Rare PCL Type Cards

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Posted By: Bruce Dorskind

We have a question for the Board's PCL experts

This evening 19th Century Only has an auction which includes four examples
of the 1913 Oakland Oaks team issue.

The auction examples are the only ones that have ever been graded.

In fact, in more than a quarter century of type card collecting, this is the first
time we have seen this issue in a public auction.

Can anyone provide additional detail about these cards, their history or
recall collectors other than the consignor, Harold Bud Brennan, who had
examples in his collection or a dealer who handled these cards?

Any guesses as to what the final price will be would be interesting to hear

Thanks in advance.


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

It's tough to guess when these cards have no track record, but I assume they won't be cheap.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave F

Bruce

The Oaks won the pennant in 1912. Bud Sharpe was the manager. Carl Mitze was a co-manager of the club in 1913. Now, there is a card of Mitze, but it makes me wonder if the set was actually produced in 1912 following them winning the pennant and if Mitze may have just been one of the players on the team that year. The other co-manager from 1913 is not in the set of cards..so I have a hard time believing they would have just put out a set with one of the co-managers in 1913. So, I say 1912 issue following the pennant...at least for now.

There are 20 known cards...but I'm not sure how many have survived.

Checklist-

O.C. Abbott
Harry Ables
Jesse Becker
W. Cook
Bert Coy
Rube Gardner
Howard Gregory
Gus Heitling
Jack Killilay
Bill Leard
William John Malarkey
Carl Mitze
John Ness
Henry Olmstead
Cy Parkin
W.J. Pearce
Heine Pernoll
Ashley Pope
George Schirm
Elmer Zacher

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave F

Also, I had one of these at one time a couple years ago. I picked it up raw off ebay and ended up selling it raw as well to someone on the B/S/T, unfortunately I had a computer crash since and lost all my scans from that far back...and I can't even remember for sure which player it was. I do remember it was a real beater. Can't remember who bought it from me either...but they probably got a deal.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

The cards are very scarce. I believe a well known west coast collector might have either the full set, or close to it. I have heard of another cache of these out there in a very long time collected collection. I picked mine up several years ago in a trade (glad I got one) and I know a few other board members have one too. They just made the SCD a year or two ago...(this guy looks kind of pitiful if you ask me)

[Archive]

Posted By: Mark Macrae

Bruce,
These are correctly labeled as 1913. While Carl Mitze's involvement with Oakland ranged from 1910 to 1922 (except 1915 & 1916 when he was associated with the Vernon/ Venice Tigers), he would be among the last players that I would use to pin down the year of issue. Ody Abbott, Bill Leard, Henry Olmsted, Cy Parkin, and Ashley Pope only played for the Oaks during the 1912 & 1913 seasons, so theoretically that would narrow the set to one of those two years. Rube Gardner (13-18) & Jack Ness (13-15) started playing for Oakland in 1913, although each played a few seasons. Ducky Pearce played for Oakland in 1910 & 1911, but did not play in 1912. He returned to the club in 1913 and played in 17 games. However George Schirm, Jesse Baker each played for Oakland ONLY during the 1913 season. Until someone can come up with a better theory, I'd classify it as 1913. The cards are tougher than E-99, but not as tough as many other PCL issues. With regards to cards being on the market, I've owned numerous examples over the years. As recently as 18 months ago, I offered a near set to customers that receive my sales list, which includes you. The cards that were in that group topped out at VG-Ex, so they probably didn't meet your condition requirements. Good luck in securing one for your Type collection...

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave F

1913 it is.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian

Oakland Oaks (1913 Pacific Coast League) Previous year / Next year

Represented Oakland, CA
Managed by Carl Mitze
Home games played at Oaks Park


Roster

milbID Player B T Ht Wt Born At
abbott001ody Abbott, Ody R R 6-2 180 1888-9-5 New Eagle, PA
ables-001har Ables, Harry R L 6-3 200 1883-10-4 Terrell, TX
alexan002wal Alexander, Walt R R 5-11 165 1891-3-5 Atlanta, GA
becker001jes Becker, Jess L 5-8 172 1883 Saginaw, MI
christ003j-- Christian, Tyler S R 5-11 180 1882-11-17 Sardis, MS
clemen002rob Clemens, Bob R R 5-9 163 1886-8-9 Odessa, MO
cook--002alb Cook, Al S R 6-0 165 1887 Chicago, IL
coy---001ber Coy, Bert L L 5-9 165 1876-3-24 Toledo, OH
crisp-001jos Crisp, Joe R R 6-4 200 1885-7-8 Higginsville, MO
drucke001lou Drucke, Louis R R 6-1 188 1888-12-3 Waco, TX
gardne001lut Gardner, Rube 1883-11-5 Huntington, TN
gray--003wil Gray, Dolly L L 6-2 160 1878-12-4 Houghton, MI
gregor001how Gregory, Howie L R 6-0 175 1886-11-18 Hannibal, MO
guest-001art Guest, Art
hetlin001aug Hetling, Gus R R 5-10 165 1885-11-21 St. Louis, MO
jost--001oll Jost, Ollie
kaylor001the Kaylor, Ted 1887-11-23 Fort Wayne, IN
killil001joh Killilay, Jack R R 5-11 165 1887-5-24 Leavenworth, KS
kreitz001ral Kreitz, Red R R 5-10 175 1885-11-13 Plum Creek, NE
leard-001wil Leard, Bill R R 5-10 155 1885-10-14 Oneida, NY
lohman001cla Lohman, Zeke 1892
malark001wil Malarkey, Bill R R 5-10 185 1878-11-26 Port Byron, IL
markol001mau Markolowicz, Maurice
mitze-001car Mitze, Carl 1886-11-7 Marissa, IL
ness--001joh Ness, Jack R R 6-2 165 1885-11-11 Chicago, IL
obrien005tho O'Brien, Buck R R 5-10 188 1882-5-9 Brockton, MA
olmste001hen Olmsted, Hank R R 5-9 147 1879-1-12 Sac Bay, MI
parkin001r-- Parkin, Cy 1879 Visalia, CA
pearce001wil Pearce, Ducky R R 6-1 185 1885-3-17 Corning, OH
pernol001hen Pernoll, Hub R L 5-8 175 1888-3-14 Applegate, OR
pope--001ash Pope, Ashley 1889-12-22 Harnett County, SC
pruiet001cha Pruiett, Tex L R 5-8 176 1883-4-10 Osgood, IN
rohrer001joh Rohrer, John 1892-8-20 Hastings, NE
schirm002geo Schirm, George 1884-11-22
schwen001har Schwenk, Hal L L 6-0 185 1890-8-23 Schuykill, PA
seitz-002cha Seitz, Charlie 1884-8-14 Dayton, OH
stone-002dwi Stone, Dwight R R 6-2 170 1886-8-2 Holt County, NE
zacher001elm Zacher, Elmer R R 5-9 190 1880-9-17 Buffalo, NY