E94 George Close Overprint's

[Archive]

Posted By: Tony Andrea

After seeing Dan's K's incredible looking Sgc-40 E94 Kleinow Overprint
Close Candies Pennant Winners card I started wondering.
Does anyone think Sgc might actually downgrade the E94's if they have the
Overprint stamp. Might be a stupid question but it seems to me the ones I've
seen look a grade or two better. I even snuck a peak at Leon's 10 card set,
(Fantastic cards by the way) and those even look nicer than the assigned grade.
Anyone??

Tony

[Archive]

Posted By: Bob

Definitely possible Tony. I have 2 graded by SGC which I swore would come back as 50s maybe an outside shot at a 60 and one is a 40 and one a 30. I just chalked it up to the fact SGC is brutal on E94s in general.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

Thanks for the kind words. I think the opposite. SGC has gotten a little better about not downgrading due to factory marks, such as these. They even don't downgrade for some very well known stamps on backs now.....especially the factory ones on certain T-cards...

[Archive]

Posted By: Tony Andrea

If I had one with the overprint stamp, I would think it would
be worth while finding out if it were graded before or after
they became more lenient on factory marks.
After seeing Dan Kravitz's Kleinow, and hearing Tbob say he
thought his would come back much higher than what they did, it
would be interesting to see if they would now upgrade those if
this was the case.

Tony

[Archive]

Posted By: Sean

I think originally SGC would downgrade T209's with the factory stamp on the back but now they note it on front.



Sdbh

[Archive]

Posted By: Bob

FYI, mine were graded prior to the new policy at SGC so I have to wonder. I also had the entire set of T212 1910 Obaks series of 150 graded by SGC (they promised 4 times in the last 2 years to add this set to the registry but never did) prior to their new policy. I have some gorgeous Obaks with that tiny purple stamp on the back which are 30s and 40s. It just cost too much to have the whole set re-graded even if I know that the grades would shoot up without the downgrade for the tiny purple stamps.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

I think they used to downgrade those T212's due to the factory marks on back.....just like this T209 pictured. I don't think they ever downgraded due to E94's having Overprints.....If you ever go to sell your T's it would probably be worth the investment to have them regraded as I am sure you will get many bumps up in grades. Until then just enjoy.....Those 150 series are really tough....

[Archive]

Posted By: Richard

For what it's worth, I think that SGC is just hard on E94s in general, regardless of overprint or no overprint. Jim B and I can come up with an example or two.

[Archive]

Posted By: JimB

Richard is speaking the truth. I think SGC is just tougher in general. One area where they definately seem more leniant is centering. I have seen at least three cards in SGC 40 which had 99/1 -100/0 centering. A small, inoffensive enamel chip in the white boarder of an E94 drops a card 3-4 whole grades, but 100/0 centering doesn't seem to matter.
JimB

[Archive]

Posted By: Bob

Jim- You are absolutely right. I can't quite figure out why tiny border chipping drops a card with a thud while 0/100% centering is tolerated. I also can't fathom why caramel cards seem to be more harshly graded then, say T206s, but they are.
tbob

[Archive]

Posted By: Tony Andrea

Jim, Tbob -
I've see some really incredible E94's w/ factory overprinted backs in
Sgc-30, 40, & 50 holders that boggle my mind, which is why I asked
Dan Kravitz last night if possibly he thought the Factory stamp affected
Sgc's decision on the assigned grade given on his overprinted Kleinow.
It looked much nicer than the 40 it was given. If by chance the card was
downgraded because of it, it shouldn't be.
Have either of you ever seen a high grade Sgc graded E94 factory overprinted card?
I would be interested in knowing what's the highest known in their holder.

[Archive]

Posted By: JimB

On the issue of chipping, it seems like there is a lot more tolerance for chipping on T205s where it is infinitely more offensive than on white boardered cards.
JimB

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Kravitz

I am actually about to send this to Rob Lifson. I think it is EX+, but for a small insignificant chip in the bottom center. Probably the right grade for SGC. They are way too tough!! It may be one of the nicest card images I own.

[Archive]

Posted By: Tony Andrea

Dan -
That's a 50 any day of the week for me.
No way should that reside in a 40 holder.
Beautiful card.........

Tony

[Archive]

Posted By: BD

Yes that is an easy 50 and sooooo close to a 60
the soft corners are the issue Dan coupled with the chip and staining not not just the chip.It would probably get a psa 5 as well but its a soft 5. Look at all the 5/6's I have/had in this set and you'll see as a comparison how tough both companies are on those big white bordered corners! I have discussed it at length before with Joe Orlando and the cutting crew.




BcD