crack/resubmit or crossover results

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Posted By: steve

I cracked out 6 cards to then send to PSA - not really crossover, but rather crack and submit:

1. was SGC 70 (5.5) .......... now PSA 7
2. was SGC 84 ( 7 ) .......... now PSA 7
3. was SGC 70 (5.5) .......... now PSA 6
4. was SGC 84 ( 7 ) .......... now PSA 7
5. was PSA 5 .......... now PSA 4
6. was old red CSA 7.5 ....... now PSA 6

Good news - none were deemed trimmed/other. My most valuable item went from a 5.5 up to a 7, woo hoo !

Bummer news - PSA gave a 5 years ago, now only a 4

Note - old red CSA's are iffy. I have had them go good and bad on regrade to PSA

Question: Anyone try to crack and resubmit GAI cards lately?

Steve.

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Posted By: peter ullman

wow...that's a very favorable outcome...congratulations! I only grade cards I intend to sell so I have no experience.

pete in mn

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Posted By: Bob

I crossed 4 GAIs to SGC. 2 stayed the same, two were bumped one grade. I cracked them out first.

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

Good work. Those results are pretty representaive of my experience on SGC to PSA. Consistent.

My last 3 GAI cards, not cheap commons, but HOFer's [last was a GAI 8.5 Waite Hoyt], have been rejected as trimmed by both PSA AND SGC. ouch!

Frank

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Posted By: Chris Mc

I cracked a Gai NM+ and it came back SGC 86 NM+
I cracked a PSA 60 and it came back SGC 40
I crossed a PSA EX/NM and it came back SGC 80 EX/NM
I tried to cross a BVG 7 NM and SGC said it was trimmed.
I also tried to cross a PSA 60 and it came back as trimmed.

Crossing for me has been hit and miss.

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Posted By: ScottIngold

Link to my post regarding this topic. I can speak more to it later on. Not sure if scans are still up or not.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1178195172/Results+from+resubmission+this+month...

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Posted By: steve

Thanks for result postings. If I had to pick one company to be most correct overall - SGC.

Generally, I see SGC sell prices go for about 10% less than PSA. Love it or hate it, I am done beating my head against the wall accepting the fact that the PSA set registry has inflated PSA's prices.

Years back I cracked an SGC 84, came back PSA 8. I've never had SGC card come back with lower PSA grade.

Question: To crack PSA and SGC is easy - screwdriver, twist & pop. But I have never cracked a GAI - the cases kinda overlap on side edges - whats the best way to crack GAI holders ?

Steve.

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Posted By: Chris Mc

Tin Snips on the four corners, piece of cake, can of corn, etc,etc.

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Posted By: James Feagin

I have noticed that SGC is getting WAY too tough on their grades. I'm looking for accurate grading, not the "toughest". I have mused crossing over my entire collection to PSA despite their troubles. Also, why can't a grading service come up with a back damage qualifier? I would much rather see a card with a NM-MT front and back damage get a SGC 88 (bd) or (PR) for paper removal than a SGC 10.

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Posted By: Chris Mc

I agree, and even less if the back is blank.

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Posted By: Zinn

I cannot agree with you more. I love the SGC holders but it is hard to justify keeping a card in an SGC 30 holder when I know that it would be a PSA 5. If you plan to sell you're leaving an awful lot of money on the table with SGC.

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Posted By: barrysloate

The wide disparity and inconsistency between one service and another is a condemnation of the whole grading process. I find reading this thread pretty depressing.

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Posted By: Dave F

I've done two submissions to PSA with SGC attempted crossovers.

First
T206 Jimmy Hart SGC 60 = PSA 5
T206 George Paige SGC 50 = Wouldn't meet my minimum grade of 4
T206 Clark Griffith SGC 60 = PSA 5
T206 Rube Waddell SGC 60 = Wouldn't meet my minimum grade of 5

Second
T206 Frank Chance yellow SGC 50 = PSA 3
T206 Bobby Wallace SGC 60 = PSA 5
T206 James Westlake SGC 30 = PSA 1

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Posted By: steve

I started with a woo-hoo & upbeat post. Couple nice comments afterwards. Whats depressing?

Accepting the effects of the PSA set registry is tough. To accept the play of one grading company vs. another seems to be another twist to our hobby that is here to stay, love or hate.

Plus its all good information to share with our fellow card junkies.

Steve.

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Posted By: barrysloate

It's depressing because the value of cards are entirely dependent on the grade assigned to them, and from this thread it is pretty clear that there are no objective standards. That to me is the definition of a farce.

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Posted By: Chris Mc

Don't like the big four , try this, guaranteed results:

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Posted By: Dylan

I think objectivity is even harder to come by when you submit cards for crossover. Id like to see those SGC 5.5 find there way into psa 7 slabs if they were still in there sgc slabs while sent to psa, thats what i find troubling, the pissing contests. Grade a card on its merits. And Barry I completely agree, the amount of money a single grade point higher can bring is sickening when you think about how subjective grading is, and how results are all over the board. I think the internet is partly to blame for this. Collectors cant inspect cards closely in person so have to rely on the grading companies to do this for them. Its an inperfect system but does pretty good most the time considering human beings are grading the cards. Maybe in the not too distant future cards will be inserted into a computer like device that grade the cards using infallible matthemitcal formulas that take all the subjectivity out of the process. Now i just got to get started writing the code for the program...

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Posted By: Scot Reader

E90-1 Joss (Portrait) PSA 4 ---> PSA 5
E95 Crawford PSA 4 ---> PSA 2
M101-4 Hendrikson PSA 6 ---> PSA 6
M101-4 Rudolph BVG 7 ---> PSA 7
T206 Kleinow (Boston) GAI 4.5 ---> PSA 4
15 Cracker Jack Wheat SGC 2 ---> PSA 2

I think the "Big 4" all do a reasonably good job; GAI and BVG may be slightly easier graders and may allow a somewhat higher percentage of trimmed cards to slip into holders.

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Posted By: Joseph

Are we supposed to feel good about this? Bad?

This is total horsebleep.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I'm going to say what I've been saying for years, and I know others who agree with me:

Let the graders provide a very vital service, and inspect every card for trimming, altering, coloring, and any other type of counterfeiting they can detect. Put the grading back in the hands of collectors and dealers. If the dealers overgrade, they will lose business. If they learn to do it properly, their businesses will grow.

I am not good at detecting subtle alterations but I can grade cards as well or better than any of those greenhorns. I just stopped doing it a long time ago because nobody will listen anymore.

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Posted By: Bob

I've got a lot of cards in GAI holders and can tell you two things: cards in GAI holders don't bring as much as PSA and SGC and also GAI does NOT grade more trimmed cards than SGC and SGC, in my experience. I have had cards come back as trimmed from GAI which are now sitting in PSA and SGC holders.
I think GAI gets slammed here a little too much, sometimes rightly so, but often unrightly so. You do get a little bit of a bump for cards with beautiful fronts and back problems from GAI but otherwise their grades are very similar to SGC. SGC murders back problems.

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Posted By: Marc S.

Although my experience is limited to a specific set, I can tell you without hesitation that GAI graded a myriad number of 1955 Bowman baseball cards that were funked with supremely by Gary Moser and crew.

~ms

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Posted By: quan

gai1.5 e97--sgc20
gai7 cj--psa5
gai7 cj--psa4
gai7 cj--sgc60
gai7 cj--sgc60
gai3 e90-1-psa3

i would be very careful about buying gai cards online with certain issues.

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Posted By: Zinn

"were funked with supremely" mean? Just curious.

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Posted By: James Feagin

I always thought it would be nice for a company to check for counterfeiting, trimming, alterations, etc; while encapsulating, but NOT assigning a numerical grade.

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Posted By: Joann

James hit on something upthread that has been percolating around the back of my mind lately too, namely the increasing reputation of SGC as being really tough and getting maybe increasingly tougher.

My uninformed and uneducated opinion is that if they keep driving their standards a little bit tougher and tougher over time, they do so at their own peril.

Sure it's nice to say you're the strictest, the most vigilant, or whatever. But people generally want balance, not either overly strict or too lenient. If they creep toward the edge of what people view as even being in the ballpark, I think people will turn to PSA despite some of their other issues.

I don't really care about grading, but to the extent it affects my collecting I prefer SGC overall. I like the lower prices, no club to join, holders look 1000% better, etc. But I have a few cards that I am thinking of having graded just for the protection, and I will probably send them to PSA. One has a tiny nick of paper loss, and I honestly don't feel like having SGC body slam it just so they can claim to be the baddest graders of all.

Yeah, it's mainly for protection of the card, but since I'm having it graded I would be insane to give up maybe a grade or two in the process. Heck I could get hit by a bus tomorrow - I don't want whoever ends up dealing with my cards to leave money on the table because I liked the look of the black holder better.

There. There's my mini-rant for the day. Thanks for bringing it up James. I know everyone here likes SGC because they are so tough, but it seems to me like maybe it's headed to being tough for the sake of being tough.

(This isn't to try to turn the thread into another PSA/SGC border war. The thread is about comparative grading tendencies, so I thought this was on topic.)

Joann

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Posted By: Marc S.

Zinn, reglossed, trimmed and basically not just simple, standard work on cards.

I know at least one auction house that will no longer accept 1955 Bowman GAI-graded cards on consignment because of the hundreds of cards that were graded by them that came from the same 2/3 submitters.

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Posted By: Martin Neal

These were cracked out before submitting:

Originally ----------------------------came back as

T205 Edward Grant Sgc 40-------------------Psa 2
T206 Chance (bat-off) Psa (trimmed)---------Sgc 60
T206 Gray Psa 2-----------------------------Sgc 70
T206 Crawford (throwing) Psa 2--------------Sgc 50
T206 Chase (dark hat) Psa (trimmed)---------Psa 5

I think Sgc got it right with the Chance and the Crawford. The Gray may have had a very slight bit of dicoloration from paper remaoval on the back, so Psa probably had it right. The Edward Grant was harshly graded by Psa and obviously the Chase was a total screw up for Psa.

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Posted By: JimB

James wrote:
"I have noticed that SGC is getting WAY too tough on their grades. I'm looking for accurate grading, not the "toughest"."

This is my experience too lately and it is getting frustrating. I will post scans later.
JimB

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Posted By: barrysloate

There is a mindset that those who grade the toughest are the best graders. But the same way cards are overgraded, it is likewise possible for them to be undergraded.

I too like SGC the best but I have to admit many of the cards I submit really do get hammered. Is there a happy medium?

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Well, given the fact that PSA cards on average sell for a modest premium over SGC cards, if SGC is a tougher grader (I am not completely convinced) then it would seem rational for all of you SGC boosters to cross all of your SGC cards to PSA. After all, you can get 10-15% based on the PSA-SGC price differential at the same grade and another 25+% if PSA bumps the card one grade.

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Posted By: James Feagin

I am thinking on it Scot. SGC's submission prices are also going up. Coupled with the recent shoddy customer service moments I've had with them, perhaps SGC is growing too large too quick.

James

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Posted By: John Kalafarski

Scot and Jim: I agree with your take on SGC. Also, let me say that many on this board have gone over to the SGC side equating the correctly perceived strict grading with honest/accurate grading. If they are too strict they will be doing both their customers and themselves a disservice. As a collector of '33 Goudeys who is finicky about corners, I don't deal with SGC. Also, the structure of the holder seems to highlight the shabby corners which don't count that much in their system. Also, customers quite often get in the middle of the competition war that the major graders seem to be having.