Dont look...live auction! But...brown???

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Posted By: Dave F

Does the seller really think these are brown Old Mills? Hope someone doesn't fall for that..

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Brown-Old-Mill-Cigarettes-Base-Ball-Series-Cards-2_W0QQitemZ290177404771

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Posted By: David B

It must be true. It came from a grandfather's collection and in protective sleeves. Probably found in the attic. (insert smiley here)

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Posted By: Dave S

Once again I'll be the bad guy, but why the #%@*% does everyone want to "out" every auction?! 2 Southern Leaguers that are listed in a manner that alot of guys might miss them. Scans are up..and I'd bet that the seller doesn't know the difference between a brown or black back anyway...
Am I the only one that thinks this way!?

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Posted By: Dave F

Dave, my only point was when someone lists these as Brown Old Mill's..there are those novices out there that will look at that premium for a Brown Old Mill and bid these up...I hope not...but you never know.

To me, this is one ebay should shut down for false advertisement big time. It wasn't meant to just out two common southern leaguers..which is all these are.

And not sure what you mean by listed in a manner everyone would miss them...they are in the pre 1930's section...not in electronics...

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Posted By: Dave S

Two common Southern Leaguer's..that someone doing a search for "SL'ers" wouldn't find! Not everyone searches SL'ers by "Old Mill". Scans of the backs are clearly up...and if you look at what that seller normally sells...(s)he probably thinks they are brown backs as most Old Mills appear. Don't think there is any attempt to con anyone here..
Everyone searches differently...Some people search by "T206" or "Southern League", not everyone searches by "Pre-War"...
Or electronics...that's cute!

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Posted By: Anthony

Since we're on the topic, I've heard of the rarer brown old mill back, but I've never actually seen one. Does anyone have a scan they'd care to share?

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Posted By: Dave F

Dave,

All it would take is one idiot thinking these are "legit" brown backs to begin with and your out as far as winning the auction to begin with. But hey, if I'm wrong for outing this one I'm wrong and Leon can easily delete this.

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Posted By: Chris

Not for nothing but I am willing to bet that everyone on this board looks in the singles(pre 1930)
so I don't see how this auction has been "outed". If the item is mislabled or in the wrong place than it's "outing" IMHO

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Posted By: Dave S

Dave, I'm not pushing any argument here, don't take it that way...

"All it would take is one idiot thinking these are "legit" brown backs to begin with and your out as far as winning the auction to begin with."

My point is that the scans clearly show what the cards..and the reverse's are..and I think most guys bidding on them are gonna know the difference! Not too many "idiots" bidding SL'ers...selling yes, bidding no!

Chris--agree that the majority might search pre-war, but think there are also quite a few that search more specifically. And tell me if I'm incorrect, but I've been under the impression that any current, un-ended auction was a no-no?

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Posted By: David B

Dave S. - If the cards were legit brown Old Mill Backs it MIGHT be considered "outing"? an auction. They are obviously not and should be "outed"? as such. Just my humble opinion.

David B

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Posted By: Chris

Dave, I'm not sure about any ongoing auction but if that is the case I would abide by the rules. I try not to out auctions anyway but like I said before I hit the singles pre30,30-39,40-49 along with a few others at least five times per day as I am sure most on the board do. If you refine the seach to be more specific it will still come up under single pre 1930. I think the original post was more for positive information than to out it. I do see your point.

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Posted By: leon

There is no rule against talking about current auctions but it's frowned on by most, including myself....

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Posted By: Dave F

Well I won't bring anything like this up again. I think its pretty ridicilious we chase down every T206 Wagner auction that comes up, but something like this that is cleary false advertisement right in the headline nobody sees anything wrong with it...other than I'm OUTING IT....wow.

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Posted By: Chris

I have to side with Dave F on this one. His intent was to warn those who may not know about this issue and I still do not see how this is outing when the cards are clearly listed in Singles Pre 1930.

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Posted By: leon

My comment really wasn't intended for you specifically, although in this thread I think it could be construed that way very easily. I think what you did was noble in trying to warn folks...I am talking about in general, outing auctions that are ongoing, is frowned upon....best regards

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Posted By: joe

I say let anyone bid on these auctions, they are not fakes. This is happening too much now.

Joe

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: Dennis W.

I had a bad experience with cards from this seller and their feedback isn't exactly stellar:

http://tinyurl.com/367t5n

They are an ebay drop seller. I'm finding that scammers are starting to use the drop sellers to protect themselves. The drop seller may or may not know anything about what they're selling and probably take the consignor's word as to what the item is. Notice that this seller has been hit with negatives for selling reproductions and misrepresenting items. Think about it, what better way to sell raw altered/rejected cards than to use a novice drop seller? The consignor would likely get paid long before the buyer gets his reject flip back from the grading company. He gets hit with a 25% commission but still comes out ahead and has no feedback worries. Heck, even a dishonest NARUed former ebay seller with rotten feedback can still sell on ebay using a drop seller. This doesn't mean that I think the subject cards are no good - I just think that they are at least misrepresented. I'd ask a lot of questions before bidding because these could be altered and/or have paper loss that don't show in the pics.

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Posted By: Dave F

I guess I thought the purpose of this forum was to help educate those that may otherwise fall for traps like this. When your advertising something as a brown Old Mill back...somebody could take a big hit as it would only take two people to bump these cards up to a 20x premium. I don't believe for a minute this seller doesn't realize they are black...they are obviously black Old Mills...I would imagine the seller just looked up values on backs and figured they were better off advertising as a brown Old Mill.

Anybody that took this as just an attempt to "out an auction" is crazy. I would have done the same thing if a seller had listed in their headline peidmont back with factory 42's if in fact they werent. This is the kind of crap I cant stand more than all the Honus Wagner cards that come up for auction.

However due to the response of some here claiming this was nothing but outing an auction...(good lord it was two southern leaguers, its not like there isn't 100 more on ebay, and in the pre-1930 section to boot) I will refrain from ever offering beware tips like this again...the hell with it, let someone get burned on these cards.

Next thing I'll wait to read is someone claiming these were my cards and I brought this up for self-promotion purposes.

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Posted By: Turner Engle

It looks like the auction was revised. The seller goes on to say "after intense scanning and review we found the two cards not to be brown, but black print."

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Posted By: Rob

Dave, thanks for the heads up. I think it was just fine (and quite nice of you) that you posted this thread, because it was being labeled as something more glamorous than it really is. Now, had it said "black old mill" and really it was a brown old mill back, then of course you shouldn't "out" that kind of auction IMO.

looks like the seller ended the auction early due to misrepresented item.

Rob

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Posted By: Scott

Anthony,

Unfortunately I'm still having problems with my scanner but in answer to the question OM Browns are clearly a different shade than the blacks. I'd liken the difference to something like the brown/black Lenox (which also happens to be a darn tough card).

And at least in our case OM Brown slimmer on the sides as well (I've heard that this is common of the browns).

Regards,
Scott

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Posted By: Anthony

Thanks Scott,


I'm colorblind, so my concern was whether, should the opportunity arise, I'd be able to tell the difference between the two OM backs, but I know from previous experience that I can tell the difference black Lenox from the brown Lenox, so that's good to know. I also hadn't heard that they could be slimmer. Good to know. Thanks.