (NOT Ernest) Brandsten with two of his star divers at Stanford circa 1926-27. Dave Fall on the left won a silver medal in diving in 1924. He became an attorney practicing maritime law in California. Just before his death in 1964 he was appointed a district court judge in California. Pete Desjardins on the right won a silver medal in diving in 1924 and gold medals in both diving events in 1928. I will also post this in the other thread.

[Steve D]

And now, PWCC has one in their new auction:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1935-Muratt...sAAOSw-NFav~yF

I just sent an email to them asking them to look up the thread(s) here on Net54.

Steve

[mantlefan]

Originally Posted by Steve D

And now, PWCC has one in their new auction:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1935-Muratt...sAAOSw-NFav~yF

I just sent an email to them asking them to look up the thread(s) here on Net54.

Steve

Good luck with that, Steve.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by mantlefan

Good luck with that, Steve.

I know, call me a hopeless optimist

Steve

[irv]

Originally Posted by Steve D

And now, PWCC has one in their new auction:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1935-Muratt...sAAOSw-NFav~yF

I just sent an email to them asking them to look up the thread(s) here on Net54.

Steve

I'm looking forward to hearing their reply. If they are everything they state or try to state with regards to honesty, transparency and keeping the hobby strong, then this card should be pulled from their auction.

Has there been any correspondence/info with regards to PSA and Joe Orlando about this card?

I am sure the monetary hit would be huge, but like they also try to convey, the proper thing to do would be to own this mistake.

Edit: I found the other thread and based on it, I highly doubt PWCC nor PSA will be doing anything soon with regards to removing/admitting anything.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=252123

Anyway you look at it, it is just wrong these cards are still being sold as Ruth cards and it is equally wrong PSA has not yet acknowledged their mistake.

[prestigecollectibles]

PWCC ended the auction. I once sent Joe Orlando a tweet about the incorrect details regarding the Babe Ruth Shonen Club Japanese postcard and he responded by blocking me.

[Sean]

Robert, what incorrect details about the Shonen Ruth?

[irv]

Originally Posted by prestigecollectibles

PWCC ended the auction. I once sent Joe Orlando a tweet about the incorrect details regarding the Babe Ruth Shonen Club Japanese postcard and he responded by blocking me.

That is great to see!

[prestigecollectibles]

Originally Posted by Sean

Robert, what incorrect details about the Shonen Ruth?

It was listed as a 1928 Shonen Kulubu for a long time. It should've been 1929 Shonen Club. They eventually did fix it and so did SGC. I emailed Bob Lemke around 2009 and he had it corrected in the Krause guide around 2011.

[Steve D]

I just looked on the PSA registry, and the Muratti card does not appear in either the Babe Ruth Master or Super Set. It also is listed as only "Dorothy Poynton" in the pop report.....no mention of Babe Ruth on it.

Steve

[mantlefan]

I AM surprised that it was pulled. Good work Steve.

I sent this email to a few people at PSA and have never received a reply:

March 5, 2018

Hi xxe

I hope you are well.

I know it's not in your expertise, but maybe you could forward this to the right person in research at PSA. This card does not depict Babe Ruth, although PSA, SGC and Beckett say it does.


I was going through some of my oddball Babe Ruth cards and came across this one. Supposedly it's a 1935 Muratti cigarette card of Babe Ruth and Olympic diver, Dorothy Boynton. The card back mentions that in 1928 Dorothy, a diver, was 14 and the youngest athlete ever to win an Olympic medal. It states that she won the 1932 Gold for diving in LA. The photo was taken at the 1932 Olympics. There is no mention though of the Babe on the front or back.




He seems kind of slim to be Babe and I think the nose is wrong. Also, the Olympics in LA ran July 30, 1932 to August 14, 1932. Babe played for the Yankees in Detroit, Chicago and St. Louis on those dates.





The card actually depicts Dorothy Poynton's coach, Ernie Brandsten:



Here is Ernie at the same spot coaching another swimmer. Same hat, bow tie and socks:



I hope something can be done about this situation. People are paying $300 - $400 for this card in PSA 8, believing they purchased a Ruth card, when they haven't.


Best,


Frank Evanov

[Leon]

I think it was Ernst but maybe he went by Ernie.
I was told yesterday that PSA took this card off of their registry as to it being Ruth. I haven't confirmed it.

Originally Posted by mantlefan

I AM surprised that it was pulled. Good work Steve.

I sent this email to a few people at PSA and have never received a reply:

March 5, 2018

Hi xxe

I hope you are well.

I know it's not in your expertise, but maybe you could forward this to the right person in research at PSA. This card does not depict Babe Ruth, although PSA, SGC and Beckett say it does.


I was going through some of my oddball Babe Ruth cards and came across this one. Supposedly it's a 1935 Muratti cigarette card of Babe Ruth and Olympic diver, Dorothy Boynton. The card back mentions that in 1928 Dorothy, a diver, was 14 and the youngest athlete ever to win an Olympic medal. It states that she won the 1932 Gold for diving in LA. The photo was taken at the 1932 Olympics. There is no mention though of the Babe on the front or back.




He seems kind of slim to be Babe and I think the nose is wrong. Also, the Olympics in LA ran July 30, 1932 to August 14, 1932. Babe played for the Yankees in Detroit, Chicago and St. Louis on those dates.





The card actually depicts Dorothy Poynton's coach, Ernie Brandsten:



Here is Ernie at the same spot coaching another swimmer. Same hat, bow tie and socks:



I hope something can be done about this situation. People are paying $300 - $400 for this card in PSA 8, believing they purchased a Ruth card, when they haven't.


Best,


Frank Evanov

[mantlefan]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think it was Ernst but maybe he went by Ernie.
I was told yesterday that PSA took this card off eof their registry as to it being Ruth. I haven't confirmed it.

Yes they have, but it’s still out there in Auctions. Short of decertifying them, I doubt there’s much they can do.

[OLDBILL]

My best translation for the back of the B. Ruth card is:

FOCAL POINTS
THE GERMAN SPORTS
A compilation in 3 volumes
Volume I:
"Between the Olympics
Picture 26
Volume I:
Dorothy Poynton was 14 years old when she first came to the USA. At the Olympics in 1928. In Los Angeles in 1932, she won in the dive.
By classifying the images in the scrapbook edited by us, the collector receives a sports history of our time, linked in text and image. The Album,, Between the Olympic Games is available at the price of 1 Reichsmark in all Cigaretten - sales outlets or directly through us.
The pictures are enclosed with the packs of 10, 25 and 50 pieces of our brand "Muratti Privat".
The exchange of images can only take place, after the whole series has been released.
In Preparation:
Volume II: "A sports nation is preparing"
Volume III: "The XI. 1936 Olympics, Berlin
Cigarette factories
Muratti Stock Company
Berlin

[OLDBILL]

bump

[mantlefan]

Herr Bill, das ist richtig.

[OLDBILL]

Danke Google Translate...Ha!

[irv]

Looks like these are still in circulation. With Ruth cards being hot lately, I'm sure there are some others getting some pretty decent prices. For those that don't know about this card, you might appreciate this thread?
I wrote the seller to let him know.
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/194740985369...75.c101224.m-1

[GasHouseGang]

I think it's cute how you think he'll actually care.

[irv]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

I think it's cute how you think he'll actually care.

Already received a reply from him; "PSA puts its name on that card, not me"

[Sean]

Originally Posted by irv

Already received a reply from him; "PSA puts its name on that card, not me"

Yeah, he just takes the money for selling the card.

[Snapolit1]

Other than the fact that the dude looks nothing like Ruth and is in an environment that no one would possibly have expected Ruth to have been in. . . . yeah. . . . honest mistake.

[yanksfan09]

There’s 5 other fixed price listings on eBay ranging between 1000- 8000!

Such a shame, the amount of people who will continue for years to get burned by this card! I don’t get why it was ever even thought to have been Ruth, didn’t make any sense.

[shagrotn77]

Do the TPGs still slab it as a Ruth card?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by irv

Already received a reply from him; "PSA puts its name on that card, not me"

What a maroon...
.

[Yoda]

How about Dorothy and "Fattie" Arbuckle? He was known for appreciating young girls.

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

Originally Posted by horzverti

Thanks for all of that. You seem totally calm and not a thin-skinned hothead at all. Whatever you do, DON'T smash your keyboard. You will need that if you wish to continue embarrassing yourself.

Still probably not Babe Ruth.

+++++1

[cardinalcollector]

Originally Posted by Dead-Ball-Hitter

+++++1

You realize that you are commenting on a spat from 4 1/2 years ago, right?

[irv]

Originally Posted by irv

Looks like these are still in circulation. With Ruth cards being hot lately, I'm sure there are some others getting some pretty decent prices. For those that don't know about this card, you might appreciate this thread?
I wrote the seller to let him know.
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/194740985369...75.c101224.m-1

$856 U.S or a $1,073 CDN dollars realized. I hope the buyer sees/is told about their purchase before they get to excited thinking they are going to have a huge windfall in 5 to 10 years.

[Frank A]

In ten years, it will be listed as a super rare misgraded card that is not Babe Ruth and get $5000.00 for it.

[Steve D]

Another copy of this mis-identified card has just shown up in Heritage's Sep 29th weekly sports auction.

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c...umbnail-071515

I emailed Heritage and pointed them to this thread.

Steve

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Steve D

Another copy of this mis-identified card has just shown up in Heritage's Sep 29th weekly sports auction.

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c...umbnail-071515

I emailed Heritage and pointed them to this thread.

Steve

Sometimes a smaller company can be better, when you only have two cataloguers and they pretty much know their stuff! From our Spring Pre War auction:


Lot # 285: 1935 Muratti CIgarette Olympischen Spielen #38 Poynton/"Babe Ruth" PSA 5 EX


It is pretty common knowledge that the gentleman featured in the card is NOT Ruth, but rather Poynton's coach . Frankly it doesn't look very much like Ruth. Anyway the card still enjoys notoriety and can still be found in incorrect slabs like this one. This is a heckuva PSA 5 with nice centering and only minor to light corner wear and light toning.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Sometimes a smaller company can be better, when you only have two cataloguers and they pretty much know their stuff! From our Spring Pre War auction:


Lot # 285: 1935 Muratti CIgarette Olympischen Spielen #38 Poynton/"Babe Ruth" PSA 5 EX


It is pretty common knowledge that the gentleman featured in the card is NOT Ruth, but rather Poynton's coach . Frankly it doesn't look very much like Ruth. Anyway the card still enjoys notoriety and can still be found in incorrect slabs like this one. This is a heckuva PSA 5 with nice centering and only minor to light corner wear and light toning.

And even with your accurate writeup, the bidding still got to around $150. Either some folks just like the Ruth name on the slab's label, or they got the hots for swimming suit clad Dorothy Poynton.

Brian

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

And even with your accurate writeup, the bidding still got to around $150. Either some folks just like the Ruth name on the slab's label, or they got the hots for swimming suit clad Dorothy Poynton.

Brian

I'll be honest I figured it would still sell for more due to the notoriety, I just wasn't going to pretend it was Ruth.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Sometimes a smaller company can be better, when you only have two cataloguers and they pretty much know their stuff! From our Spring Pre War auction:


Lot # 285: 1935 Muratti CIgarette Olympischen Spielen #38 Poynton/"Babe Ruth" PSA 5 EX


It is pretty common knowledge that the gentleman featured in the card is NOT Ruth, but rather Poynton's coach . Frankly it doesn't look very much like Ruth. Anyway the card still enjoys notoriety and can still be found in incorrect slabs like this one. This is a heckuva PSA 5 with nice centering and only minor to light corner wear and light toning.

I remember seeing that auction, and being happy to see a seller honestly pointing out that it isn't Ruth on it.

Steve