1887 old judge

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Posted By: brock

Hi
I have the chance to buy 8 old judge cards and they dont look right to me kind. I was wondering if this looks good to you guys. They are glued to a piece of paper, but i dont think that affects them that much because they were blank backs to begin with. Thanks
Also what year is the card from, 1887 or 1888.

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Posted By: barrysloate

The card pictured looks fine to me...and it actually looks great.

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Posted By: fkw

Looks good, but might be skinned (photo front separated from the thick cardboard backing).

If its skinned its only worth a fraction of the normal value.

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Posted By: barrysloate

You can see some thickness in the picture, but it still could be rebacked. You would be buying the group at some risk.

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Posted By: Anonymous

So there no good then.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I think the Ewing and Mascot is good. But asking to authenticate something from a scan isn't foolproof. You can never be sure exactly what you are getting until you have them in hand. I would at least pursue it if it were me.

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Posted By: Matt

what do you mean "good" or "no good"? It seems everyone is saying it looks authentic, but it may be rebacked which means it won't command top dollar. I don't hear anyone saying it looks like a reproduction.

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Posted By: brock

Matt when i said no good, i meant dealing with the top value, so what do you guys think would be a good price to go on them, at least the ewing. Thanks for all the help.

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Posted By: peter ullman

if they're all skinned and attached to paper...I'd say 15-20% of value...if just glued to album and can be removed...35-50%.

pete in mn

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

It doesn't look skinned to me...possible reback, but you can never really tell for sure from looking at a scan. Even skinned or rebacked I think that card is still $400+.

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Posted By: Bryan Long

From my very novice point of view - I don't think the card looks skinned or rebacked, but like everyone said you can't really tell from the scan. Plus, it all depends who is selling them to you as well. What is the history? If the person is somewhat shady I can see rebacked cards being pasted into an album - but why would someone go to the trouble of rebacking a card only to paste them into an album unless it was done to fool someone?

.

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Posted By: Fred C

The front looks awesome. I can see some thickness to the card so it could just be glued to a page. It's hard to tell from a scan. In any case the front of that card is really really nice. If you don't want to buy them all or if you want to split the risk, let me know. I think you may have found a nice lot.

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Posted By: Joe_G.

Ewing is among the easier HOF OJs to come by with 11 poses. The 11th pose is Ewing with Mascot and was first issued in 1889, then again re-issued in 1890. The 1889 example is what you've pictured and is easier than the 1890 example. This pose isn't difficult but its popularity seems to command a premium over the other more traditional poses. Nice card that looks authentic to me although the camera angle you chose to share looks funny.

Assuming it is authentic with only some back damage from scrap book removal, I'd place the value around $750 - $1500. The wide range is due to a couple factors including the relatively thin market OJs have combined with how well the back holds up during scrap book removal. A faint stain with all original cardboard present being better than tearing-up the original cardboard off the back, etc. The card has a better than average image and could even command more than my upper limit if it's extraction from the scrap book went exceedingly well.

There are many OJ collectors on the board that would be curious what other cards the seller has to offer, myself included.

Best Regards,
Joe Gonsowski

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Posted By: brock

The others are, Smith,Mattimore,C.Smith,Kreic,Hanlon,Griffin,the Ewing,Fulmer + tucker. Theres also 4 girls in baseball clothes.

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Posted By: Joe_G.

Nice grouping of cards, some common, some more difficult, some more popular (HOFers), etc.

The Ewing & Hanlon are HOFer cards. If the Smith happens to be "Phenominal Smith" portrait card, it might be worth the most. The Fulmer & Tucker is a neat horizontal two player card that would be worth a small premium. Most of the others are likely common.

Best Regards,
Joe Gonsowski

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Posted By: davidcycleback

The key to judging if they're genuine in person is to look with strong magnification at the player image. The real Old Judges are real photos and have no dot pattern. A reprint or counterfeit will have a fine dot pattern, probably multi colors- like a modern card. 99.9 percent (or higher) of the reprints/fakes/counterfeits will have the dot pattern.

Far from definitive evidence of authenticity, but the scrap album glue commonly used in the 1800s tended to be thin and brown. Distinctly different than the thick, white Elmer's glue of today. 19th century wood glue on the back of a card or in an album often resembles tobacco juice or a coffee stain, and many collectors don't realize it's old time glue. They think the card back is dirty.

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Posted By: B.C.Daniels

"Yomass", Richard Masson can help you!


BcD

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Posted By: brock

Hello
Im going to go look at the cards, can anyone tell me how thick they need to be if there not skinned. Can you guys maybe compare them to a t206. Thanks

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

You will be able to tell if they are skinned because they will be paper thin.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Paper thin if skinned. Otherwise, thick, like a photo glued onto a piece of cardboard a bit thicker than modern baseball cards.

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Posted By: brock

Hi
These were at a auction, thats why i didn't give alot of information. The cards were not skinned i believe by what you guys said. Now for the price. The whole sheet(included 8 baseball players, 5 girl ball players and 6 girls in dresses) sold for $3,200 without bP so add another $320(without NY state tax) and then dont forget the grading fees. I believe the person at the auction payed way to much. What do you guys think. Also thanks for all the help, you all the best in the business. Thanks again

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Posted By: barrysloate

They are probably worth somewhat more than the $3520 he paid but probably not a bargain. The Ewing looked very nice, and if the Hanlon was equally nice you've got most of your money back right there.