O/T - best all time

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Posted By: steve

New Years time, sitting around the TV watching all the bowl games, the discussion moves to these wonderful topics.



1 - Best Baseball player of all time. I know this has been talked about more than a lot. Answer = Babe Ruth Honorable mention to several others.



2 - Best Running Back of all time. Only hold back is longevity, but Mr. Bo Jackson is my vote. All time highest Yds/carry with 5.4 Has most season leading "NFL Long Rushes" with 3 out of 4 years with the longest run from scrimmage in the entire NFL. Has highest TD per carry of any back ever. This guy was a MONSTER! With longevity figured in, Jim Brown, Barry Sanders and Walter Payton.



3 - Best Athlete of all time. Again Mr. Bo Jackson. Very close behind Thorpe, Chamberlain, Ruth and Jordan.



4 - Most loved great athletes = Gehrig, Walter Payton



What your picks ?



steve

edited - greatest QB = Joe Montana

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Bo Jackson? Are you permanently stuck in 1989?


I guess that's a personal choice.

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Posted By: Steve F

Cobb
Payton
Lance
Kournikova?

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Dude, Bo Jackson? Are you kidding me?



Best running back of all time is Jim Brown, period. He averaged 30 more yards per game than Bo and also had one year in which he averaged 6.4 yards per carry which is off the charts. And he led the league in rushing 8 times!



Best baseball player is a much tougher call. I'd say Ruth or Cobb but there are so many variables at play here.

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Posted By: howard

Bo Jackson is one of my favorites and may have been the best athlete ever but he was not a huge TD producer in the NFL. There are plenty of backs w/better TD per carry rates than Bo.

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Posted By: Lance

Steve,

Thanks for the vote, but I'll vote for Armstrong!!!
LOL.

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Posted By: Rhys

The best Baseball player of all time is Babe Ruth with only perhaps Cobb even being in the discussion. You can make arguments for people like Ted Williams because of his missed years for service and those are valid arguments, but at the end of the day it is going to be Babe Ruth.

Best Football player of All-Time is Red Grange (prewar) and Jim Brown (postwar).

Best Athlete of all time (all around) is Jim Thorpe.


Added note, there are only 2 people have entered a professional sport and done things which nobody has seen before, smashed records at an unbelievable level and single handedly changed their game forever. Those two athletes are Babe Ruth and Wayne Gretzky. Like Hockey or not, Wayne Gretzky might have been the greatest player compared to his peers that ever participated in any major sport.

Rhys

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Posted By: Fred C

1 - Best Baseball player of all time. BABE RUTH



2 - Best Running Back of all time. Jim Brown, but Eric Dickerson could have been really really great if he wasn't such a numnut. Bo Jackson? He does have one of the more memorable runs that I can recall. I also liked it when he bowled Brian Bosworth into the endzone to complete a run. That game was headlined as Boz Vs Bo. Boz didn't know Bo until that play. Oh gawd, nobody remembers that game...

3 - Best Athlete of all time. How do you measure that? If it's in gold medals (and heart) then my pick is Michael Phelps.

4 - Most loved great athletes: Kournikova? Was it most lusted or loved? Hmmm.... this probably depends upon which country you're from... Canada = Gretzky; Brazil = Pele; US = too many to chose from...



5 - Best hockey player - The Great One

6 - Best basketball player - Jordan with Wilt and Bill Russell right behind.

7 - Best golfer - uhhhh, Tiger

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Posted By: peter ullman

does anyone know where/what Bo Jackson is doing these days! Is he a fat...toothless fisherman like the Fridge?

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Posted By: writehooks

My 2 (Canadian) cents worth from The Great White North:


1. Best ball player: Ty Cobb
2. Best pitcher: Sandy Koufax
3. Best reliever: Mariano Rivera
4. Best running back: Jimmy Brown
5. Best quarterback: Joe Montana
6. Best basketball player: Michael Jordan
7. Best soccer player: Pele
8. Best hockey player: Bobby Orr
9. Best golfer: Jack Nicklaus
10. Best tennis player: Pete Samprass
11. Best athlete: Muhammad Ali
12. Most beloved: Muhammad Ali

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Posted By: Michael Steele

Best Baseball Player = Babe Ruth



Best Running Back = Not Bo Jackson for sure. I barely remember he played Football. Now if he had not been injured and played 8-10 years, he could be considered but my vote is Jim Brown.



I will skip category 3 and 4. Too subjective although really, this topic can only be considered subjective.



Wayne Gretzky: I see a few Hockey votes for him and that is well and good and he did "smash" records but for me, Robert Gordon Orr was the greatest bar none. Orr made the players around him seem like they were standing still. If he had been a forward he probably would have scored as much as Gretzky. In relation to an athlete in a given era, Orr was just so much better then those around him they seemed like minor league players. This could be considered the greatest athlete.



But it's all subjective

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Posted By: Rob D.

"Best Want List": Goes without saying

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Posted By: Joann

Best baseball - Ruth. Good arguments for Cobb, but Ruth changed the game.

Best running back - Barry Sanders. Probably just because he was a Lion so I got to see him on TV every week for years, but ... wow. Could he change direction on a dime. It was a sight to see.

Best athlete - Maybe Babe Didrikson. Maybe Michael Jordan. I know MJ's baseball and golf careers never rocked anyone, but he wasn't all that bad either.

Most loved - Ripken should make the list somewhere. Muhammed Ali may be #1 these days.

Joann

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Posted By: Scott T

Baseball...Oscar Charleston

Basketball...Dr. J. (ABA Years)

Football RB...Jim Brown


RE: Bo Jackson...he was the greatest Tecmo Bowl football player of all time!

Scott

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Posted By: Jim Thierfelder

I will stick to the original categories listed and offer my 2 cents:

1 - Best Baseball player of all time. Ty Cobb hands down; nobody in his era held a candle to him.

2 - Best Running Back of all time. Walter Payton's grace and power are unmatched.

3 - Best Athlete of all time. This is tough because it is impossible to compare athletes accross different sports so using the criteria of which athlete is most recognizable I would have to go with Tiger Woods. He has done more for his sport than any athlete ever with the only possible exception being Babe Ruth.

4 - Most loved great athlete = I would have to say Mickey Mantle. Despite all his flaws that became apparent over the years or maybe because of them he is dearly loved by countless fans of the 50's and 60's and beyond. I might have mentioned Brett Favre in this post as the love for him went beyond just Packer fans, but he has been an ass of late in my opinion.

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Posted By: Jason L

Steve,

I have to say that I find it very difficult to disagree with anything you said in your post.



Writehooks,

I have to admit that I'm not sure I understand much of your post. Hockey, soccer and golf aren't actually sports, so those entries seem way off-topic. And Your last two entries (#11 and 12), those just don't make any sense whatsoever. Boxers aren't athletes and I really don't think anyone truly loves Ali. What you tend to see is pity. Even if you're Canadian, it's ok to convert the value of your opinion into US dollars.

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Posted By: Rhys

One comment on the Gretzky thing. With all due respect, comparing him to any other hockey player is like the Babe Ruth argument. He is so obviously the best hockey player of all time that people sometimes like to go against the masses and look in another direction. Dont get me wrong, I think Bobby Orr revolutionized the way defense is played in the NHL and is the second best player of all time. But to say Orr was better because he made those around him better is ignoring that Gretzky did the same thing, but to higher level, (look at his assist totals) and made his team better by taking a crappy team and winning twice as many Stanley Cups as Orr despite playing in an era with more teams. He held 40 NHL records when he retired. He is pretty much the reason anyone South of Canada cares about Hockey (or at least used to) and is the only athlete besides Jackie Robinson to have his number retired by an entire league. I really like Bobby Orr, but this argument is not even as close as the Cobb Ruth argument.

I know that most people on here dont care about hockey, but being from Maine and growing up with all things Hockey, this to me is the easiest choice in the entire world of Sports debates.

Rhys

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Posted By: steve

Probably the single most stat in ranking a football running back is Yds/carry.

Bo is number one.
Brown is number 2
Sayers, Sanders, OJ, Payton are all right behind.

And Bo could bust em like none other (sorry, never saw Brown).

steve

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

But Bo carred the ball about 20 percent as many times as Jim Brown did -- and only had a .2 higher yards per attempt. Let's see how well Bo would have done with all that extra wear and tear on his body.

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Posted By: Anthony S.

Bo played in 38 games over a 4 year period. That's the equivalent of having played less than 2 and 1/2 full seasons (or slighty more than 3 full season when Brown was playing 12 game seasons).

He had 2,782 rushing yards in his career. Dickerson had 2,105 rushing yards in one season (1984).

If you want to argue that Bo was the most spectacular RB of all-time, that may well be true, but when we say "best of all-time" it usually implies over a significant period of time.

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Posted By: steve

I give up - you all win. J. Brown is just the "stock" answer. But thanks for your input and comments. By the way, yes, I did forget about E. Dickerson - top notch runner for sure.

I remember a day at the races at Santa Anita. Packed like sardines waiting to get in a bet, the entire area stopped, all heads turned, it was like time stood still. On the big screen Bo took the handoff - just overmatched all the seemingly Pop Warner players and juked, changed directions, kicked it into overdrive and outran everyone - into the end zone on a 90+ yard run.

The crowd roared ! and roared! and roared! Everyone forgot they were at the races. Never seen that kind of energy OUTSIDE of the venue.

steve

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Posted By: Michael Steele

Rhys,

I do respect your opinions on Gretzky but I disagree choosing him over Orr. Gretzky had plenty of help with the Oilers feeding him the puck as he hung around the opponents blue line being very offensive. Great, great skills but he is #2 behind Orr.


I don't want to turn this into a hockey debate as I love the sport just as much as Baseball and grew up in New England but there are very few Hockey followers on this board so we will agree to disagree.

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Posted By: David Goff

These are tough...

Best Baseball Player--I would have to say Ruth simply because he was a the greatest hitter and also a pretty good pitcher

Best Running Back--Barry Sanders. Played only 10 years and is 3rd on the all-time rushing list. If he would have played a few more years, would be #1.

Best Athlete of All-time--That is hard choose just one. If I had to choose, I would go with Jordan, Gretzky, Ruth, Ali, Lance Armstrong, and Secretariat.

Most Loved Athlete--The Great One...Mohammad Ali. Being from Louisville, I have to pick him.

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Posted By: John K

Baseball: Ruth, Ted Williams (2nd)
NFL Running Back: Jim Brown, Gale Sayers (2nd)
Hockey: Orr, Howe (2nd)
Quarterback: Brady
Basketball: Bill Russell, Jordan (tie)
Boxer: Ali
NFL Defensive Player: Dick Butkus
Pitchers: Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove (2nd)
Rock Star: Jagger, Dylan (tie)

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Bo jackson... had to check my calendar to see if yesterday was the end of March...


Baseball - Wagner. For certain.

Running back - Jim Brown, but I wanted to say Bronco Nagurski

Best Athlete - Michael Jordan, Thorpe for second place.

Most Loved - Lou Gehrig.




Bo jackson... golly, I was a big fan of Lydell Mitchell, liked Tom Matte, too. I can't see Bo in the top 50.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I have to disagree with Scott about Bo Jackson being the best tecmo bowl player. On defense Lawrence Taylor was dominating and on offense Cap Boso was absolutely unstoppable,you couldnt get to the QB fast enough to stop the pass to him and even if you called that 10 yard out and across pattern and double covered Boso he always caught the ball. He was an absolute machine at 6"4 232 playing TE....In my opinion the greatest football player ever

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Posted By: Bob Manning

Guys;

Best baseball player? No votes for Satchell Paige? Josh Gibson? Sure enough, the Babe changed the game, and was surely the best pitcher turned day-to-day player, and is my own choice too. But the players denied the opportunity to play (by the likes of Cap Anson, e.g.) deserve mention here. I've just re-read "Only the Ball was White," and would give just about anything for Satch, or Judy Johnson or Oscar Charleston or Cool Papa Bell to have been able to do what they did so well, in the majors. They may not any of them have been The Best, but some of them must have come close.

Bob

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Posted By: Stephen Mitchell

1 - Best Baseball player of all time: Babe Ruth
2 - Best Running Back of all time: no opinion
3 - Best Athlete of all time: Jim Thorpe without a doubt in my mind (decathlete, major league baseball player and major league football star)
4 - Most loved great athlete: Lou Gehrig

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Posted By: Donny Muth

Best Baseball Player = Ty Cobb ... Babe Ruth may have changed baseball into a HR hitters' game (which I wish never happened), but Cobb had a greater impact overall in my opinion.

Best running back = Walter Payton.

Best quarterback - Montana...but maybe Peyton Manning will overtake him as best QB ever.

Best athlete - Jim Thorpe, but actually probably one of the almost forgotten negro league players... pick one.

Most loved athlete - Michael Jordan

Oh and the Best non-human athletes = Secretariat(thoroughbred race horse) and EJ's Douglas(greyhound) although I am tempted to vote for Great Son(greyhound) instead cause I'm biased.

---Donny

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Posted By: Alan U

Baseball: Ruth, but Mays and Aaron can be in the discussion

NFL Running Back: Sayers, most fun to watch anyway

Hockey: Gretzky -- Orr for defenseman

Quarterback: Elway

Basketball: Jordan

NFL Defensive Player: Alan Page

Added: Most loved: Tiger

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

"Added note, there are only 2 people have entered a professional sport and done things which nobody has seen before, smashed records at an unbelievable level and single handedly changed their game forever"

I get what you're saying, but I think you need to change that number to 3. Not only did Jackie change the game forever, he changed the world.

That said, best baseball player is Babe Ruth, hands down.
Best running back: Jim Brown, I guess.
Best athlete: Jim Thorpe
Most loved: I don't even think there's anyone close to Muhammad Ali, he's a worldwide icon who transcends sports.

-Al

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Posted By: PC

I don't think Bo Jackson can be called the best running back ever (he might have been but for his hip injury), but Bo has my vote for best athlete ever.

Jim Thorpe and Jim Brown are on my list too. So are Jackie Robinson and Dave Winfield, both of whom often get overlooked. It is interesting to note that SI selected Bo as the third greatest "college" athlete of all time behind Brown and Robinson.

But Bo Jackson is the only guy I am aware of that lettered in three sports in college (football, baseball, track), won a Heisman, and was selected as an MLB All-Star and for the NFL Pro Bowl. If you need more evidence of Bo's versatility, he was a state high school decathlon champion (twice). He ran the 40 in 4.1 seconds, the 60 in 6.18 and the 100 in 10.39. And that for a guy weighing over 200 pounds.

Thorpe is close, and probably the best outside the modern era. But if time travel were possible and you could put Thorpe and Jackson head to head, I think Jackson runs circles around Thorpe and then runs over him.

My Top Four:
Bo Jackson
Jim Thorpe
Jim Brown
Jackie Robinson

Honorable Mention:
Dave Winfield
Deion Sanders


Here's an interesting guy -- Hale Irwin. Obviously not in the same category as Jim Brown, but in addition to being a great golfer, he was also an all-conference football player at Colorado. A rather unique combination. Way to go Hale!

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Posted By: Anonymous

Best Baseball: Willie Mays

Best Football Back: Barry Sanders

Best Hockey: Bobby Orr

Most Loved: Ali - nobody is even close on that one

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Posted By: D. Bergin

1 - Best Baseball player of all time - Willie Mays though I prefer to rank by eras in baseball. It might be blasphemy but if it weren't for the 'roids his nephew Barry might make this list.



2 - Best Running Back of all time - Barry Sanders. Apologies to Jim Brown, Walter Payton and Ladanian Tomlinson which I'd have no argument with. I also don't think Yards per carry is the ultimate gauge of a running back either. That is often a product of the Offensive line. Just look at a guy like Walter Payton.........he was a very consistent runner, yet his YPC varied widely throughout his career. That is largely attributable to the quality of the O-line during each particular year.



3 - Best Athlete of all time - Absolute prime years I'd say Bo Jackson. Longest Runs and longest HR's in two differant sports. Spectacular for a brief period of time. Over the course of a longer career I'll go out on a limb and say Carl Lewis.



4 - Most loved great athletes - Muhammad Ali, Michael Jordan



5 - Best Hockey Player - Gretzky. I didn't see Orr play so I can't argue but anybody who thinks Gretzky just waited by the blue line in the offensive end never saw him play. He often played on the Penalty killing team and had more end to end jaunts then anybody can count. Product of his team-mates? He continued to pile up ridiculous stats out of his prime when he left the Oilers and joined the then bottom dwelling Kings, turning them around.


6 - Best Boxer - Sugar Ray Robinson