SGC

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Posted By: Adam

Hi, I'm a newbie to the T206 set. Its has been about a month or so since I started collecting. My question is what do you guys think of SGC? I like the way they look encapsulated the best. Do you think they are reputable? I know alot about PSA but not to much about SGC. I sent in a couple cards to them and they seem pretty consistent with grades so far. Thanks in advance for the answers- Adam O.

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Posted By: Fred C

Adam,

You made a good decision to go with SGC. The holders are nice and the grading is pretty consistent. You'll probably find that a lot of the forum/board members here prefer SGC.

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Posted By: Ed Ivey

Reputable, professional, consistent, courteous, demonstrably experts. IMHO.

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Posted By: JimB

SGC is a great company and very consistent. Many collectors thing they are better than PSA, especially for pre-War stuff.
JimB

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

No knock on SGC, but in terms of T206 availability, PSA rules.

Search EBAY for T206 cards. As of now there are 333 PSA cards listed and only 135 SGC cards

Frank

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Posted By: leon

Frank E and everyone else is correct so far..(imo). I think one of the reasons you see more PSA T206's is because dealers are still wanting to maximize their dollars, and rightfully so, so they go with the mass appeal of PSA. I was speaking with a collector, but mostly dealer, yesterday, and it's obvious the PSA blinders for selling (and some collecting) are still there. I think most hard core vintage collectors prefer SGC though....as they are more consistent, more knowledgable, and more revered in the pre-war space. ..This board is a valuable resource for you so listen, ask questions, learn...and most importantly have fun....Good luck in the hunt..

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Posted By: Adam

Thank you guys for the info. I will be sure to check in often. I really can't thank you guys enough for the quick response! Adam O.

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Posted By: MikeU

"Re: SGC November 17 2007, 11:40 AM


No knock on SGC, but in terms of T206 availability, PSA rules.

Search EBAY for T206 cards. As of now there are 333 PSA cards listed and only 135 SGC cards

Frank"

It really makes no difference whether 333 or 135 cards are available. One thing you can count on for sure is that there will be more available than you can afford, regardless of the choice.

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Posted By: JimB

PSA still has the dominant share of some of the mainstream pre-war sets like T206 and '33 Goudey. I think it is mostly because they were in the game first and had a lot people gearing their sets toward the PSA registry, etc. If, for example, someone already had 300+ PSA graded cards toward a T206 set and want them all in the same type of holders, it is much easier to just go for PSA for the rest of them, rather than pay to crossover 300 cards. But starting a set new, one is not hampered by such a decision.

We still have not heard from the SGC cheerleading section: T206 Collector. I'm sure he will pipe in before long.
JimB

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Posted By: quan

can they stop grading vg/ex cards as g? i want correctly graded cards, not overly harsh ones. when i submit i find i'm in agreement with about 75% of their grading (there are always 2-3 headscratchers)...whereas with psa it's about 90%.

sgc kill paperloss and LIGHT wrinkles, but are very lenient with edgewear and corner wear...

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Posted By: barry arnold

your message title says it all:SGC

Do let me welcome you to the board and the wonderful world of T206s!!!
And remember the Monster will want you to quit.
Don't listen to it.

all the best,
barry

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Posted By: T206Collector

...as he posts one of my favorite sayings about T206.

SGC is great
I love their grading standards
and consistency

I think every post about SGC should be in Haiku form.

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Posted By: Bob B.

I'm more comfortable with SGC grading vintage cards. The holders look better as well.

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Posted By: Ken McMillan

SGC is awesome. I sent 5 cards in for the November grading special $8.00 per card and 20 business days. Got them back in a week. Now that is service!!!!! Can't do better than this one.

Ken

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Posted By: Robert Reiss

I submitted cards to PSA at Reading. There were 2 different submission levels so I could not combine to save on their ridiculous shipping fees. Funny thing... the cards that were supposed to take up to 30 business days to return arrived before the ones that were supposed to take 10. The 10 day ones were late, so I could envoke their "Guarantee", and have other cards graded (as long as I pay for shipping). Spending $100 to "Join" PSA was the stupidest use of my collecting $$$ ever. I can have anything graded by SGC, with no "Membership" fee, get consistent grades, and, in a better holder. If I was a huge customer,(Dealer), I'm sure I would be EXTREMELY happy with PSA, but I am just a collector....

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Posted By: jeffK

"SGC kills paper loss and light wrinkles."

This is true, and a good thing! Wrinkles often don't show up on a scan. If you see a card graded SGC EX, you can be confident that there's no paper loss or wrinkles. PSA, unfortunately, will put a EX grade on a card with significant damage to the back of the card.

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Posted By: JK

Jeff - I couldnt agree more.

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Posted By: cmoking

Over the last couple of years, I have grown to really appreciate how SGC grades T206 cards. In my opinion, they grade closer to what I expect than other grading companies. Availability can be a bummer sometimes, but there always seem to be some T206s around - in all holders and grades - so it doesn't take long for another card(s) to come up that you'll need.

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Posted By: Matt

"PSA, unfortunately, will put a EX grade on a card with significant damage to the back of the card."

Can we see some examples?

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Posted By: cmoking

Matt, is this one bad enough for you?

Mastro writes: ".....All aspects of its print are legible (excepting a small number of single characters interrupted by a small area of surface paper loss and accompanied by a raised, rubber-band blemish on the reverse), and the card's eye appeal is quite favorable"

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Posted By: dan mckee

WOW! that Lajoie is horrible! From what little I know about 3rd party grading, that should be a 2 in an SGC holder. At best a 5 in a PSA with qualifier MK?

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Posted By: barrysloate

The front looks like a 7, so maybe knock it down three grades to a 4.

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Posted By: dan mckee

No qualifier for the stain and paperloss Barry?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Does paper loss get a qualifier or just a lower grade? Okay, maybe a 4 is generous, let's call it a high end 3.

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Posted By: Jason L

I like PSA for modern (post 1950) and primarily for the Set Registry. The competition is a fun aspect of collecting. ...But otherwise, I tend to think that their grading is maddeningly inconsistent.

I think SGC is far better in terms of grading consistency and service, and I think their holders are far more attractive, particularly for vintage cards, so I get all my pre-1950 stuff graded by them. I also made an exception and have gotten all of my relatives' cards graded by them as well.

I will buy PSA pre-war occasionally and crossover.

I think PSA's membership charge is a disgrace.

I think so highly of SGC that I am going to be crossing over a card soon that will likely grade lower. It is, for me, a rather pricey card, and I am going to be taking a financial hit on it, but it will be graded accurately, look better in a better quality holder, and since I have no plans to ever sell it, my financial hit will be on paper only (pun?)...

Also, if SGC is ever at a show near you, I would recommend going over and submitting some items in person. Michael Goldberg, their service mgr, if he has time will sit with you and help you out and explain some of the nuances. Highly recommended service.

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Posted By: Rob

i'd love to add that lajoie to my collection! At least from the picture, the stain is easier to live with than a crease (my opinion) so I'd give it somewhere in the VG - VG/EX range. Nice corners and great color/focus!

Rob

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Posted By: dan mckee

I agree Rob, it is much nicer than mine and with great eye appeal. The technical grade I guess is the issue.

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Posted By: Matt

I believe that Lajoie is the symptom of a grading industry issue, which is that with a few select cards that are going to get a lot of face time (read Grretzky Wagner, this Lajoie, etc), the grading company will intentionally be very lax as it will result in a ton of free branding for them; I could almost see the submitter saying, "well SGC will give me a 50, so if you can do better, I'll go with you." While that is a huge problem on several levels, I haven't seen a PSA slabbed card worth less then $1k with a similar issue (of course, feel free to post 1 and prove me wrong ).

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Posted By: cmoking

From what I see and read, it isn't a stain, but paper loss and rubber band abrasion.

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Posted By: JimB

That is a gorgeous card! I agree with Barry; it would probably be a 7 if not for the back problems. I think knocking it to a 4 would be about right, but I am not sure PSA is being inconsistent with their standards here. I have seen a number of PSA 5s with paper loss. If SGC were to give this card a 2/30 for this card, I think that would be too harsh of a downgrade. I think people are conditioned to think PSA made an error here because SGC would be so harsh on an error like this. Generally the grading companies are in agreement on technical issues, but not always. Let's be serious here; that is an amazing card.
JimB

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Guys, anyone who has a 33 Goudey set in the Registry knows that is not a 7 front. That is an 8, easy. King, do you agree? I'm not sure I have many 7s that look nearly as good as that front.

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Posted By: cmoking

Jeff, as you know, its often tough to tell from a scan, especially the corners. My guesstimate is that the front/corners are PSA 6ish or PSA 7ish. Just my guess from the scan.

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Posted By: Eric Brehm

Here is the card in Mastro again:



For comparison, below are some other Lajoie cards in higher grades. To be honest, they all look about the same to me, but my eye is probably not as well trained as King's. I don't find the slight paperloss on the back of the PSA 5 to be terribly distracting; if I were in the market for a mid-grade Lajoie I might go for it if I could get it at a good price. On the other hand, if I ever wanted to sell the card at a later time, I would hate to have to apologize to potential buyers about the paper loss problem.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Considering the Lajoie is considered a classic rarity, it is not very difficult to find. It seems like there is at least one in every major auction.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Adam,

To get back to your inquiry...

1- I think SGC is the best of the graders.

2- PSA seems more popular among graded T206 collectors, but that dominance is waining.

3- I'd collect them ungraded. Take the money you'd have spent on grading, and buy more cards.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I agree with Eric that the 5 with paper loss has a front at least as nice as the 7 and 8s shown. As for the bit of paper loss on the back, I don't think a 5 is too high a grade as the front is clearly (to me) at least a 7-8.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

THis is one of my favorite over grades by PSA, a tough card in the set, the card has stains, paperloss and is miscut and still got a 6. Sadly the last time I saw it sell it went for $15,000. There is also a T206 AB back with a Miscut designation, a little education does help.



Lee