What to do if you found a T206 Wagner ?

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Posted By: Mike

I've never had a very large find of anything. What would you do if you found a T206 Wagner at a garage sale or collection ? What do the top dealers do if the owner doesn't know what he has ? a) Offer a price without telling the owner of it's value,if he accepts both are satified b) Asks what he wants for the card or collection which includes the Wagner ?, if a good price both are satisfied or c) Tell him the truth and let him know the value and offer a price for it, d) Tell him to get it graded and take it on a consignment. What do the top buyers do in this situation ? Inform or rob the guy ?

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

The top buyers would rob the guy. That's why they're the top buyers.

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Posted By: Trae R.

I can't say for sure, not being presented with the situation, however I am inclined to think Option B is a fair way to approach it, and maybe kick-back some cash to the original owner once you've sold the cards as a way of saying "thanks".

I could argue for any of the options though. I would enjoy having to make that decision, solely based on the fact that experiencing a find that included a Wagner would be great. Well, almost any find is great.




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Posted By: Paul

My late uncle was a fairly prominent collector/dealer on the east coast in the early to mid 80's, and generally went with options B and C, in that order. If the seller told him to "give me 50 bucks and get this stuff out of here," my uncle was happy to oblige. (One such transaction netted at least a couple of '54 Bowman Williams cards, as I recall.) If asked what something was worth, though, he'd provide an accurate appraisal, then offer a percentage of that.

Funny you bring up the "Wagner dilemma." I was pondering the same question after reading about that new T206 find.

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Posted By: Anthony S.

Hmmm. Am I theoretically faster than this theoretical garage sale seller?



Truthfully, some combination of C and D. I'd rather be able to live with myself than the money.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Famous baseball cards are rarely under priced by amateurs. Baseball cards are usually overpriced by amateurs, which means the prices are more often than not gouging the fellow unknowledgeable who accepts the prices. There's a difference between the seller setting a price before hand and asking what would be a good price. In the latter, the dealer buyer has more responsibility and shouldn't say a $2,000 is worth $2. In the former, the buyer is accepting a price the seller set. It is expected that a dealer is going to try to make a profit off of the deal, and there's nothing wrong with that. A dealer shouldn't rob the unknowledgeable. If someone offers you a real T206 Wagner for $1 (which will likely never happen), you should pay them more. More than likely someone will offer you a reprint for $10,000, in which case you aren't required to pay more. If someone offers you a real Wagner for $5,000 you should wonder if it's hot, as the price is ultra low but high enough the seller knows it's worth something.

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Posted By: Doug

I'd probably go for B. I would let the guy name his price and hopefully I could afford it!

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Posted By: JimB

IF I FOWND WON I WOULD ADVERTISE IT ON EBAY IN ALL CAPITOL LETERS TOO LET PEOPLES KNOW THAT I WANT TO MAKE ALOTTA MONEY.
JIMB

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Posted By: Andrew

HAHAHAHA Jim

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Posted By: barry arnold

Glad that you're tenured already, JimB.
Just teasin'

best,
barry

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

One of my pet peeves. If you can't wrap your head around proper capitalization, perhaps you should be doing something less constructive with your time.

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Posted By: Jim Dale

There was a story, true or not I don't know, about a kid from Sacramento CA that found a Mantle rookie at a garage sale. Story as I heard it was the seller wanted $20, kid offered $10 and seller refused. Kid runs home and begs dad for $10 so he could go back and buy card for $20. It took the kid 2 hours of chores to get that $10 and he went back to buy the card. Card later sold at major auction house for $55k.

True or not - I don't know. I also heard garage sell guy sued kid \ family. Not sure what happened.

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Posted By: Paul

I remember hearing a slightly different story on the news years ago, but it seems relevant to this thread. A store owner had a mint 67 Topps Seaver, unpriced, in his display case. In his absence, a boy came into the store and asked the rather inexperienced clerk how much it was. The clerk sold it to the boy for about five dollars. The store owner later sued the boy. I believe the store owner lost, as he should.

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Posted By: D Brown

There have been some lawsuits over similar issues in the art world, over paintings found at estate sales, or dealers buying very low and selling very high -- the one I'd remembered was the estate sale one, and the buyers ($60 for $1m worth of paintings) eventually won in court. But it seemed that the buyers were lucky, and didn't know that the paintings were worth that much. (That is, it wasn't a test of them misrepresenting their knowledge or the price of the work.)

This roundup of similar suits touches on a couple different cases --
http://antiquesandthearts.com/TT0-11-07-2000-14-27-53

and here's a good account of the $60 case, of Martin Johnson Heade paintings
http://www.fcassociates.com/ntrice.htm

25 years ago when I was a kid I'd put "cards wanted" ads in the local throw-aways and buy amazing stuff for pennies on the dollar. I felt guilty. But I was only 12 or 13.


David

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Posted By: Alan

I would consign it to Barry Sloate.

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Posted By: Trae R.

"IF I FOWND WON I WOULD ADVERTISE IT ON EBAY IN ALL CAPITOL LETERS TOO LET PEOPLES KNOW THAT I WANT TO MAKE ALOTTA MONEY."

Jim, priceless. Thanks for the laugh!




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All Things T206: http://www.T206.org
eBay Made Easy: http://www.PreWarAuctions.com
T205.org Coming Soon!

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Posted By: David Smith

Wouldn't it depend on what you were going to do with it??

Basically, you have two choices (at least I would). 1) You could add it to your collection or 2) you could sell it.

It would seem if you were going to add it to your collection, you couldn't pay nearly what it would be worth (if you could then you would have probably already bought one). Because of that, you might pay as much as you could afford and hope that didn't tip off the seller that it might be worth more (if you are giving the seller more than what they asked for). Or, you could give the seller what they asked and then later give them some more money.

If you were going to sell the card, then I would pay the seller what they were asking and then get it graded (by SGC), consign it to Mastro or REA and then split the money with the original seller. That way, you get a fair share of the profits and also give the original seller their fair share (and they don't get ripped off by shady dealers).

David

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Posted By: barrysloate

Thanks Alan, but that doesn't explain what you might have offered to the seller.

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Posted By: Dave Hornish

Too valuable to keep IMHO. I would sell it and pay off the house.

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Posted By: Steve

I'm fortunate in that I don't really need the money. I'd "loan" it (along with an E90-1 Cy) to the *Boston MFA and never lay hands on it again. It would be a hugely popular exhibit for the city.

*Across the street from the old Huntington Ave Grounds, home of the First World Series; 1903 Sox/Pirates. It eludes me as to the winner of those games

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

If I found a REAL T206 Wagner, I would have to immediately go home and change my underwear!!

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Posted By: larryhaven

I would give the guy a dollar for the card, then go home and sleep like a baby. Wake up the next day and sell it for 100K.

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Posted By: peter ullman

If I were to find a t206 wags I'd try to purchase the card for a price I could afford...and I'd keep it and cherish it until I die!

pete in mn

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Posted By: Matt

Wasn't there a story about 15 years ago of kid playing around with a metal
detector in his back yard. I believe in the Boston area -- found a tin box buried and in it, there was some toys and a Fair to Poor Wagner. He was on the news and a local card shop sold it for him for $10,000. Does anyone remember that news story?

Matt M.

P.S. I've already checked my back yard with a metal detector. Nothing.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

I remember somebody asking about that story in the "Collector Q&A" section of a nearly 20 year-old issue of BCM. The kid turned out to be lying.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

For outsiders' opinions, I asked my retired parents the question. My mom said "Depends whether or not the seller is an as*hole." My dad, who is a non-collector and non-dealer, said someone could buy it at that price and if it sold for a lot more could return some of the money. Both agreed you shouldn't cheat a newbie out of money, even if he set the price. Both also understood and appreciated that a dealer is buying to resell for a profit, and they had no problem with that. Both were commenting on the "Van Gogh for $5" and "T206 Wagner for $3" scenarios, not standard garage sale discounts on a shoe box of 1970s Topps.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

A lawyer would say that as long as there is no misrepresentation involved and the seller is legally competent to contract, the fact that the seller doesn't know the value of what he's selling is irrelevant. If he understands he is contracting to sell a baseball card to you for a price you are paying, that should be the end of the story. Doesn't stop people from being sore losers and suing but doesn't mean they are right.

As far as what I would do, sitting here today pondering your hypothetical I guess as long as there's nothing unlawful involved in the transaction I would pay whatever I could get it for and be fine with the deal.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: davidcycleback

repeat post

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Posted By: davidcycleback

As noted earlier, it is significant if the seller came up with and set the price. You had no influence over the price tag.

Most people overprice their items, so a real T206 Honus Wagner for $10 at a garage sale seems far fetched. More realistic is a reprint for $10,000.

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Posted By: brian p

I think the correct answer to "If you found a T206 Wagner" has already been answered in another thread--you would send it to BVG for grading and then have them auction it.

Brian

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Posted By: Jason L

If I could afford to buy it, I would.
Of course, if I could afford it, that means the seller doesn't know what he has, and should be happy with his asking price.

Would some guilt creep in?
absolutely.

Does that mean I just pass by and let some other schmuck scoop it up?
Absolutely not.

Would I tell him before I bought it?
I would like to think so.

Would I buy it for cheap, sell it for what it's worth, and then split the proceeds with the unknowing seller?
I would like to think so.

But I think we all know me well enough by now.
I would buy it for his cheap asking price, then go hide it in my attic so my grandson could sell it in 50 years from now.

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Posted By: howard

I would buy it for as little as possible and sell it for as much as possible. Presumably I am not the seller's baby-sitter.

I surely wouldn't offer more than he asks as that might raise a red flag and queer the deal.

Howard

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Posted By: Ken W.

I think this has been discussed before but:

If the "find" was made in a flea market or antique shop, I would swoop it up at the lowest price possible! No ethical problem at all - their business is old stuff, and they should know better. If at a garage or yard sale, I figure that I would be saving the card from the landfill. That's generally what happens to the "junk" that doesn't sell. No guilt here either because I am only a collector, and would not intend to profit off the item. Only cherish it. Turning right around and selling introduces the ethical dilemma, and I would probably offer to divide the money after the fact. Not sure what percentage I would give back, though?